The Clintons Killed The Democratic Party

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,537
13,109
136
How much damage do the Clintons have to do to the Democratic Party before Democrats finally realize that the Clintons are and have only ever been severe liabilities to the party? And will it be too late, as many of us suspect and fear is already the case?

Democrats are still loyal to the Clintons, a loyalty enforced largely by fear of reprisal from the Clintons' vast and deep political network for going off the reservation. Democrats, fearing the Clintons' wrath more than the wrath of their own constituents, vehemently and reflexively defend the Clintons and they desperately need an intervention.

Viewed objectively, the Clintons and their legacy have severely damaged the party and unmoored it from its traditional roots as the party of the people. And despite what the Clinton enforcers will tell you, it is not only OKAY to say the truth out loud, it is now mandatory.

The Clintons are neoliberals, they adhere ideologically to the economic doctrine of neoliberalism, and let's be clear about what neoliberalism is because the name is entirely misleading; neoliberalism is a corrupt and failed conservative ideology of right-wing, supply-side, "trickle down" (AKA "voodoo") economics with only the veneer of "liberalism" because of stances taken on social issues. Neoliberalism is what allowed Democrats to take big donations from corporate America that they could then use to "compete" electorally with the Republican Party's longstanding corruption (fighting the fire of GOP corruption with the fire of Democrats' corruption) while giving their base platitudes, empty rhetoric and substance-free claptrap about social issues to keep them on board. But this isn't sustainable because at some point, the base starts to figure out that despite all of the promises and pretty words, they are and have been getting nothing from the Democratic Party but lip service, which is where we are now.

Bill Clinton steered the party sharply to the right with his "triangulating" ways during his presidency: Welfare reform, a bill that criminalized the poor and for which then First Lady Hillary Clinton whipped votes, the 1994 crime bill, Democrats then got in bed with Wall Street with the Clinton-led repeal of Depression-era Glass-Steagall regulations that were put in place to prevent just the kind of economic meltdown we had that led to the Great Depression in the 1930's, which worked until it was repealed by one Bill Clinton in 1999 inevitably leading to the Great Recession in 2008, his secret deal with Newt Ginrich to do what Republicans have long salivated over and that Republican presidential successor George Bush would be unable to do: privatize Social Security and Medicare, a plan that was only derailed by the Lewinski scandal, mass incarceration, DOMA, NAFTA, expanding the war on drugs, fighting on the wrong side of the culture wars vis-a-vis Joycelyn Elders, Sister Souljah, et.al., Rwanda, etc. ad nauseum.

This is what triangulating neoliberalism looks like.

After Bill Clinton left the Oval Office, he cashed in on the speech circuit. Hillary Clinton rode her husband's name recognition and all of the privilege that it engenders all the way to eventually propel the Arkansas girl into a Senate seat in New York. This was a case of naked political ambition; someone with the name, the resources and all of the opportunities, privileges and advantages those thing afford, shopping around for a safe Senate district to move to and run in. And it worked, Hillary Clinton expanded her political network as senator and developed the bona fides necessary to run for president.

Obama was smart to give her the SoS job after she lost the primary to him in 2008 insuring that she wouldn't try to primary him in 2012. She used that position, as corrupt politicians do, to further build her political network and shake down foreigners for donations to her and her husband's foundation.

After leaving the SoS position, Hillary Clinton - who EVERYONE knew would be running for president in 2016 - seriously cashed in giving way-over-compensated speeches to big banks and other Wall Street-connected firms, a clear "quid" for the "pro quo" of serving those company's interests should she be elected president. Clear evidence of corruption and blatant conflicts of interest but because of the normalization of corruption that has taken place over the last several decades, Clinton was corrupt and we all knew it - her supporters included - but no one cared ("that's just the way politics is done") except for the few of us on the fringes who still maintained our integrity.

Neoliberal Hillary Clinton then secretly took over the DNC (I won't even get into her email server or the fact that she was under active investigation by the FBI during her run) corrupting it and tilting the playing field to insure she became the party's nominee. It was her turn after all. What's more, she is the first nominee in American history that didn't actually campaign for votes believing ostensibly that she was simply entitled to a majority of vote simply by dint of being the Democratic nominee.

The Clintons and the infestation of their corrupt, insidious neoliberal ideology deep into the Democratic Party sold out the party and transformed it from being a party of the people to being another corrupt party on the payroll of corporate America such that we now have two of them and they're the only two political parties that we have. They are two sides of the same coin.

Democrats went from being the party of labor to the party of Wall Street, whose interests are DIAMETRICALLY opposed to labor. Democrats naturally became anti-labor as a result thus enabling the rapid decline of labor's influence politically thanks to the Democrats' paid-for, purposeful weak opposition to the GOP's efforts to kill unions.

This corruption of both of our only two political parties and hence the corruption of our entire political system means that there is now no longer any political party to represent the people, the people have been completely disenfranchised from our system of government. It is no wonder that our election turnouts are so low.

The Clintons in their naked political ambition have corrupted and destroyed the Democratic Party and the DNC. They gave us President Donald Fucking Trump.

Unless and until the Democratic Party emphatically rejects neoliberal Clintonism, ceremoniously casts the Clintons aside and embraces their roots again as the party of the people, their downward spiral will continue unabated.

The American people can see it clearly. They came together and voted for change in 2008, 2010, 2012, and 2014 but all that promised change never came. So in 2016, they voted to throw a goddamned wrench into the political establishment vis-a-vis the candidacy of Donald Trump.

The writing is on the wall, Democrats and Democratic partisans, yet you still purposefully avert your gaze. You are in denial. You've been led right to the water's edge but it is now up to you to drink before you die of thirst, taking the rest of us down with you.

FDR put it much more succinctly, and is a lesson that the Clintons, other neoliberal Democrats and Democratic partisans apparently never learned even after it was empirically proven in 2016:

"The Democratic Party has received the support of the electorate only when the party, with absolute clarity, has been the champion of progressive and liberal policies and principles of government."

Retreat and regroup?
 

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
I voted for Jill Stein, a real progressive. This lesser evil narrative created by the boombers is extremely dangerous. Evil begets evil. Things will only continue to get worse if we keep voting for these corrupt pieces of shit.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Lash444

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2002
1,708
63
91
But Clinton wasn't clearly better than him, she is hardly squeaky clean herself. So those were our two options. Funny, you ask a conservative and Obama was the worst ever, ask a leftist and Trump is the worst (but GW was the worst before him). Everyone is so melodramatic today.

And again, calling people fools that voted for Trump... you are an example of exactly why the Dems are struggling today.

Hey man, the whole world is telling you that you are an idiot for putting Trump in as POTUS. So hate the left for that all you want for it. It's apparent to everyone else on the planet how poor of a decision it was. I don't give a **** about your feelings, snowflake. You screwed the entire country by being ignorant. All the information was out there showing exactly just how unscrupulous he truly was. Clinton corrupt, but vote Trump into office? Yeah, good job bro!

And thanks for proving my point. Look at how many posts out there try to paint Obama as being a bad president. I see it all the time saying that Trump has done more good things in his first year than Obama in 8. Republicans are ignorant. There is just no other way to look at it. You can claim its a different viewpoint or outlook. No, it's either a lack of integrity or ignorance. Either way, it is dangerous.
 
Reactions: Thebobo

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
Obama was a terrible President...

He was just a great liar, and he told people what they wanted to hear, and then turned around did the exact opposite.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
That is a sexist slur.

I was Bernie or Bust though.

Man that sure worked out really well for you, didn't it? Haha.

I remember when I voted for Nader in 2000 because I thought the two parties were too alike in order to matter much. GWB showed just how insanely wrong that idea was. To think it only took people eight years of having a competent president to forget that lesson.
 

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
Yeah, yeah we know. Trump has done more than Obama in his first year...

Man that sure worked out really well for you, didn't it? Haha.

I remember when I voted for Nader in 2000 because I thought the two parties were too alike in order to matter much. GWB showed just how insanely wrong that idea was. To think it only took people eight years of having a competent president to forget that lesson.

Trump really hasn't done much of anything outside of executive orders.

Trump is an incompetent buffoon that's became a lame duck president, and is dividing the party.

Did you see the huge wins in Va, particularly for progressives? That was in large part to how awful Trump is!

By 2020 people will be so sick of Trump that the only person he could beat is HRC. A prime opportunity to try to get a progressive into the white house.

This is all working out as I had planned. You guys are too shortsighted. You have to look future elections too!
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Trump really hasn't done much of anything outside of executive orders.

Trump is an incompetent buffoon that's became a lame duck president, and is dividing the party.

This is all working out as I had planned.
Another nut that wants to watch it all burn down. Bannon and Russia is with you.
 

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
Another nut that wants to watch it all burn down. Bannon is with you.
It's not about burning it down. It's about weeding out the corruption on both sides, and taking over the democratic party. The difference between HRC and Trump was minimal. We will be far better off with 4 years of Trump and 4 years of Bernie vs 8 years of HRC.

The difference between you and me is that I am playing chess, and you are playing checkers.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
A Bernie bro and a Jill stien voter, plus a guy who is spamming multiple media sites with his crazy bs?!

I'm pretty sure he fits the profile but I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is...

 
Reactions: soundforbjt

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
A Bernie bro and a Jill stien voter, plus a guy who is spamming multiple media sites with his crazy bs?!

I'm pretty sure he fits the profile but I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is...

OMG a picture of a presidential candidate sitting at a table with Putin!

This is clearly evidence of something nefarious!!! Are you being serious right now!?
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
Trump really hasn't done much of anything outside of executive orders.

Trump is an incompetent buffoon that's became a lame duck president, and is dividing the party.

This is all working out as I had planned.

Yeah, executive orders and enshrining a conservative majority on the Supreme Court for decades, giving over the US regulatory apparatus to the industries it's supposed to regulate, take the US off its path of reducing greenhouse gas emissions in order to subsidize fossil fuels, destroying US credibility worldwide, dramatically increasing deaths of innocent civilians in Syria and Afghanistan, potentially spark a constitutional crisis due to unfettered corruption, etc, etc.

But yeah, since you voted for the real progressive (for the green party no less, lol), this seems like a great plan. Definitely better to vote for the 'true progessive', an anti-vaxxer who wanted to forgive student loans (which tend to be held in disproportionately large amounts by people with higher incomes), who didn't want to raise the debt ceiling. Man, that sure sounds like a real progressive to me!

It should have been literally impossible for anyone with an even basic understanding of public policy and especially monetary policy to vote for Jill Stein. Her ideas weren't just often not progressive, they were entirely incoherent and/or incredibly destructive.
 
Reactions: dank69

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It's not about burning it down. It's about weeding out the corruption on both sides, and taking over the democratic party. The difference between HRC and Trump was minimal. We will be far better off with 4 years of Trump and 4 years of Bernie vs 8 years of HRC.

And now, lame bothsiderism... Not to mention that Bernie will be 78 years old in 2020...

Best find a new Hero by then...
 

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
I agree the Bill Clinton years were great considering the GOP sabotage campaign. Obstructed at every turn, which led to two different government shutdowns, and he never blinked. Came out stronger than before. His only problem was his pecker or his cigar as it were. Same problem a lot of American men seem to have.

We didn't have tweets and barely had internet during the Clinton presidency so information flowed much slower than it does now. You could do a deal and nobody would know for years.
Whole other ballgame now. I don't read white supremacy websites but there seems to be plenty of evidence of Clinton wrongdoing if only someone would take a peek. Every fart you let go these days has been documented, categorized, 3d printed, and posted to the internet for all eternity. There is no doubt in my mind that the Clinton family are crooks. We knew it then, didn't care because my wallet was fat. They run corruption rackets just like the Trump clan and the Bushes (see the Carlyle Group) before them; and if you want to try a game and talk about how the Clintons are all holy and shit than you are just as deluded as Trump supporters. I'm not buying.

This Democrat will vote against the Clinton machine going forward even if it means keeping snapperhead in office.
 

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
Yeah, executive orders and enshrining a conservative majority on the Supreme Court for decades, giving over the US regulatory apparatus to the industries it's supposed to regulate, take the US off its path of reducing greenhouse gas emissions in order to subsidize fossil fuels, destroying US credibility worldwide, dramatically increasing deaths of innocent civilians in Syria and Afghanistan, potentially spark a constitutional crisis due to unfettered corruption, etc, etc.

But yeah, since you voted for the real progressive (for the green party no less, lol), this seems like a great plan. Definitely better to vote for the 'true progessive', an anti-vaxxer who wanted to forgive student loans (which tend to be held in disproportionately large amounts by people with higher incomes), who didn't want to raise the debt ceiling. Man, that sure sounds like a real progressive to me!

It should have been literally impossible for anyone with an even basic understanding of public policy and especially monetary policy to vote for Jill Stein. Her ideas weren't just often not progressive, they were entirely incoherent and/or incredibly destructive.

The supreme court has been fucked for decades, and any chance of reform was lost when Bernie was cheated out of the primary.

The paris agreement is a bad joke. Climate Change needs to be treated as a WW2 level threat.

The US didn't have any credibility, aside from being a warmongering empire.

Yah, because Obama really got us out of those wars.... Trump is just continuing what Obama did basically.



-----------------------------------------

Trump really hasn't done much of anything outside of executive orders.

Trump is an incompetent buffoon that's became a lame duck president, and is dividing the party.

Did you see the huge wins in Va, particularly for progressives? That was in large part to how awful Trump is!

By 2020 people will be so sick of Trump that the only person he could beat is HRC. A prime opportunity to try to get a progressive into the white house.

This is all working out as I had planned. You guys are too shortsighted. You have to look future elections too!

And now, lame bothsiderism... Not to mention that Bernie will be 78 years old in 2020...

Best find a new Hero by then...

I would vote for Bernie's corpse before I voted for a corrupt establishment democrat to be POTUS.

Bernie will have a great VP pick, like Tulsi Gabbard, so I am not concerned about his age.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
So yard signs are only predictive for presidential elections? Why is that?

Also I'm interested, what's the method for measuring yard signs? How do you quantify this?

The office of president is sort of a halo position, the dynamics are different than congressional elections. Use your eyes. See what you clearly see more of in different areas, if you clearly see more of one vs. another. It isn't a scientific test, but over time a trend will develop. This is especially interesting if you travel from state to state regularly. You can cling to polling, but I think you'll be let down. Again. Today there seems to be more interest from our profit driven media and political institutions in telling their audience what they want to hear vs. telling truth all the time.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
Yeah, executive orders and enshrining a conservative majority on the Supreme Court for decades, giving over the US regulatory apparatus to the industries it's supposed to regulate, take the US off its path of reducing greenhouse gas emissions in order to subsidize fossil fuels, destroying US credibility worldwide, dramatically increasing deaths of innocent civilians in Syria and Afghanistan, potentially spark a constitutional crisis due to unfettered corruption, etc, etc.

But yeah, since you voted for the real progressive (for the green party no less, lol), this seems like a great plan. Definitely better to vote for the 'true progessive', an anti-vaxxer who wanted to forgive student loans (which tend to be held in disproportionately large amounts by people with higher incomes), who didn't want to raise the debt ceiling. Man, that sure sounds like a real progressive to me!

It should have been literally impossible for anyone with an even basic understanding of public policy and especially monetary policy to vote for Jill Stein. Her ideas weren't just often not progressive, they were entirely incoherent and/or incredibly destructive.

Now I am fucking mad. I just posted a diatribe about how fucked up the Clintons were and you have to remind me of how fucked up Trump is. NOW WHAT?!?!?!?!?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Hey man, the whole world is telling you that you are an idiot for putting Trump in as POTUS. So hate the left for that all you want for it. It's apparent to everyone else on the planet how poor of a decision it was. I don't give a **** about your feelings, snowflake. You screwed the entire country by being ignorant. All the information was out there showing exactly just how unscrupulous he truly was. Clinton corrupt, but vote Trump into office? Yeah, good job bro!

And thanks for proving my point. Look at how many posts out there try to paint Obama as being a bad president. I see it all the time saying that Trump has done more good things in his first year than Obama in 8. Republicans are ignorant. There is just no other way to look at it. You can claim its a different viewpoint or outlook. No, it's either a lack of integrity or ignorance. Either way, it is dangerous.

You keep suggesting people that don't see it like you are stupid. I didn't vote for Trump, but since the election he's been winning me over with his America-first, party doesn't matter way of doing things. You continue to say how "everyone" doesn't like Trump. You're trying to convince yourself more than me, it seems. If the Dems put up a viable candidate Trump wouldn't have won, but they put up a do-nothing bought and sold candidate that has scandals all around her. Not that different from Trump, but at least Trump could sell his ideas. Our standing in the world is just fine. But continue with the melodrama, it is entertaining. Let me help you, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! Riot!
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
The office of president is sort of a halo position, the dynamics are different than congressional elections. Use your eyes. See what you clearly see more of in different areas, if you clearly see more of one vs. another. It isn't a scientific test, but over time a trend will develop. This is especially interesting if you travel from state to state regularly. You can cling to polling, but I think you'll be let down. Again. Today there seems to be more interest from our profit driven media and political institutions in telling their audience what they want to hear vs. telling truth all the time.

So to be clear you think you can predict the presidential election by eyeballing yard signs? You can't be serious.

That is amazing.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,505
27,803
136
You keep suggesting people that don't see it like you are stupid. I didn't vote for Trump, but since the election he's been winning me over with his America-first, party doesn't matter way of doing things. You continue to say how "everyone" doesn't like Trump. You're trying to convince yourself more than me, it seems. If the Dems put up a viable candidate Trump wouldn't have won, but they put up a do-nothing bought and sold candidate that has scandals all around her. Not that different from Trump, but at least Trump could sell his ideas. Our standing in the world is just fine. But continue with the melodrama, it is entertaining. Let me help you, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! Riot!
Trump just endorsed Roy Moore fer Christ's sake.
 

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
You keep suggesting people that don't see it like you are stupid. I didn't vote for Trump, but since the election he's been winning me over with his America-first, party doesn't matter way of doing things. You continue to say how "everyone" doesn't like Trump. You're trying to convince yourself more than me, it seems. If the Dems put up a viable candidate Trump wouldn't have won, but they put up a do-nothing bought and sold candidate that has scandals all around her. Not that different from Trump, but at least Trump could sell his ideas. Our standing in the world is just fine. But continue with the melodrama, it is entertaining. Let me help you, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! Riot!

HRC used her power with the "news" media to prop up Trump and blacklist Bernie, rigged the primary against Bernie, and then proceeded to lose to a fucking game show host that was LITERALLY trying to throw the election. Then HRC and the DNC cooked up a Russiagate conspiracy to shield themselves from their own incompetence and corruption.

This shit wouldn't fly as a script to the twilight zone, and yet here we are!

Trump just endorsed Roy Moore fer Christ's sake.

The Trumpers were already defending him for some fucked up reason.

So to be clear you think you can predict the presidential election by eyeballing yard signs? You can't be serious.

That is amazing.

It's odd, because I used to cite the data here, and told everyone that Bernie was by far the better presidential candidate, and everyone dismissed that fact, because of their feelings. They just knew that HRC was the better candidate, because of 'reasons'.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Lash444

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2002
1,708
63
91
Our standing in the world is just fine.

Why would you even mention this, unless you KNEW that it was an issue? I didn't mention it. The fact you have to bring it up like it isn't something to be concerned about, is proof that you realize that it IS a problem.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
The supreme court has been fucked for decades, and any chance of reform was lost when Bernie was cheated out of the primary.

There is no credible path through which Sanders was going to win the primary. This is self delusion. As for the Supreme Court, enjoy the upcoming ruling that guts unions through eliminating shop fees. I'm about 99% sure a Hillary Clinton appointee or Merrick Garland would have voted to uphold shop fees, but I guess as a 'true progressive' you're fine with unions being further decimated.

The paris agreement is a bad joke. Climate Change needs to be treated as a WW2 level threat.

Oh well if it's such an existential threat then it was definitely a good idea to help elect the guy who wants to subsidize carbon emitting fuels and remove subsidies for clean energy then. Did you think this through in even the slightest?

I remember when people who thought we needed to already be at war with Germany wanted to vote for Charles Lindbergh in 1940. lol.

The US didn't have any credibility, aside from being a warmongering empire.

Yah, because Obama really got us out of those wars.... Trump is just continuing what Obama did basically.

There is no way someone who has been paying attention to those conflicts since January would say Trump and Obama's approaches were 'basically' the same. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I would vote for Bernie's corpse before I voted for a corrupt establishment democrat to be POTUS.

Bernie will have a great VP pick, like Tulsi Gabbard, so I am not concerned about his age.

I'm going to guess you're in your early 20's. I remember thinking the same way as you did before we had to endure eight years of GWB because people like me thought it was better to be ideologically pure than to be smart.
 
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