The drought... 2 problems, one easy, the other not so much

[Muse]

#1: How many molecules of water are in 1 gallon (at, say, 70 degrees F, since the temperature will affect this, so maybe make it "approximate")?

#2: They are fighting it out politically, the super big/long oil pipeline. Why can't they/we eventually transport huge quantities of water (i.e. "sufficient" quantities) by pipelines (or canals) from areas that have abundant rainfall to areas that usually have relatively insufficient rainfall (at least Utah, Arizona, Nevada, California)?

It seems like Washington and even Oregon are drenched for much of the year, can't we get a lot of that water down to California? I haven't seen/heard discussion of this, so it's obviously difficult, but if drought conditions worsen, is it possible that this could be considered? I read something recently that scientists have determined that droughts of 200 years have occurred in this region. A severe drought of 200 years could wipe out the region, essentially, unless new methods are employed to provide water by means other than local rainfall (desalination or transport). I think I have seen discussion of hauling fresh water, dragging huge water-filled balloons behind ships! Please discuss.

 

[jaedaliu]

1) http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+many+molecules+of+water+are+in+1+gallon+of+water?

2) there already is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Aqueduct

When I was at Berkeley, Southern California stealing water was a common theme of discussion. With the current drought, I'm surprised it isn't still.

 

[CPA]

Only navigable water is controlled by the Feds. All of the water, the water that is used for consumption is controlled locally. So, unless you have those states and local authorities agreeable to providing their water, California is out of luck in getting it from anywhere but their backyard.

 

[rednas]

If water was not piped down to socal it would not have been able to support the population there millions of people ago. Issues like this arise when a desert becomes the second largest city in the country.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Keep watering your lawns. The water cycle will soon mean water for everyone!



(that has never worked and will never work because you have to can not accumulate enough to be of any use......STOP watering your lawns and let the billion dollar almond farmers owned by the pension funds waste it all)

 

[rednas]

Keep watering your lawns. The water cycle will soon mean water for everyone!

:roll:

depending what city one lives in southern California you might be obligated to keep your lawn watered or get fined. So stupid. They also make it illegal to replace ones lawn with something that does not have to be watered.

 

[FelixDeCat]

#1: How many molecules of water are in 1 gallon (at, say, 70 degrees F, since the temperature will affect this, so maybe make it "approximate")?

#2: They are fighting it out politically, the super big/long oil pipeline. Why can't they/we eventually transport huge quantities of water (i.e. "sufficient" quantities) by pipelines (or canals) from areas that have abundant rainfall to areas that usually have relatively insufficient rainfall (at least Utah, Arizona, Nevada, California)?

It seems like Washington and even Oregon are drenched for much of the year, can't we get a lot of that water down to California? I haven't seen/heard discussion of this, so it's obviously difficult, but if drought conditions worsen, is it possible that this could be considered? I read something recently that scientists have determined that droughts of 200 years have occurred in this region. A severe drought of 200 years could wipe out the region, essentially, unless new methods are employed to provide water by means other than local rainfall (desalination or transport). I think I have seen discussion of hauling fresh water, dragging huge water-filled balloons behind ships! Please discuss.

CA needs to build desalinization plants and sell water to cities. You are sitting by an OCEAN of water for Heaven's sake! D:

 

[FelixDeCat]

depending what city one lives in southern California you might be obligated to keep your lawn watered or get fined. So stupid. They also make it illegal to replace ones lawn with something that does not have to be watered.

HOA fines have been stopped by the State but local city fines might still be issued. Thats the stupid part.

 

[Chaotic42]

Why should Washington and Oregon alter their ecosystems by pumping water down to California?

California needs to either stop trying to turn a desert into a roofless greenhouse or start focusing on desalinization powered by relatively clean methods such as fission.

I support the second, but I don't see it happening.

 

[DrDoug]

I recently read that water consumption in one of the richest counties in CA was an average of 570+ gallons per day per person. In surrounding areas it was still hitting 300-400 gallons per day per person.

No wonder they are running out of water.

 

[John Connor]

California has plenty of water it's the dumb fuck politicians that messed it up.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Looks to me like they need more desalination plants. Perhaps they could build one near San Diego....ohh wait, they did:

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-largest-ocean-desalination-plant-goes-up-near

What's bad is the states that have oceans at their disposal. They need more coastline plants + pipelines. Increase the cost of water per gallon for the folks that use over X gallons and let the major consumers of water eat the costs.

 

[John Connor]

We need a new political party; i.e The Common Sense party.

But, but desalination plants contribute to "global warming."

Here's some crap to read. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-impacts-of-relying-on-desalination/


Next thing you know they will say desalination plants are killing endangered fish.

More BS. http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Desalination-plants-a-pricey-option-if-drought-5239096.php

Run 'em on natural gas!

 

[rednas]

California has plenty of water it's the dumb fuck politicians that messed it up.

you are right. But the water just happens to be found hundreds of miles from where most of the people who consume it live. Also, lots of water is used for farming.

 

[rednas]

We need a new political party; i.e The Common Sense party.

But, but desalination plants contribute to "global warming."

Here's some crap to read. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-impacts-of-relying-on-desalination/


Next thing you know they will say desalination plants are killing endangered fish.

More BS. http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Desalination-plants-a-pricey-option-if-drought-5239096.php

Run 'em on natural gas!

Everyone who either lives in California or has lived in California knows that 'common sense' is something that is severely lacking in the people who are in political office.

 

[imagoon]

depending what city one lives in southern California you might be obligated to keep your lawn watered or get fined. So stupid. They also make it illegal to replace ones lawn with something that does not have to be watered.

That pipe line destroyed the cities at the source. When it was built there were bombing to destroy it among other things.

 

[DrPizza]

I recently read that water consumption in one of the richest counties in CA was an average of 570+ gallons per day per person. In surrounding areas it was still hitting 300-400 gallons per day per person.

No wonder they are running out of water.

Look at the costs of transporting huge volumes of gasoline and oil. That's like 1-2 gallons per person per day. You're talking about hundreds of times the capacity of oil transport.

 

[Muse]

I recently read that water consumption in one of the richest counties in CA was an average of 570+ gallons per day per person. In surrounding areas it was still hitting 300-400 gallons per day per person.

No wonder they are running out of water.

I don't know where they get those figures, but in the heat of summer (when I water my vegetables) I've never been into triple figures in my gallons/day. Maybe they are figuring water consumption of a county as a whole divided by its population. Industry/government would use a big chunk.

 

[Muse]

California has plenty of water it's the dumb fuck politicians that messed it up.

I don't know, man, you should do more research before saying that. I'm not saying that politicians haven't fucked things up, but the region is arid. Read this:

Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water

That pipe line destroyed the cities at the source. When it was built there were bombing to destroy it among other things.

That story is elegantly related in the linked book.

you are right. But the water just happens to be found hundreds of miles from where most of the people who consume it live. Also, lots of water is used for farming.

In recent memory, there's not been near enough water to supply California's agriculture to anywhere near the tune they want to use.

Look at the costs of transporting huge volumes of gasoline and oil. That's like 1-2 gallons per person per day. You're talking about hundreds of times the capacity of oil transport.

Yeah, I figured that the difference in scale there is what distinguishes transport by pipeline of water from that of oil.

Still, presumably the technical/industrial capabilities of our civilization are going to increment, but the need for water remains, arguably increases. Droughts will happen regardless, potentially extended droughts of up to 200 years. The current situation IMO highlights the need to think big going forward on this issue. This problem won't disappear by virtue of a 3 year period of substantial rainfall, which is what people are praying for. They're going to have to plan something going forward.

 

[Muse]

1) http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+many+molecules+of+water+are+in+1+gallon+of+water?

The answer popped up... after 1/2 a minute:

The density of water is 1g/(cm3) so in 1 gallon of water ( about 3.785 Liters or 3785 cm3) the mass of the water is, 3785g. 1 mole of 6.02x1023 molecules of water has the mass in grams equal to the molecular weight or 18 grams per mole. so 3785 grams corresponds to about 1.265 x 10^26 molecules of water.

 

[mundane]

I don't know where they get those figures, but in the heat of summer (when I water my vegetables) I've never been into triple figures in my gallons/day. Maybe they are figuring water consumption of a county as a whole divided by its population. Industry/government would use a big chunk.

Rancho Santa Fe, 600 gallons per person per day. Calculated by 'water used in homes' / 'number of residents', so omits industrial, commercial, agricultural.

 

[cubby1223]

It's funny, isn't the overwhelming majority of bottled water in this country coming from California and shipped out across the country?

 

[T9D]

3/4 of Oregon is dry high desert by the way.

The rest that get's lots of rain, they are also always fighting for water rights too. And there are still some limits on how much water farmers can use. Sure there is a lot of rain but that rain made rivers and streams that needs to support the ecosystems for. If you suck it dry or lower it significantly then you destroy that. The salmon and fish population in Oregon is always a concern too.

We already send fliipen California our Wind Power from all the windmills farms out here. California needs to get their own crap together. That state is a pile of crap mess, don't shovel it off on everyone else.

 

[Muse]

3/4 of Oregon is dry high desert by the way.

The rest that get's lots of rain, they are also always fighting for water rights too. And there are still some limits on how much water farmers can use. Sure there is a lot of rain but that rain made rivers and streams that needs to support the ecosystems for. If you suck it dry or lower it significantly then you destroy that. The salmon and fish population in Oregon is always a concern too.

We already send fliipen California our Wind Power from all the windmills farms out here. California needs to get their own crap together. That state is a pile of crap mess, don't shovel it off on everyone else.

LOL. OK, here you go. Obviously, raiding OR for its water won't be easy, OK, probably impossible, they don't have enough even now.

I'm thinking way out in the future, not some 5 year plan to fix things.

Poking around this morning I found a book that I already put on hold at the library and I'm likely to buy:

Water 4.0: The Past, Present, and Future of the World's Most Vital Resource, by David Sedlak

 

[FleshLight]

Building a pipeline from Oregon or something to the SF Bay Delta would cost at least 50 billion dollars. Desal would cost at least 2 billion for each major city.