The Christian Threat

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crooked22

Member
Jan 8, 2004
187
0
0
You people that like to use the world liberal as sort form of insult, where does it steams froms? Is it from when President Bush use it to label Kerry as one, as if it was an insult? Im sure that works for simple minds that are naive. If by liberal you mean different of you, sure I might be.

Thing is, this "paranoia", that some people say I am talking about, its something that they would not see even if it came straight at them like a train with the headlights on. They are the perfect people because they have faith in something that requires faith for nothing. And you see that seeping into politics as Leaders ask for support with vague lies, and as they explain to us what kinda things are they doing. What is the answer? Support. What the hell is going on in Iraq, for example? Did anyone wonders about Powell's indisputable evidence of WMD's? What did they found? half a mobile laboratory and not more?

Besides, I can name horrible instances in which so called missionaries use a forced tactic to convert people in need. Ha, might as well just say that an Imperialist tactic would be to first send missionaries to a country which is to be conquered. You see, Christianity has a very bad rap that not everyone seems to see. Crusades, Inquisition... etc... Is a self righteous religion. It could stop being if it was practiced in a in-the-heart way. But is that need to convert, to take over, to have under, that makes it as dangerous for everyone who does not accept. And at the end of the day, is just like all religions: It has a peak of usable life, and then it becomes mythology.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Condor
And what did you do to advance the country this week? Another week goofing off in college?

Couldn't think of any substantive response huh?
 

racebannon

Member
Dec 5, 2004
67
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
There is no threat except in the retarded minds of the liberals that couldn't find anything else on Bush except steady church attendance.

You can't be a Christian and be a liar.

Bush is overtly religous, but he isn't a Christian.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
Originally posted by: racebannon
Originally posted by: Condor
There is no threat except in the retarded minds of the liberals that couldn't find anything else on Bush except steady church attendance.

You can't be a Christian and be a liar.

Bush is overtly religous, but he isn't a Christian.

Buah's "conversion" is an interesting one. He was Sent to investigate whether Conservative Christians were a legitimate Voting Block. He soon learned they were and shortly thereafter he was a Christian. Hmmm.
 

shoRunner

Platinum Member
Nov 8, 2004
2,629
1
0
the verse used as premise for the article is taken out of context. it does not mean that christians are supposed to condemn them. christians are specificly told not to condemn or judge others (see matthew 7). what it does mean is that those who do not believe are not saved(by God) so they are therefore the opposite, condemned. the bible is not a violence encouraging book. the same cannot always be said for the christian religion. its kinda funny when people that know nothing of the bible try to speak intelligently about it. they same can be said for the qur'an (koran). so many people that know nothing of these books read one thing and then immediately make huge generalizations. case in point:
A beautiful message of saving everybody? from who? From themselves, that?s whom! Of course, if you do accept their salvation, you will not be condemned, by themselves. Repent!
well its says your condemned so...that means that christians are supposed to kill you right??!! well thats crazy, lets kill them first!!

nowhere does it say that christians should try to force their beliefs on non-believers.

christians often times are generalized by those who are the most vocal and most visible(bob jones...etc). many of the belief's of these people are so away from the true belief's of the bible that it would be laugh-able were it not destroying the image that christians have in society. if you want to learn about real christianty read the bible.
 

shoRunner

Platinum Member
Nov 8, 2004
2,629
1
0
Originally posted by: racebannon
Originally posted by: Condor
There is no threat except in the retarded minds of the liberals that couldn't find anything else on Bush except steady church attendance.

You can't be a Christian and be a liar.

Bush is overtly religous, but he isn't a Christian.



you can be a christian and a liar....if you couldn't no one could be a christian. i'm not saying that bush is a christian....i know nothing about that.
 
May 10, 2001
2,669
0
0
They call themselves ?Evangelicals?, ?Fundamentals?, ?Missionaries?, ?Christians?, and other names that imply ?help?, ?salvation?, or ?mercy?. But do you know who they really are? What they really are? What their plans for YOU really are?
yes, as i am one, the plan is to allow each person to live out his own Godgiven free will while making sure that the strictures of society help those who play by the rules.

you can be a christian and a liar
Christians arn't better people, we just accept free salvation from faith Christ.
 

crooked22

Member
Jan 8, 2004
187
0
0
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
They call themselves ?Evangelicals?, ?Fundamentals?, ?Missionaries?, ?Christians?, and other names that imply ?help?, ?salvation?, or ?mercy?. But do you know who they really are? What they really are? What their plans for YOU really are?
yes, as i am one, the plan is to allow each person to live out his own Godgiven free will while making sure that the strictures of society help those who play by the rules.

you can be a christian and a liar
Christians arn't better people, we just accept free salvation from faith Christ.

Yeah, but because you become one, you not only accept salvation, you change your lifestyle. Even Jesus said that to the whore who was about to be stoned, (paraphrased) " you are forgiven, go and sin **no more**"

What weight it has if you keep doing things which are not right? or is it that once you are saved, no matter what you do you cant go to hell?

In other words, it is hypocritical to hold some one to some standards when the person is not even following them.
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
I dont' normally resturcted dead/old threads - but this artical is directly related, and counter points some of the orginal.

Christian right turns toward environmentalism

By BLAINE HARDEN
THE WASHINGTON POST



SEATTLE - Thanks to the Rev. Leroy Hedman, the parishioners at Georgetown Gospel Chapel take their baptismal waters cold. The preacher has unplugged the electricity-guzzling heater in the immersion baptism tank behind his pulpit. He has also installed energy-saving fluorescent light bulbs throughout the church and has placed water barrels beneath its gutter pipes - using runoff to irrigate the congregation's all-organic gardens.

Such "creation care" should be at the heart of evangelical life, Hedman says, along with condemning abortion, protecting family and loving Jesus. He uses the term "creation care" because, he says, it does not annoy conservative Christians for whom the word "environmentalism" connotes liberals, secularists and Democrats.

"It's amazing to me that evangelicals haven't gone quicker for the green," Hedman said. "But as creation care spreads, evangelicals will demand different behavior from politicians. The Republicans should not take us for granted."

There is growing evidence - in polling and in public statements of church leaders - that evangelicals are beginning to go for the green. Despite wariness toward mainstream environmental groups, a growing number of evangelicals view stewardship of the environment as a responsibility mandated by God in the Bible.

"The environment is a values issue," said the Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the 30 million-member National Association of Evangelicals. "There are significant and compelling theological reasons why it should be a banner issue for the Christian right."

In October, the association's leaders adopted an "Evangelical Call to Civic Responsibility" that, for the first time, emphasized every Christian's duty to care for the planet and the role of government in safeguarding a sustainable environment.

"We affirm that God-given dominion is a sacred responsibility to steward the earth and not a license to abuse the creation of which we are a part," said the statement, which has been distributed to 50,000 member churches. "Because clean air, pure water, and adequate resources are crucial to public health and civic order, government has an obligation to protect its citizens from the effects of environmental degradation."

Signatories included highly visible, opinion-swaying evangelical leaders such as Haggard, James Dobson of Focus on the Family and Chuck Colson of Prison Fellowship Ministries. Some of the signatories are to meet in March in Washington to develop a position on global warming, which could place them at odds with the policies of the Bush administration, according to Richard Cizik, the association's vice president for governmental affairs.

Also last fall, Christianity Today, an influential evangelical magazine, weighed in for the first time on global warming. It said that "Christians should make it clear to governments and businesses that we are willing to adapt our lifestyles and support steps towards changes that protect our environment."

The magazine came out in favor of a global warming bill - sponsored by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Joseph I. Lieberman, D-Conn. - that the Bush administration opposed and the Republican-controlled Senate defeated.

Polling has found a strengthening consensus among evangelicals for strict environmental rules, even if they cost jobs and higher prices, said John C. Green, director of the Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics at the University of Akron. In 2000, about 45 percent of evangelicals supported strict environmental regulations, according to Green's polling. That jumped to 52 percent last year.

"It has changed slowly, but it has changed," Green said. "There is now a lot of ferment out there."

Such ferment matters because evangelicals are politically active. Nearly four out of five white evangelical Christians voted last year for President Bush, constituting more than a third of all votes cast for him, according to the Pew Research Center. The analysis found that the political clout of evangelicals has increased as their cohesiveness in backing the Republican Party has grown. Republicans outnumber Democrats within the group by more than 2 to 1.

There is little to suggest in recent elections that environmental concerns influenced the evangelical vote - indeed, many members of Congress who receive 100 percent approval ratings from Christian advocacy groups get failing grades from environmental groups. But the latest statements and polls have caught the eye of established environmental organizations.

Several are attempting to make alliances with the Christian right on specific issues, such as global warming and the presence of mercury and other dangerous toxins in the blood of newborn children.

After the election last fall, leaders of the country's major environmental groups spent an entire day at a meeting in Washington trying to figure out how to talk to evangelicals, according to Larry Schweiger, president of the National Wildlife Federation. For decades, he said, environmentalists have failed to make that connection.

"There is a lot of suspicion," said Schweiger, who describes himself as a conservationist and a person of faith. "There are a lot of questions about what are our real intentions."

Green said the evangelicals' deep suspicion about environmentalists has theological roots.

"While evangelicals are open to being good stewards of God's creation, they believe people should only worship God, not creation," Green said. "This may sound like splitting hairs. But evangelicals don't see it that way. Their stereotype of environmentalists would be Druids who worship trees."

Another reason that evangelicals are suspicious of environmental groups is cultural and has its origins in how conservative Christians view themselves in American society, according to the Rev. Jim Ball, executive director of the Evangelical Environmental Network. The group made its name with the "What Would Jesus Drive?" campaign against gas-guzzling cars. It is focused on reducing global warming.

"Evangelicals feel besieged by the culture at large," Ball said. "They don't know many environmentalists, but they have the idea they are pretty weird - with strange liberal, pantheist views."

Ball said that the way to bring large numbers of evangelicals on board as political players in environmental issues is to make persuasive arguments that, for instance, tie problems of global warming and mercury pollution to family health and the health of unborn children. He adds that evangelicals themselves - not such groups as the Sierra Club or Friends of the Earth, with their liberal Democratic baggage - are the only ones who can do the persuading.

"Environmental groups are always going to be viewed in a wary fashion," Ball said. "They just don't have a good enough feel for the evangelical community. There are landmines from the past, and they will hit them without knowing it."

orginal link: http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJ...Y2NTIyNzYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk5
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
And which President had a preacher visiting him in the White House every two weeks so that he could be instructed in Christianity? Hint, neither Bush.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
The biggest dangers so-called Christians pose is their unwaivering support for Israel. Together with the Jewish lobbies they make it so that the US is not an honest broker in the mideast and that we constantly have unessecary enemies. If it were not for our support of Israel, terrorism would not be what it is today against the US.

That is BS, Isreal is only an excuse that terrorist use to justify the unjustifiable. If it weren't for Isreal, they would have found something else. Most Christians don't really have a lot of love for Jews, but they do recognize when a nation has tried to live in peace and hasn't been allowed to. In 1967, the Jews took most of the Middle East and then gave it back. They took it because they were tired of having their citizens shot at from the Golan heights.

The second biggest danger, if you want to call it one, from Christians is that they are holding America back. Their absurd policies (both foreign and domestic) lead to inefficiency and backwardsness that puts us at a disadvantage with rising powers.

More stereotypical BS. Ever met a scientest that went to church three times a week? Many do and they have given us such as the ATM, radio, satellites, trips to the moon, etc. There is a religious right, but most christians don't agree with anything they propose. Those were people like the hardshell Baptists of old. People just as driven by a set of beliefs as the modern Muslims. Don't see many of them these days. The whole religious panic is due to a bunch of libs not neing able to find anything worse than regular church attendance to make Bush evil - so they have tried to make church attnedance evil.

 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: crooked22
Did you right that, or do you have a link? I'm not going to read through this whole thread, as it's clearly an attempt to assassinate the character of anyone who would call himself Christian. Besides, I don't think a single thing in the OP is actually true. Since whoever wrote it obviously has no idea what Christianity is about, nor any understanding of its precepts, there's not much point in reading anything beyond the first paragraph once this has been established.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: crooked22
Did you right that, or do you have a link? I'm not going to read through this whole thread, as it's clearly an attempt to assassinate the character of anyone who would call himself Christian. Besides, I don't think a single thing in the OP is actually true. Since whoever wrote it obviously has no idea what Christianity is about, nor any understanding of its precepts, there's not much point in reading anything beyond the first paragraph once this has been established.
The Premiss sections is clearly wrong. The rest is right (though exaggerated). Precepts don't matter if they aren't involved in the implementation.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Cerb
The Premiss sections is clearly wrong. The rest is right. Precepts don't matter if they aren't involved in the implementation.
Precepts are directly involved in the implementation, at least for some. It's just another anti-Christian generalization piece written by someone who is obviously ignorant. I think I've read enough of these to wallpaper my apartment just in the last two weeks.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Cerb
The Premiss sections is clearly wrong. The rest is right (though exaggerated). Precepts don't matter if they aren't involved in the implementation.
Precepts are directly involved in the implementation, at least for some. It's just another anti-Christian generalization piece written by someone who is obviously ignorant. I think I've read enough of these to wallpaper my apartment just in the last two weeks.
You know, that would be an awesome way to wallpaper a bathroom. Random thought #58.

(emphasis and edit added)
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
The religion I fear the most is liberalism; holier-than-thou types like Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer deciding how best to spend other people's money. Talk about your theological orthodoxy!
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Mursilis
The religion I fear the most is liberalism; holier-than-thou types like Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer deciding how best to spend other people's money. Talk about your theological orthodoxy!

Modern Liberalism is a disease. I am definately sure of it.

Again, I am not a republican or a conservative. I'm just a regular American who loves this country and sick of the people who bash it day after day. Liberals are some of the meanest, most unjust people I have ever come accross.

They aren't really liberals, they are a bunch of haters. Hate freedom, hate Bush, hate America, hate religion and offer NO ideas.

Sadly, the same could be said of the democratic party.

Just bash Bush night and day and offer NO alternatives. I am willing to accept their ideas IF THEY HAD ANY.
 

slurmsmackenzie

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2004
1,413
0
0
christianity and politics don't mix.

".....be no part of this world just as i am no part of this world." jesus explicitly told his followers not to engage in politics, that the things of this system were not of his father's origin, so were therefore corrupt. so, how can one maintain a truly christian lifestyle while still contributing to a political party? they can't

bush is not a christian..... RRR's as DMC so eloquently refers to them are not christians. it's really simple. religion has no part in politics and vice versa. so what you refer to as christianity is the perversion of it. a distortion to cater to their selfish agenda. why come up with an ideology to rally the masses, when you can borrow one that has already accomplished that, misinterpret it's TRUE meaning, and sell it for your own profit. hardly christian.

please tread lightly with your wording. do you really think the man JC would be involved in all of this political upheaval? of course not! what a silly question. jesus's work was that of his father's. a message of love, understanding, compassion, and HOPE for everyone. how hard is that to understand?

just like taliban does not = true muslims
RRR's does not equal = true christains.

so, in short, the origin of this discussion revolves around an unfit definition. therefore, i enter my own.

christian: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and example

...the first part is cake. it's the second part that most fall short one. unfortunately, that's the definitive aspect.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,942
264
126
Last time I checked Christianity has about as many flavours as Baskins Robbins, and none of them are absolute. In fact, some branches of the movement seem to be democratic. Others have non-elected leaders. Still others are elect but only by the unelected, if that makes sense. Many others are simply superficially delusional and lace their message with visions of ufo's and sugar plums dancing in their heads. Then you have your moderate christian groups cornered by two larger groups; radically self-righteous that walk fine lines and sedantary folks that sort of would of could of been great christians if modern day persecutions of martyrs were taken place today. And then you have the Seventh Day Adventists. And also don't forget you have the mormons that sort of believe in christian principles yet have by far the most ideal self control and actually live what they preach. And then, finally, you have the worst kind of christians, like me, that are absolute. We're called Catholic. And we are absolutely fed up with scandals and coverups and the head kahoonas running around not scared to show off their kahoonas to altar boys...

So fear us. Fear us all.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: Infohawk
The biggest dangers so-called Christians pose is their unwaivering support for Israel. Together with the Jewish lobbies they make it so that the US is not an honest broker in the mideast and that we constantly have unessecary enemies. If it were not for our support of Israel, terrorism would not be what it is today against the US.

The second biggest danger, if you want to call it one, from Christians is that they are holding America back. Their absurd policies (both foreign and domestic) lead to inefficiency and backwardsness that puts us at a disadvantage with rising powers.


As far as US support for Israel, I believe it would be just as strong without the support of the new Christian right. Our support for Israel is based primarily on our shared beliefs in democracy, the rule of law, and freedom.

I believe we would support, and do support, other countries around the world that share these beliefs, even if their geographical location has nothing to do with Christian history.

 

fjord

Senior member
Feb 18, 2004
667
0
0
Not a christian threat--rather it is a religiosity in governance threat, or a dogma in governance threat.

From where I'm standing it is RELIGIOSITY in governance that is conceptually a mistake and a problem.

This underlines why the founders of our Country thought about separation of Church and State.

The great problem in so many of the state governments governed explicitly by religious leaders--or with an underpinning of religiously inspired leaders--or people who use the cloak of religion or dogmatic philosophy for their own (nefarious?) purposes, is:

Religion (dogma) is unbending, unyielding and perfect-- There is a right and a wrong, period. And God help us all who is defining what is right and what is wrong (make no mistake--it is humans that interpret what their particular God says).

For example-- even if a religion (such as Islam) teaches Love and respect for all human life--and this is the central tenant of such a government--it is dangerous to demand fervent adherence to this tenant (dangerous to demand adherence to love!) couched in a governmental or legislative context.

Why, you might ask? Very simply because even such a pure ideology of love can be corrupted. Corrupted by humans.

That is the crux of the problem--it is men (and sometimes women) that govern Nations. Not God. When you mix the metaphore of religion/God (which is perfect by definition) with governments--you are essentialy equating the 2 things. That is dangerous.

Blind devotion to a government is/ and can only be a bad thing.

The strength of the U.S. lies (at least theoretically) in the fundamental right that you and I and anyone else has to differ/depart in opinion from that government. Be critical, and skeptical of it

Not only do we have this right in thought, but in voice--and to some extent in action.

Righteousness is a very dangerous thing--and self-righteousness is even more so. Who knows what evil lies in the hearts of men and women that cannot accept the possibility that they may be wrong. And cannot accept critical evaluation.

Let us not forget that when religion encroaches on government and the state--the essential result will be loss of freedom.

Thank God we understand the error of a religiously sponsored state--and that we are able to separate the two.

Religion is a deeply personal matter--and to extend it beyond the person is by definition a political agenda.

 
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