The Death of free internet

[GasX]

<<

<< That's why all the free internet companies went under. People wouldn't click on the banners and buy things; that's what supported the free >>



There weren't that many free isps to start with. What really tick me off is that people like me can't go back to the way things were thanks to netzero. I was happy paying $5/month for good service and unlimited access with no form of advertisement whatsoever. But who can resist free internet?

Alot of companies(Moms and Pops)that offered great service went under because Netzero drove them out of business with their free internet access. Remember the huge NBA 1/2 time commercials about their unlimited free internet access? That would be almost fine if the internet was meant to be free like television and radio programs. But for Netzero to go back and change the perimeters, then those other ISPs went down in vain. >>


The internet bubble burst and finally ISPs will cost what they need to cost. Whatever happens with Netzero and the mom &amp; pops, your ISP bill will soon be at fair market value. Netzero is not to blame all by itself, there is a lot involved.

 

[GasX]

I was just calling a spade a spade. I can't speak for the others.

 

[JohnBlack007]

<< You know what he told me? He wasn't bitter at Netzero because &quot;internet was meant to be free like television.&quot; >>



Television is free because the companies broadcasting the shows MAKE more money from advertisers than it costs them to broadcast the shows. The advertisers spend big money to promote their items on TV becasue they KNOW who they're marketing to. So the TV companies can keep broadcasting shows for free. With the free internet services they didn't know who the hell they were advertising to, and very few people clicked the banners because they weren't interested in seeing advertisements, they just wanted to go on the internet. I would love for the internet would be free, but who's going to pay the bills? The goverment? NetZero? Keep dreaming. It does suck that all free internet solutions are gone except NetZero, but they're smart advertisers and smart business people; can't blame them for that. Besides, they still provide 40 a week, and if you want to go on for more than that, there are tons of unlimited internet providers for $10 or less.

 

[SuperCyrix]

<< &quot;...or try and circumvent the system&quot; >>



1st of all, I see nothing wrong with what I did. 2nd, was this statement strong enough or morally wrong enough to justify you insulting me? Tell me that on your computer, contains absolutely no MP3s, copied software, or anything not 100% legal.
Is this what diamond members like you do? Go around insulting people that don't fit your perception of morality?



<< Why should the internet be free? Should the companies who supply the infrastructure not get paid? We don't live in a socialist society, and even if we did, nothing is free. Netzero and all free ISPs are founded on a flawed business plan. Ad revenue will never cover the costs of bandwidth,especially when cheesedicks like you try and get more than their share. >>



Then Netzero should never had given it away for free and alter the perimeters now. If that was the case, then nobody will have a problem with it. But that's not the case, people like me can't go back to the way things were. And there you go with the name calling again. Getting nastier and nastier are we?

 

[Rendus]

I'm not going to bother addressing ANY of the inane comments in this thread, but rather post my opinion.

NetZero started out trying to provide unlimited free internet access to anyone who wanted it. A bunch of others decided &quot;Hey, we can make a business model out of giving stuff away too!&quot;, so they jumped in as well. Ok, competition is good and all that.

Then the DotCom bust came, killing all these companies that had no business model to speak of (giving stuff away without any way to make money otherwise isn't going to pay the bills). NetZero and a couple others who have some backing are still around, but they get smart. They realize they can't let Joe Cheapass stay on their phone lines 24/7 for free, so they decide on a number. BlueLight's reason for existing is to allow KMart customers to shop online for free, so they get ~12 hours, which is more than enough for this purpose. NetZero decides on 40 hours, probably their breakeven point (if they're lucky). They're trying to stay in business. They're not trying to bait and switch, they didn't come into the market with the intention of destroying it (as far as I can tell anyway).

And as far as NetZero and such killing the Mom &amp; Pop ISP, most Mom &amp; Pops died before NetZero was a factor. I'm trying to think of a Mom &amp; Pop in Las Vegas, and I can't name one. And I haven't been able to for quite some time.

What killed them here? We've had high speed Internet access available here for nearly 6 years (cable modem). Prime Cable (and later Cox) killed the Mom &amp; Pop here, as almost all technically literate users switched. &quot;But what about the normal users?&quot; you cry? Joe Sixpack never used the local ISPs, but rather AOL, Earthlink, CompuServe, Prodigy, et al. So all of the above also killed the local ISPs.

Such is life, and such is business.

Personally, I've always paid for my Internet access. I used Juno for a little bit, but that was back when all they did was e-mail. Hell, I was one of their first users (signed up on their initial launch date, April 22nd, 1996, as a backup e-mail address due to issues with the cable access at the time).

If you don't want to deal with the limitations of the current free ISPs, get a non-free one. Simple as that. Nobody forces you to use them. If you can't scrounge up $10-$22.95 a month, you have other issues to be concerned about (such as getting a job). And if you're just too cheap to pay for what you get, don't whine about what's given to you.

 

[SuperCyrix]

<< The internet bubble burst and finally ISPs will cost what they need to cost. Whatever happens with Netzero and the mom &amp; pops, your ISP bill >>



Bzzz, you are still trying to justify the action of Netzero. If what your said is true, I've made another thread previously that ask for a good cheap Paid internet service. Why didn't go respond there instead of here? Seems to me you're just here to stir up trouble.

 

[Rendus]

<<

<< The internet bubble burst and finally ISPs will cost what they need to cost. Whatever happens with Netzero and the mom &amp; pops, your ISP bill >>



Bzzz, you are still trying to justify the action of Netzero. If what your said is true, I've made another thread previously that ask for a good cheap Paid internet service. Why didn't go respond there instead of here? Seems to me you're just here to stir up trouble. >>



If he's anything like me, he's trying to figure out what you're TRYING to say.

If you want people to listen to you, make sure you can be understood.

 

[JohnBlack007]

Rendus, I also subscribe to Cox cable (las vegas area).

SuperCyrix,

You tried to circumvent NetZero's hour limit; that's stealing and nothing you say can justify it. You seem to think that NetZero owes you something. You want to know what they owe you? Nothing. It's not their responsibility to give you free internet. They shouldn't have to lose money because they can no longer afford to give 24/7 free access to people who think the internet is a god given right.



<< you are still trying to justify the action of Netzero >>


What's there to justify? Oh no NetZero wants to be the most successful dial-up business. Shame on all those businesses that actually want to make a profit; I hate those bastards. NetZero is in the position it's in because they advertised better than the other free internet companies and operated their business better than the other free dial-up operations.

 

[SuperCyrix]

I'm very disappointed here. I have never came into conflict with anyone here on this forum. I never expected that a post I made would turn this ugly. If such a thing did happen, I thought it would be with a Jr Member or just a member. But nooooo, instead, 3 people who are not just senior members but Diamond Members felt that it was within their moral duty to waltz into this thread and start insulting me like a mob.

 

[SuperCyrix]

I'm very disappointed here. I have never came into conflict with anyone here on this forum. I never expected that a post I made would turn this ugly. If such a thing did happen, I thought it would be with a Jr Member or just a member. But nooooo, instead, 3 people who are not just senior members but Diamond Members felt that it was within their moral duty to waltz into this thread and start insulting me like a mob.

 

[Rendus]

<< Rendus, I also subscribe to Cox cable (las vegas area). >>



I'm right off Boulder Highway (I at one point, literally, was on node 1. I've had the service awhile )

As far as your comments to SuperCyrix go, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. He seems to feel entitled to unlimited free Internet access because the company, at one point, offered it. Hell, I remember when you paid $20+/month for x hours. My original Prodigy account was $19.95 for 10 hours of access. (And that was a LONG time ago.. Their DOS client sucked. If you know what RipScript is, that's what their client was like, only worse).

The problem people seem to run into is they're used to something that was at one point remotely feasable, so companies tried it. Now it's completely impossible to base a business on the same model, so things have to change. They'd rather see the company go out of business in a few weeks than see them try to stay afloat if it means things don't have to change for the last few weeks of that company's existence.

-edit- SuperCyrix, you're being attacked by pretty much everyone who has the time to reply that's tired of hearing people whining about things changing. Diamond Members, Elite Members, Golden Members, Senior, Junior, just plain Member.

You complain about the death of free and cheap internet, yet in the same thread you post about how you were trying to screw one of the few remaining free companies. Brilliant.

Also, if you were so worried about how free internet would kill the cheap market, why'd you jump on the &quot;free&quot; bandwagon, instead of giving some money to the &quot;cheap&quot; market?

And if you look around, there are still a few cheap companies around. There's one in Vegas (dunno if they cover anywhere else) called The Loop.

 

[SuperCyrix]

Rendus,



<< I'm not going to bother addressing ANY of the inane comments in this thread, but rather post my opinion. >>



I thought you were serious about that until your next post, BUT

I'm going to try real hard to interpret your last post as a contructive comment. You should realize that it's difficult for me to write without any error when I have to answer to a lenching mob by myself.

Now again for those who might have missed this previously,
Let me make absolutely sure that I didn't insult anyone here until I was insulted. For you diamond members, let me remind you.

Mwilding - the diamond member who started the name calling. Did you come in this thread to land a few sucker punches? It's call trolling.


<< you must all be still living at home with mommy and daddy >>



DealDatabase - blindly accuse people or just jumping on the diamond member bandwagon.


<< Those who do pay get good service and help future development. Those who don't and go around trying to remove banners, and save a penny on free internet, let's put it this way &quot;not nice&quot;. >>



Elemental007 - I didn't say a thing about you until you call me a cheapass


<< cheapass that won't pay what amounts to $.10/hr. >>



Now go read Rendus' post. Notice that he entered this thread, made a long argument, and didn't come here with gunz blazing to insult people who didn't fit his moral cup of tea.

 

[JohnBlack007]

I'm in the Green Valley area, I wish Cox would give us a little more upload speed.

 

[SuperCyrix]

<< NetZero is in the position it's in because they advertised better than the other free internet companies and >>



Nope, because they offer a product at below cost and drove out competitors.

Rendus


<< s far as your comments to SuperCyrix go, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. He seems to feel entitled to unlimited free Internet access because the company, at one point, offered it >>



Please don't go putting words into my mouth. I said it sucked that unlimited free internet was coming to an end. I said it sucked, that I once had a great ISP and their promise of a free internet I no longer have(because of Netzero's broken promise of a free internet). I challenge you to point out where in any of my post I've stated I feel entitiled to unlimited free Internet access.

 

[Rendus]

<< I'm in the Green Valley area, I wish Cox would give us a little more upload speed. >>



Hah. I remember when the default service level was 512/64 (that's right, 64kbps up ). If you want faster upload, you could go to the commercial service.

I should probably disclaim this by saying I'm not speaking for my employer or anyone afiliated with them (I do tech support for Cox )

 

[SuperCyrix]

JohnBlack007,



<< You tried to circumvent NetZero's hour limit; that's stealing and nothing you say can justify it. >>


I've done nothing that Netzero's own program didn't allow me to do.

Now let me ask you and any other self proclaimed moral advocate.

In your computer, are there any MP3s that you don't own the CD to, not legally purchased software, hacks, or any other forum of software that's not 100% legal. Have you ever, borrow and installed oem software from your friend?

You don't have to answer this because I doubt anyone who frequent the HotDeal forum will spend the thousands of dollar in software money that is present in 99% of the computers here.

 

[Rendus]

<<

<< NetZero is in the position it's in because they advertised better than the other free internet companies and >>



Nope, because they offer a product at below cost and drove out competitors. >>



Your argument would work if they HAD driven out competitors.



<< Rendus


<< s far as your comments to SuperCyrix go, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. He seems to feel entitled to unlimited free Internet access because the company, at one point, offered it >>



Please don't go putting words into my mouth. I said it sucked that unlimited free internet was coming to an end. I said it sucked, that I once had a great ISP but because of Netzero and their promise of a free internet I no longer have. I challenge you to point out where in any of my post I've stated I feel entitiled to unlimited free Internet access. >>



Ok, here we go:



<< At first I got away with creating a new member/ID, but they caught on real quick and put an end to that.

then I clear the reg and some other netzero files and recreated member/id. Worked but they caught on to that too.

then I hooked up 3 computers for network, install a modem on each. They caught up to this real quick and allow only one of the PC to log on to the internet.

thanks netzero, for destroying free internet. By putting everyone else out of business. How ironic that they advertise free internet all over the airwave, yet, they are the ones who ultimately destroyed it. >>



All this effort to get around restrictions put in place certainly implies you expect the service for free, no matter the expense for the other parties involved.



<< No people like me don't expect free internet. But I don't expect free TV and free Radio either. But the thing is, free internet and cheap internet was here, but netzero destroyed it and they did drive out of business many other company. Their television ad for a free internet made them popular and destroyed competitors. >>



You start by trying to say you didn't expect it, but used it anyway. But now you're throwing a fit because what you want is no longer available. In other words, they offered it, and so did several other companies. Now that they're almost all gone, and the few remaining are about to go out of business, how DARE they try to turn things around!

And if they hadn't advertised, it wouldn't have mattered as the business model had no chance of making them a profit either way. I'm suprised NetZero hasn't filed for bankruptcy myself.



<< Then Netzero should never had given it away for free and alter the perimeters now. If that was the case, then nobody will have a problem with it. But that's not the case, people like me can't go back to the way things were. >>



I interpret this as saying &quot;Wah! They're not giving me unlimited free access anymore! How dare they try to change their business model!&quot;

The rest of your posts were either flames or too incoherent to make sense of.

-edit- Oh, and read your &quot;broken promise&quot; statement. They STILL provide free internet access. Just not the way you want it.

 

[StageLeft]

Free internet just feels to me like it should have gone when the .com bubble bursted and I suppose now its happening...

 

[MrCodeDude]

SuperCyrix, just shut up. Leave it be, you are insulting everyone who has a different view than you. Now, I'm not here to whine and moan saying that you should just pay $10 a month like I'm doing (and I'm 13), and stop whining. My small ISP has turned into a sub-company beneath Earthlink but it's only $100 a year, in fact, that's less than $10 a month. Think of it this way, NetZero CREATED the free internet community and they have NOT destroyed it. Just that they marketed better than the rest of the companies, causing them to lose business. It's competition and NetZero won, but now with the burst of the .com bubble, they HAVE to make adjustments, it was simply costing NetZero too much money to allow unlimited free access to the internet.
The Radio and Television are free to a point, regular TV stations are free, but w/Cable or Dish you have to pay, yet you get the whole shabang. And in order to not miss the show you're watching, you usually wait through the commercials. The same with the radio, with the station I listen to, they have 1 hour of straight songs twice a day, the rest of the day they get maybe 10 songs an hour, you figure 3.5 minutes per song, thats 35 minutes of songs, the rest of time is spent on guess what, ADVERTISING.

Just drop this subject, there is no RIGHT or WRONG answer to anyone's opinions about Free Internet Services, and by you insulting people with different opinions doesn't help you at all. I'm a Senior Member like you, not a Diamond or Platinum member and telling you to drop it, so why not listen to everyone else?
-- mrcodedude

 

[JohnBlack007]

hey rendus, do you get 1.5mbit upload speed?

 

[Rendus]

<< hey rendus, do you get 1.5mbit upload speed? >>



No, I actually no longer use the service, but I would have 512/128 (or higher, I'm willing to pay for it) if I hadn't gotten Speakeasy SDSL.

I think I've seen 1 company with the Level 400 (1.5/1.5) service. What'd they use it for? E-mail. -sigh-

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. It's rather pointless.

/me crawls back into the Distributed Computing forum

 

[SuperCyrix]

Rendus,
You are making some quantum leaps about my thoughts. Sorry, you're not a mind reader and what you wrote about me is wrong.



<< Your argument would work if they HAD driven out competitors. >>



Why don't you ask all those mom and pop ISP where all their customers went even while the internet was growing.



<< All this effort to get around restrictions put in place certainly implies you expect the service for free >>



Wrong, and stop putting words into my mouth. I want the service to be free and I do expect it to be free because that what Netzero advertised nationwide. &quot;Unlimited internet for free&quot; &quot;Never ever pay for internet service&quot; Remember those just a few months back? What you said is that I felt that I'm entitled to free internet. Nope, I've never said that. You are putting words into my mouth.





<< You start by trying to say you didn't expect it, but used it anyway. But now you're throwing a fit because what you want is no longer available. In other words, they offered it, and so did several other companies. Now that they're almost all gone, and the few remaining are about to go out of business, how DARE they try to turn things around! >>



Nope, people like me expected free internet access because Netzero advertised it. Nice choice of words to antagonize me, but I wouldn't call this a fit. I am not happy that they yank the free internet after they destroyed the other options.




<< I interpret this as saying &quot;Wah! They're not giving me unlimited free access anymore! How dare they try to change their business model!&quot;/Q]

I see you've resorted to insults too and disorted my words.
If netzero didn't want to hand out free internet liken now, then they shouldn't have even started.

 

[JohnBlack007]

Here's the bottom line:

you want quality internet service, you have to PAY for it.

 

[SuperCyrix]

<< SuperCyrix, just shut up. Leave it be, you are insulting everyone who has a different view than you. >>





<< Just drop this subject, there is no RIGHT or WRONG answer to anyone's opinions about Free Internet Services, and by you insulting people with different opinions doesn't help you at all. I'm a Senior Member like you, not a Diamond or Platinum member and telling you to drop it, so why not listen to everyone else? >>



It's very evident that you are only 13 and didn't bother to read anything. The only 3 people who I've insulted insulted me first. Do you think I should give up the right to defend myself?

 

[beer]

SuperCyrix -

OK, Mr. Master of Business and Defender of Immoral-but=Legal Practices:

Explain to me how a business can make money when a) they do not charge; b) they have to pay massive infrastructure costs; c) they have to pay support reps; d) people like you attempt to use NetZero for more than the initial allocated time.

I guess it's as simple as that. If you can make this business plan feasible, by all means, post it here! I'd be very excited to learn how I can pay bills without a source of revenue.