The Dark Side of Islam

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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
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As someone married to a muslim and someone who goes to a mosque frequently I hope I can bring something new to this discussion. -- nothing new just the usual well I go to a mosque every day....
Pray To Jesus' original post just smacks of someone interested only in confirming his existing bias. These sort of audio recordings and interviews are in all religions. Scientologists have recordings of ex-christians saying how they were deceived and the religion is evil, muslims have recordings of converts saying how their atheist lifestyle was evil etc etc. There's no shortage of people willing to offer up their past beliefs for propaganda use. It brings nothing new to the discussion. -- of course they do....there are exceptions to everything..hell Satanists have recording of people converting...go figure!
But to his main point about the correlation between religious beliefs and conflict. There might be something of truth in there but not as much as he might wish. The argument put forward is essentially that a person who reads the koran and takes it literally will consequently become violent person and use violence to terrorise. The main issue here is that two people may read it literally and come to two different conclusions. One may think violence is called for, the other may think not. But most importantly, knowing dozens of muslims and having met hundreds, not a single one has ever thought violence was part of their religion. Indeed they are quite vehement in the peaceful nature of the religion (Islam does after all translate as peace. ) -- the majority of Muslims refuse to take a stand against this so called violence...I did noit say all..i said the majority. Possibly the reason they refuse to take a stand against the violence is because secretly they agree with the violence as long a ssomebody else is doing the violence??Whether a holy book is the literal word of god or not is not really important in this discussion- the interpretation is everything. Christians know (or should know) that the bible is not supposed to be the literal word of god, but instead inspired by god. But that has not stopped them from still using it to justify the same actions as muslim terrorists, or the other end of the spectrum, to inspire incredible acts of courage and charity. -- we are talking about Muslims at this present time in history....incredible acts of charity..hmmm....sounds like diatribe to me...

Really, it is the muslim leaders who are responsible for the interpretation of the koran. There are many schools of thought regarding this. The most important one for this discussion is the Wahhabi school of thought. The OP is nearest to truth with this school of thought. It is the most rigid and intollerant religious movement of modern times (it started in the mid 19th century) that has recently spread around the world, primarily thanks to saudi money. Osama was a wahhabi, the taliban follow a similar school of thought to wahhabiism- pretty much all islamic terrorists will be wahhabi or follow a similar school of thought. These people do not read the koran alone and come to their own conclusions. They learnt their islam, not from books, but from preachers. This is the salient point here- the source of the violence is not the book, but the preacher. -- umm actually the book exhorts Muslims to kill those who refuse to convert.....and stoning a woman for being raped....where did that come from...seems to me like you don`t know the book...
So it is not true for the OP to state that the book (and consequently the religion) inspire violence. There are these "hate preachers" in all abrahamic religions. It could be argued they have a greater hold in islamic nations as they are poorer and less developed.


I think it's perhaps even more important to point out that you would need to either ignore or be ignorant of the entire history of these nations and how their society works to really believe what the OP says. The frequent mistake when talking about the middle east and islamic nations (and africa, and the indian subcontinent) is to think that they are a group of nations with a common religion. The national boundaries in these areas are almost irrelevant. The main driving force behind these violences is usually racial or at least cultural. The national border are relatively new inventions in these places and do not follow the traditional divides of tribe and culture. You will notice the religious divides match the tribal divides. Syria is a great example. The divides are, from the outside, seemingly religious. But a cursory glance at the situation would show it is tribal. People have a great loyalty to their tribe and it helps their leaders to justify it in their religion. There a historical grievances between these tribes that go back a long way and are in no way routed in any religious ideal.
I bet it is tough to be a Muslim in denial.
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
0
All 3 monotheistic Abrahamic religions have their fair share of huge problems. They seem to go through phases as they fight between each other for being the "right religion". Right now Islam has the most fundamentalist problems but that can change as economic conditions change and as the power struggle shifts in balance.
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
0
Really, it is the muslim leaders who are responsible for the interpretation of the koran. There are many schools of thought regarding this. The most important one for this discussion is the Wahhabi school of thought. The OP is nearest to truth with this school of thought. It is the most rigid and intollerant religious movement of modern times (it started in the mid 19th century) that has recently spread around the world, primarily thanks to saudi money. Osama was a wahhabi, the taliban follow a similar school of thought to wahhabiism- pretty much all islamic terrorists will be wahhabi or follow a similar school of thought. These people do not read the koran alone and come to their own conclusions. They learnt their islam, not from books, but from preachers. This is the salient point here- the source of the violence is not the book, but the preacher.

It's probably worth stressing this paragraph. We've seen this happen before. Until the reformation you were not allowed to read the Bible. It was written in Latin and then read to you in Church by the leaders who told you what to think and do. This caused a lot of problems. I have been reading quite a bit about the evolution of Catholicism and the reformation in Sweden and it's fascinating. What we're seeing today is a sect of Islam using the same tried and true tricks that the Catholic Church employed 500 years ago.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
This discussion lacks any substance. To really understand Islam and Muslims, one has to understand their history. There have been so many schools of thoughts in Islam that have their own interpretation of the Quran based on their own yardsticks. The Quran can be interpreted in multiple ways and hence the internal differences. The OP refers to just one interpretation based on a limited understanding. It would be wrong to say that anyone who has not taken up arms against someone else is a less dedicated group of Muslims.

Each group claims they are the fundamentalists. You can not just pick one group and say they are the fundamentalist because it suits your agenda! At least not without understanding the claims of each group.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
This discussion lacks any substance. To really understand Islam and Muslims, one has to understand their history. There have been so many schools of thoughts in Islam that have their own interpretation of the Quran based on their own yardsticks. The Quran can be interpreted in multiple ways and hence the internal differences. The OP refers to just one interpretation based on a limited understanding. It would be wrong to say that anyone who has not taken up arms against someone else is a less dedicated group of Muslims.

Each group claims they are the fundamentalists. You can not just pick one group and say they are the fundamentalist because it suits your agenda! At least not without understanding the claims of each group.
YES!! Now that you have posted. This discussion lacks any substance!!
 

roham

Junior Member
Nov 4, 2013
6
0
0
Hi
I am Muslim only because my parents are Muslim!
I do not take my religion seriously and I dont have any problem with people how are taking it seriously!
but the problems start when a religion wants to be a governor of a society and force people to do something!
the problems start when I hate somebody only because of her or his religion ( similar to black or white people)
people should be free in choosing their religion and it should not be considered as matter of policy. something that can be see in middle east nowadays, unfortunately!
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,989
20
81
A thread named "The Dark Side of Islam" by someone with the handle, "Pray To Jesus".

Has objectivity written all over it!
 

Onceler

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,262
0
71
Why do you have the authority to determine this so called false Christian?

The term Christian was used to indicate one who followed Christ.
That can mean the teachings, behavior or the belief.

Where does it state how one should follow and such a determination be truthful?

Only Jesus can judge who is Cristian in name or in faith.
And Paul was a charlatan who hijacked the new faith to have for himself.
 
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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,310
687
126
"Dark side of Islam" is such a loaded title. As for genocide, I would also bring attention to what happens in Africa (some in the name of Christ) which is almost completely ignored by the West compared to what happens in middle East.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
"Dark side of Islam" is such a loaded title. As for genocide, I would also bring attention to what happens in Africa (some in the name of Christ) which is almost completely ignored by the West compared to what happens in middle East.
Which has nothing to do with this thread in the least.....
Nice attempt at deflection though....
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
"Dark side of Islam" is such a loaded title. As for genocide, I would also bring attention to what happens in Africa (some in the name of Christ) which is almost completely ignored by the West compared to what happens in middle East.
There's a dark side to everything.
 
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