The Democrat downgrade...

[Jhhnn]

So why did the Democrats waste time on a "Reid" bill they know would never pass the Senate?
The "Reid" bill would never pass the Senate. It's not rocket science.
If you're suggesting that the "Reid" bill would have passed which was why Democrats spent time on it instead of them shitcanning it from the get-go, then you indeed are a moron.

Why wasn't the "Reid" bill shitcanned from the get go? Explain?

As majority leader, Reid sets the agenda. He's far from perfect.

 

[kage69]

nm dp

 

[senseamp]

You are just as bad as ProfJohn.
Not one Democrat in the Senate voted for it. It failed in the Senate 97-0.
And yet you're still blaming GOP for blocking it? How do you explain the missing 52 votes controlled by Democrats?
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00078

Oh, and this required only a simple majority vote. No one blocked anything.

Question: On the Motion to Proceed (Motion to Proceed to Consider S. Con. Res. 18 )
Vote Number: 78
Vote Date: May 25, 2011, 05:44 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2
Vote Result: Motion to Proceed Rejected
Vote Counts:YEAs 0
NAYs 97
Not Voting 3

Democrats, Republicans, and Tea parties are equally to blame.
The only person I don't blame is the President. Well, actually I blame him for not bringing the Simpson-Bowles commission to congress for a vote by using his bully pulpit...That's about it.

That's not the one Obama was negotiating with Boehner when Boehner bailed on tax hikes.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The most significant point is still that there was no necessity to combine the debt ceiling with any other spending bills. The Republicans did this and set the stage for everything else, including teabaggers saying that if the country couldn't pay its bills, so what.

Republicans did this because we had to address the 900lb gorilla of massive debt in the room. Furthermore this wasn't the first time a debt ceiling raise was accompanied by attempts to curb spending, i.e. see 1997 debt ceiling raise where the GOP controlled House got cuts in the budget in compromise with Clinton.

The Republicans set this whole deal up and ran into the ground. The Democrats would have passed a clean bill on the debt ceiling and not created any doubts about the country's willingness or ability to pay it's debts.

The Republicans started the fire, and argue all the points you want about who added what fuel to it, but the fact remains that it should be the right that gets charged with arson. And its the teabaggers that threw the bomb into the bonfire just for good measure.

So in other words Democrats wanted to continue living with their heads in the sand in regards to our debt and refused to compromise on even basic necessary and meaningful cuts to our budget. Instead your heroes shot down everything that had any teeth (including a balance budget amendment) to address our debt problems which if passed then in turn might of prevented or at least forestalled this credit downgrade by the S&P.

In addition to also explains why Democrats NEVER addressed the issue of our massive debt 2 years ago when they have not only the White House in their control, but also had Congress and the Senate with a super majority. What did your heroes in the Dem party do back then? Kick the can on this debate down the road at an attempt to gain political brownie points (1 year before a presidential election) while continuing the status quo of spending without regards to the future and along the way selecting new targets to demonize and pin the blame on. I mean how dare the Tea-Party members even suggest that we add in cuts with teeth or a balanced-budget amendment. That shit is anathema to all Dems thinking and rationale because you fucks think money can grow on trees and inflation is just what happens when blow up a party balloon to hand out to everyone that is bought and paid for at tax payer expense.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

As majority leader, Reid sets the agenda. He's far from perfect.

WTF...that's you're explanation? Really?

Surely you can do better than that.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh, please. The BBA is a sop to the rabid elements in their base that Repubs drag out when they're not in power. They never made a peep about it when they controlled the Executive and Legislative branches in the 2003-2007 timeframe- not a peep.

It took GWB about 10 seconds to reverse the tax & spending policies of his predecessor, create massive deficits out of thin air, then compound the problem with elective wars & more tax cuts. Repubs had no issues with his deficits... with doubling the national debt in 8 years' time...

 

[lothar]

That's not the one Obama was negotiating with Boehner when Boehner bailed on tax hikes.

Where are the details of that plan? Is it written down somewhere so we can read it to see what it was and what it did?

So are you saying it was $4 trillion before Boehner bailed on tax hixes, or after?

We've seen the stupid bills from Reid, Boener, Paul Ryan, and the Tea party's "cut, cap, & balance" that don't do anything to address the underlying problems. They are also written down so anyone here can read it.
Where is this proposal you're talking about? Supply written details of such a proposal from a credible source.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

That's not the one Obama was negotiating with Boehner when Boehner bailed on tax hikes.

That's because Obama had no freaking credible plan other then memorable speech highlights.

 

[Jhhnn]

WTF...that's you're explanation? Really?

Surely you can do better than that.

Yep. That's it, that's all there is. I can't read Harry Reid's mind, OK?

 

[Jhhnn]

Where are the details of that plan? Is it written down somewhere so we can read it to see what it was and what it did?

Asked & answered, above.

 

[jackschmittusa]

DucatiMonster696

The Democrats had nothing to do with combining the debt ceiling issue with spending cuts. No need to defend them on this issue.

They did not dismiss paying the bills as inconsequential.

A balanced budget amendment is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. You should learn them.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

14 minutes...but well worth it IMO.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/30/video-marco-rubio-vs-john-kerry-on-the-debt-crisis/

 

[DucatiMonster696]

DucatiMonster696

The Democrats had nothing to do with combining the debt ceiling issue with spending cuts. No need to defend them on this issue.

Democrats had everything to do with being obstructionists and voting down everything and anything that would of addressed the debt. Along with them not even addressing the issue when they had the ability to push through their "vision" (or lack thereof) unopposed 2 years ago.

They did not dismiss paying the bills as inconsequential.

They didn't even bother to read both GOP plans that were offered when they voted against those same plans. Meanwhile they had zero plans of their own up until the joke plan that Reid put out which even he filibustered and that demonstrates how contemptuous and irrational the Dem's were during this so called "debates".

A balanced budget amendment is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. You should learn them.

Its really only a bad idea if you plan on spending out of control without restraint or completely undermined such an amendment so that it has not actual teeth to enforce the sanity of spending wisely and within your means.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

And the dimness of those quoted above is like that of a black hole, sucking in the light around it.

The only dimness in this forum is the black hole of your constant "But...but...Buuuush!" and your blinded, idiotic partisan hackery. People like you and the equivalents on the far right are precisely why we're in the mess we're in. You're too busy cheerleading for "your team" and pointing fingers instead of sitting down, looking at the issues, and coming up with solutions that are right for America.

 

[dmcowen674]

The messiah has spoken:

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-says-in...BzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25zBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3

8-9-2011
Obama says he inherited economic problems



President Barack Obama said on Monday he inherited many of the country's problems with high debt and deficits when he entered the White House, sounding a theme likely to dominate his 2012 re-election campaign.

"We do have a serious problem in terms of debt and deficit, and much of it I inherited," Obama said. The financial crisis, he said, made the problem worse.

"As president of the United States my job is to work with Congress to try to get as much done as possible," he said.
"Whether we're going to see any progress out of this Congress right now -- because so far we haven't seen much when it comes to innovative ideas that actually put people to work and grow the economy -- remains to be seen."

 

[ProfJohn]

Oh look... more proof that the Democrats wanted a clean bill. One that would have lead to a downgrade...

Dear Democratic Leader Pelosi, Democratic Whip Hoyer, Assistant Democratic Leader Clyburn and Democratic Caucus Chair Larson:

Congress will soon be required to vote on whether to extend the debt limit which, according to Secretary Geithner, will be breached by mid-May.

We ask you to convene a caucus to discuss and establish a Democratic position in favor of a clean extension of the debt ceiling.

The debt ceiling vote is about one thing: affirming that America pays its bills. It does not authorize new taxpayer obligations; it affirms to the world our commitment to pay obligations already incurred.

To do otherwise, or to threaten to do so, or to leverage our duty to pay our bills to achieve a partisan advantage in budget disputes, jeopardizes the full faith and credit of the United States of America.

Sincerely,

Peter Welch

http://welch.house.gov/images/stories/PDF/debtceiling04152011.pdf
114 Democrats signed the letter. More than voted for the plan that actually raised the debt ceiling.

 

[ProfJohn]

Oh look... Harry Reid calling for a clean debt bill as well...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53212.html

In case you forget a clean debt bill would have essentially been an automatic downgrade.

 

[jackstar7]

The Economist's take: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/08/sps-credit-rating-cut

This is crucial. Sovereigns aren’t like companies. They can’t go bankrupt, and creditors can’t seize their assets. Their creditworthiness depends as much on their willingness as their ability to pay.

And it's been said before:

When you look at this final agreement that we came to with the White House, I got 98 percent of what I wanted. I'm pretty happy.

 

[soundforbjt]

Oh look... Harry Reid calling for a clean debt bill as well...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53212.html

In case you forget a clean debt bill would have essentially been an automatic downgrade.

Link that shows this claim before the political debt-ceiling fight.

 

[Jhhnn]

The only dimness in this forum is the black hole of your constant "But...but...Buuuush!" and your blinded, idiotic partisan hackery. People like you and the equivalents on the far right are precisely why we're in the mess we're in. You're too busy cheerleading for "your team" and pointing fingers instead of sitting down, looking at the issues, and coming up with solutions that are right for America.

Most of the right is so deep in denial that they really don't understand what we're facing, and that it has nothing to do with federal debt, at all, other than the fact that the govt is the only party that can or will act to create employment in this country.

Business has no incentive, because they're extraordinarily profitable on reduced payrolls, even with reduced demand. The FRB is up against a zero lower bound wrt monetary policy- they're practically charging negative interest for bank borrowing at this point, and what money they do create just gets hoarded.

Massive credit bubbles, like that of the railroad boom after the civil war, the stock market boom of the 1920's, and the Ownership Society of the oughts have very strong negative consequences- debt deflation spirals & liquidity traps that take a very long time to correct on their own. As a mature economy, it's even more difficult to create the kind of growth that can satisfy all the players- it's actually impossible.

If we can't borrow or tax so that govt can spend to create jobs, if we insist that govt actually cut back, then we intensify the negative effects. If that's really what we want, and I think that is what America's wealthiest do want, things will necessarily get a lot worse before they get better.

Like it or lump it, blame who you want, that's what's unfolding right now.

 

[ProfJohn]

And here is the White House arguing for a clean bill on April 11, 2011
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...s-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-4112011

MR. CARNEY: Without negotiating from here I will say that we support -- we believe that we should move quickly to raise the debt limit and we support a clean piece of legislation to do that.

MR. CARNEY: What I’m saying is that we support a clean piece of legislation to raise the debt ceiling

 

[ProfJohn]

And here is the point.

The Democrats WANTED a clean bill. If they had gotten what they WANTED we would have gotten a clean bill and that would have lead to a downgrade.

So bitch all you want about the tea party and how the fighting hurt our image.

At the end of the day if we had given Obama exactly what he WANTED it would have resulted in a downgrade.

If you want to blame the tea party for making the process worse than it had to be then go for it, but don't even try to pretend that the Democrats aren't guilty.

 

[Jhhnn]

And here is the point.

The Democrats WANTED a clean bill. If they had gotten what they WANTED we would have gotten a clean bill and that would have lead to a downgrade.

So bitch all you want about the tea party and how the fighting hurt our image.

At the end of the day if we had given Obama exactly what he WANTED it would have resulted in a downgrade.

If you want to blame the tea party for making the process worse than it had to be then go for it, but don't even try to pretend that the Democrats aren't guilty.

Total speculation based on partisan ideology- why am I not surprised?

 

[soundforbjt]

And here is the point.

The Democrats WANTED a clean bill. If they had gotten what they WANTED we would have gotten a clean bill and that would have lead to a downgrade.

So bitch all you want about the tea party and how the fighting hurt our image.

At the end of the day if we had given Obama exactly what he WANTED it would have resulted in a downgrade.

If you want to blame the tea party for making the process worse than it had to be then go for it, but don't even try to pretend that the Democrats aren't guilty.

Again, I'll ask you.

Link that shows this claim before the political debt-ceiling fight.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

And here is the point.

The Democrats WANTED a clean bill. If they had gotten what they WANTED we would have gotten a clean bill and that would have lead to a downgrade.

So bitch all you want about the tea party and how the fighting hurt our image.

At the end of the day if we had given Obama exactly what he WANTED it would have resulted in a downgrade.

If you want to blame the tea party for making the process worse than it had to be then go for it, but don't even try to pretend that the Democrats aren't guilty.

Then why are you pretending the GOP isnt in any way guilty? The blame for this goes all over and you're the one starting the Democrat Downgrade thread.

This is a giant shit sandwich that was made by everyone for the last 30 years. Get off your ass and start going after the people who represent you and demand they do so honorably. Don't sit here finger pointing and being a hack.