The Democratic Party's Middle America Heartland Problem

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obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
Yea, but then they come back with the usual to scare them into voting the Repubs back in cause abortion, guns, gays, beat out economics in the cons mindset.
EDIT: oops! forgot brown immigrants.

Of course they'll buy it again! Haven't you seen the "redneck safari" pieces where they interview riding mower dads in flyover who get Tucker beamed into their brains 24/7? Trump is doing a great job! Stock market is yuge! everything great! Kicked out all those mexicans..

These people don't live in reality, so what is actually happening doesn't matter! Besides, the "economy" stuff is BS. Surveys show that it was mainly about "cultural axiety" issues, read; racism. The fear that brown people might be doing better than them. They don't care if they suffer and loose their healthcare, as long as uppety black/brown people are doing worse.

Dems can hammer on the economy issues all they want, it won't do shit to win these people over. About 1/3 of voters are raging racists that dems can never win unless they out-racist GOP, the ones that decided the last election. They are lost. Dems need to find other voters to make up for it (cities, young people, hispanics etc) Fun fact: if hispanics had same turnout as rest of population the GOP would not be in control of anything..
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,591
29,297
136
Then why do people insist on blaming Dems ignoring the heartland when it seems pretty clear the heartland just want to be lied to.

How about pointing out this scenario

Republicans cut taxes for the rich
Deficit blows up.
Republicans shout OMG the deficit, we are so concerned about long term debt we need to cut your social security and medicare.
Democrats come in forced to fix, economy gets better.
Goto start

This cycle has already repeated itself twice since 1980 and those heartland people don't see it DIRECTLY effects them???
Abortion is murder. Nothing else matters. The only reason abortion is still legal is because we have too many filthy Democrats in power. I don't care how many child molesters I have to vote for to get them out, at least they will stop legalized murder.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,521
27,822
136
I wonder how Russians (the OP, for example) gather the intell needed to write wedge issue posts? Do they just read the comments sections of newspaper articles or do they have elite teams of operatives who hang out at Denny's listening to old men bitch about everything?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I wonder how Russians (the OP, for example) gather the intell needed to write wedge issue posts? Do they just read the comments sections of newspaper articles or do they have elite teams of operatives who hang out at Denny's listening to old men bitch about everything?

They just echo & reinforce Hannity, Breitbart, Carlson, Tucker, Coulter, the NRA & the rest. They love the way Trump fucks with people's minds more than anything.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Then why do people insist on blaming Dems ignoring the heartland when it seems pretty clear the heartland just want to be lied to.

How about pointing out this scenario

Republicans cut taxes for the rich
Deficit blows up.
Republicans shout OMG the deficit, we are so concerned about long term debt we need to cut your social security and medicare.
Democrats come in forced to fix, economy gets better.
Goto start

This cycle has already repeated itself twice since 1980 and those heartland people don't see it DIRECTLY effects them???

I'm just telling you like it is. @hal2kilo beat me to the punch. You point out valid thinking/talking points. These people in the rural areas don't want that. They get afraid of the message they are fed of liberals taking guns and killing babies and the elites on the coasts turning them into the gays.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,410
7,044
136
I like Andrew Yang a lot.

The progressives are working very hard to fight for the heartland.
It's the "neo-liberal" branch of the party which is the "mainstream" democrat. You can't trust people who take $$$ from big business

On that I agree whole heartedly which is why I despise Cory Booker taking pharma money.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,127
1,603
126
Oh, please. When Reagan convinced conservative America to put their faith in the Jerb Creators of Capitalism, they did, and they abandoned the principles of the New Deal at the same time. They let the rights of ownership reign supreme & screwed themselves in the process. They went along with the Libertopian delusion that the have-nots & have-a-littles can stand against the power of great wealth on an individual basis, one at a time. They abandoned Unions & declared that Govt was the problem, not the answer. They fell for every wedge issue the GOP offered up, too. Us against them. Small town vs urban. White against brown. Middle class against the mooching welfare queens. Native born against immigrants. Freedom lovers against evil regimented socialism. The list goes on forever.

But it must be Dems' fault, because they haven't fixed it. Never mind that they can't if people don't vote for them. Never mind that they've been losing at top down class warfare waged ruthlessly by the GOP. Never mind that the middle class won't win back the benefits of the share of income they've lost to the tippy top other than through taxes & redistribution into shared public goods & resources.

I am a registered democrat and a doner to the party. I'm not blaming them. I'm simply pointing out how they have failed.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,651
10,515
136
On that I agree whole heartedly which is why I despise Cory Booker taking pharma money.
I don't think that man has a chance in hell. But, Mayor Pete so far has taken most of the lobbyist money.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,837
8,302
136
Dems only need PA and Michigan and Trump is dead in the water.
Ya, that's the thing. Trump stole some key states that he's probably got trouble in now. He won by a razor's edge in 2016, and by ambush. Ambush won't be happening this time.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That is not a solution

Dems can't give them what they want which is for the Jerb Creators to come back. Even if we raise tariffs or subsidize production the whole thing has scaled up beyond Capitalism being interested in them much a-tall. We can't undo the technological progress that has rendered whole classes of employment nearly obsolete, either.

We can put money into their economies in a variety of ways but we'll have to tax the sacred Rich & employ big gubmint to do it. We'll subsidize small town hospitals, clinics, community centers, housing, schools & govt employment. We'll fix the roads & the infrastructure & hire them to do it & maintain it. We'll put money into all the forgotten corners of America but we won't have the money as long as people vote for tax cutting Republicans.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
I am in agreement with most of what @Jhhnn wrote above. Instead of UBI, for the heartland, government money is better spent investing in infrastructure and capability to restore the dignity of the middle class.
Heartland needs federal government money to restore dignity of its middle class?
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,127
1,603
126
Dems can't give them what they want which is for the Jerb Creators to come back. Even if we raise tariffs or subsidize production the whole thing has scaled up beyond Capitalism being interested in them much a-tall. We can't undo the technological progress that has rendered whole classes of employment nearly obsolete, either.

We can put money into their economies in a variety of ways but we'll have to tax the sacred Rich & employ big gubmint to do it. We'll subsidize small town hospitals, clinics, community centers, housing, schools & govt employment. We'll fix the roads & the infrastructure & hire them to do it & maintain it. We'll put money into all the forgotten corners of America but we won't have the money as long as people vote for tax cutting Republicans.

We should raise capital gains taxes to match income taxes, and we should also bring tax rates back in line with they were in the 50s and 60s during the biggest growth of the middle class this country has ever seen. (I'm talking 90% marginal rate for the top bracket, none of this watered down 70% business.)

We can't "un-automate" things, that is true, but, there is a LOT that could be done to bring some jobs back to the US which have been lost to overseas.

Furthermore, to ensure a fair open market and to ensure the politicians are serving the people (by that I mean fleshy people, not so called corporate person nonpersons), we need to break up monopolies, break up companies that collude with anticompetitive behavior or price fixing, and forbid all forms of political bribery. All political campaigns should be 100% publicly financed.

Look at media companies for example, used to be hundreds of independent news papers, radio stations, tv stations, now just a handful of conglomerates. This makes it a LOT harder to start up a new business if you are competing against deep pockets and infinite corruption.

Look at food, there used to be thousands of independent butchers, meat packers, mills, food processors, and various other businesses. Now a handful of companies control most of the farms and most of the food production across the whole country.

We also need to encourage companies who are in the US to stay in the US and to invest more in hiring in the US. Automation has killed a lot of jobs, but, also has allowed many factories to run efficiently and compete against cheaper foreign labor.

And Jhhnhn, just like you said, we need to invest heavily into the communities directly.

We need politicians who will stick their neck out to do their job. We need politicans to stop with the platitudes! We need them to stake their careers on "we are going to hire XXX people in the XXX region for XXX per month to do XXX job." Spell it all out in the campaign, so that if they fail to deliver, we can vote them out of office and get somebody in who will fight harder.
 
Reactions: Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,837
8,302
136
If red areas have that heartland work ethic why is their GDP so much lower than blue areas and why do they have so much trouble attracting competitive industries?

Most foods are global commodities, btw. The coasts could just as easily buy it from someone else.
I don't have the figures but I've heard that California is the most productive state in terms of agriculture.

OK, here it is:

What US states produce the most food? (Ranking 1-50)

California ranks first in the U.S. for agricultural cash receipts followed by Iowa, Texas, Nebraska and Illinois.

Ten states generate more than $10 billion in agricultural cash receipts: California ($43,544,001,000 and 11.63 percent of U.S. total), Texas, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Kansas, Indiana, Wisconsin and North Carolina.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Heartland needs federal government money to restore dignity of its middle class?
The heartland needs federal investment to replace the jobs lost to globalization, outsourcing and automation...similar to the investments made just prior to, during and just after WW2.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,285
28,142
136
I am in agreement with most of what @Jhhnn wrote above. Instead of UBI, for the heartland, government money is better spent investing in infrastructure and capability to restore the dignity of the middle class.
When Dems first propoed infrastructure to Trump he was only willing to fund 20%
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,285
28,142
136
The heartland needs federal investment to replace the jobs lost to globalization, outsourcing and automation...similar to the investments made just prior to, during and just after WW2.
But heartland has already been browbeaten into thinking government spending is bad. Even spending which multiplies in the economy and would benefit them.

Those job creators who got all the tax cuts will help them.

In other words how do you first get the heartland away from all the bullshit they've been fed for 30 years by the GOP??
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
If red areas have that heartland work ethic why is their GDP so much lower than blue areas and why do they have so much trouble attracting competitive industries?

Most foods are global commodities, btw. The coasts could just as easily buy it from someone else.

While I don't agree with the poster you quoted I think it's extremely important to have a prosperous & stable Ag sector. We want them to thrive along with the rest of us.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
You realize California is the largest diary producing state, right?

And you realize why don't you? Environmentally sustainable dairy farming like was practiced in Wisconsin for decades has been shafted for massively polluting mega-farms that are unbelievably inhumane for the cows and do real damage to the environment.

Couple the inhumane and environmentally damaging practices of California style dairies with massive federal handouts (for frigging mega farms) and tada you win. Screw the environment I guess and screw the cows as well...

 
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