The Confederate States of America movie

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MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,001
113
106
I see you don't live in the South... Revisionism is very popular there. A lot of people believe that things would be better if the South did win, and that the Civil War wasn't even about slavery.

No, we don't wish that AT ALL. In fact, we are probably just as, if not more patriotic citizens of the Union today than many other regions. Just look at our over-representation in the modern military as one example among many. Slavery was just one of many issues surrounding the war. Your view of Southern succession and of Southerners today is simplistic, convenient, and wrong.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
...It's amazing the mental gymnastics that revisionists will go through just so they can put a stars and bars decal on their pickups.
Would that your knowledge of antebellum politics were less flawed than your knowledge of Confedrate pennantry.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
The argument that it was about secession is like saying you divorced your wife because of divorce, not because she was a bitch.

Yes, the Civil War happened because the South seceded. The south didn't secede for secession's sake, they seceded because slavery was outlawed in the new territories and they feared that Lincoln was anti-slavery, which he was, political statements notwithstanding.

It's amazing the mental gymnastics that revisionists will go through just so they can put a stars and bars decal on their pickups.

 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Would that your knowledge of antebellum politics were less flawed than your knowledge of Confedrate pennantry.

Wouldn't it be more accurately called the Confederate Navy Jack I believe? Or the 3rd Confederate Flag. Something like that. I always felt its overuse in the South was kinda tacky. But I was against when they changed it in my state, but only because what they changed it to looked worse.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,735
6,204
126
Humanity suffers from the disease of self hate, the collective feeling each of us has that we are worthless, the result of being put down as children, the capacity of the mind to repress pain from the past to deal with the exigencies of staying alive in the present, and the projection on others that they are evil if something they do threatens to re-awaken that pain.

This is our condition, living without real internal self respect, we identify with anything and everything imaginable in the external environment that we can become worshipers of as something that's great. We desperately long to be members of the good guys since we feel empty ourselves within. Thus it is we all become bigots, believers that our team, or way of thought, our race, our country, our club is the best and if whatever it is we have identified with that substitutes for our own self respect loses the door to how worthless we really feel begins to form cracks.

Then our blind defensiveness as bigots comes into play and we devote our full attention to repairing those cracks with infinite rationalization and denial. The truth is always seen as that which will tell us we deserve our own self hate.

It is this fear of the truth that we are worthless that brings about war, this fear that is a lie anyway. We have no idea in our state of repression and denial that our watchword is that "it is better that you die then that I feel my self hate."

Once one actually sees that this is the real condition of man, understanding everything that people do is easy.

The South was made to feel worthless because they lost the war, their social structure based on the supremacy of the white man, economic wealth, etc. And when folk are made to feel worthless they always develop some new form of inferiority based pride. Southern pride and even Black pride for the most severely damaged victims. All forms of pride in externals and abstractions are nothing more than the manifestation of unconscious inner self hate, the need for anything at all to hang on to to survive the real feeling that we are worthless.

So among those who feel worthless to greater and greater degrees, those who were more and more put down as children, we see the greatest resistance to adaption and change, the greatest conservatism. They are the ones who are most protective because they feel they have more to lose. These become the greatest proponents of whatever it was they first identified with and attached to. They are the first to war. They are the parade people who have a need to stick their superiority in your face. Here we get our greatest egotists, authoritarians and hypocrites. These are the folk up to their noses in shit that chant and vigil night and day that nobody anywhere make any waves.

This thread is the product of the tension is our culture between those who carry this kind of cultural baggage they still feel a need to defend and the wave of change that is happening elsewhere. We are witnessing the reactions of Southern culture defensive aggression and it's back lash from those it tries to hold back. The youth will leave that culture and join some potentially new disastrous way of life because it's no longer cool to be Southern with all the negative baggage in the new coming world. For those still stuck with their bigotry, it's long past time to die. You don't need to be a butt anchor any longer for the rest of the human race. See this truth and know that there is really nothing wrong with you. We are all the same. Let's make what we are really really great. There's nothing like being a happy ape filled with joy and swinging through the trees. Relax and be happy. Have a banana. Have a bunch.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
I see you don't live in the South... Revisionism is very popular there. A lot of people believe that things would be better if the South did win, and that the Civil War wasn't even about slavery.

No, you're being ridiculous.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Wouldn't it be more accurately called the Confederate Navy Jack I believe? Or the 3rd Confederate Flag. Something like that. I always felt its overuse in the South was kinda tacky. But I was against when they changed it in my state, but only because what they changed it to looked worse.
The generic term is Confederate Battle Flag; IIRC, the variant commonly seen on redneck license plates and flying over single-wide trailers most closely resembles the Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
The argument that it was about secession is like saying you divorced your wife because of divorce, not because she was a bitch.

Yes, the Civil War happened because the South seceded. The south didn't secede for secession's sake, they seceded because slavery was outlawed in the new territories and they feared that Lincoln was anti-slavery, which he was, political statements notwithstanding.

It's amazing the mental gymnastics that revisionists will go through just so they can put a stars and bars decal on their pickups.

Almost as amazing as your superiority complex, and just as pathetic.

Regardless of the reason the south chose to secede, as you say, the civil war happened because the south seceded. To use your analogy, it's like trying to get a divorce with your wife based on irreconcilable differences, and then your wife pointing a gun at you saying you don't have the right to divorce. Or at least that's how a lot of southerners saw it.

The question of whether a union held together by force is just is a valid historical point and major argument of the time. The North didn't just go "they've got slaves, now they're trying to keep them! Get 'em!!!"

There are multiple perspectives and multiple reasons for anything as complex as the civil war. Saying "the civil war was about slavery" is what they teach you in 3rd grade when you're still too young to understand more complex political concepts. It's like saying "WWII was about fascism".
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Almost as amazing as your superiority complex, and just as pathetic.

Regardless of the reason the south chose to secede, as you say, the civil war happened because the south seceded. To use your analogy, it's like trying to get a divorce with your wife based on irreconcilable differences, and then your wife pointing a gun at you saying you don't have the right to divorce. Or at least that's how a lot of southerners saw it.

The question of whether a union held together by force is just is a valid historical point and major argument of the time. The North didn't just go "they've got slaves, now they're trying to keep them! Get 'em!!!"

There are multiple perspectives and multiple reasons for anything as complex as the civil war. Saying "the civil war was about slavery" is what they teach you in 3rd grade when you're still too young to understand more complex political concepts. It's like saying "WWII was about fascism".

Talk about spin.

The South seceded because they didn't want their "right" to have slaves infringed upon. The North didn't let the South secede. How is that anything other than the war being about slavery?
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
No, we don't wish that AT ALL. In fact, we are probably just as, if not more patriotic citizens of the Union today than many other regions. Just look at our over-representation in the modern military as one example among many. Slavery was just one of many issues surrounding the war. Your view of Southern succession and of Southerners today is simplistic, convenient, and wrong.

I said "a lot of people" not "all people".

I went to school with kids who still had relatives in the Klan... So kindly STFU. I don't have a simplistic view of Southerners today, and my view of Southern secession is based on the actual history. And I've defended southerners from stereotypes on this forum.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
BTW, who was the politician who said that the it would have been better if the South had won? It was a few years ago...
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Talk about spin.

The South seceded because they didn't want their "right" to have slaves infringed upon. The North didn't let the South secede. How is that anything other than the war being about slavery?
You confuse cause with trigger. You may as well assert that the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand caused the First World War or that one particular Volkswagen caused the I-35W bridge collapse.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,735
6,204
126
Almost as amazing as your superiority complex, and just as pathetic.

Regardless of the reason the south chose to secede, as you say, the civil war happened because the south seceded. To use your analogy, it's like trying to get a divorce with your wife based on irreconcilable differences, and then your wife pointing a gun at you saying you don't have the right to divorce. Or at least that's how a lot of southerners saw it.

The question of whether a union held together by force is just is a valid historical point and major argument of the time. The North didn't just go "they've got slaves, now they're trying to keep them! Get 'em!!!"

There are multiple perspectives and multiple reasons for anything as complex as the civil war. Saying "the civil war was about slavery" is what they teach you in 3rd grade when you're still too young to understand more complex political concepts. It's like saying "WWII was about fascism".

This post is quite funny to me. I just posted the one simple reason for the civil war, a reason so singular and simple that it could be understood by a third grader, but you still go on with your certain knowledge that the causes were complex and arcane. The truth is right in front of people's faces but they do not see it and the reason for that is also elementally simple. People are motivated not to see. You are like a fish trying to discover what water is. The lock on the blindness of humanity is controlled by one single key. The wheel of the world turns on one hub.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,001
113
106
I said "a lot of people" not "all people".

I went to school with kids who still had relatives in the Klan... So kindly STFU. I don't have a simplistic view of Southerners today, and my view of Southern secession is based on the actual history. And I've defended southerners from stereotypes on this forum.

As did I. I've seen where the stereotypes come from, but they do not represent Southern society by any means. You still have a simplistic view of Southern secession. I have always contended that there were larger political and economic concerns between the North and South, that despite slavery, would have lead to eventual secession. The North would not have attacked to free the slaves, period. At most they wanted to contain it, or keep the balance of power between slave and non-slave states in the Senate. This was largely to keep the balance not on the slavery issue, but between those larger positions that are advocated by agrarian versus industrial economies.
 
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