The Drug War And Holland

[DasFox]

Some interesting news I found:

Holland's potshop policies may be going through some changes, but statistics provided by the University of Amsterdam, the US Department of Health and Human Services, the British Home Office, the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA), and other institutions show Dutch citizens have far fewer problems with drug use and drug-related crime per capita than citizens of the United States and other countries where stricter prohibition is enforced.

The lifetime prevalence of marijuana use among US citizens over age 12 is 37%; the lifetime prevalence for their Dutch counterparts is 17%. The lifetime prevalence for heroin use is three times higher for Americans than it is for the Dutch. The percentage of the general population who have used cocaine is 10.5% in the US, five times higher than in the Netherlands.

Holland's tolerance of soft drugs also seems comparatively successful in regards to the policy's effects on drug-related health problems, violence, and societal expenditures on criminal behavior.

According to EMCDDA, there were 2.4 drug-related deaths per million inhabitants in the Netherlands in 1995. In France this figure was 9.5, in Germany 20, in Sweden 23.5 and in Spain 27.1. The Dutch have the lowest drug-related death rate in Europe.

The Dutch AIDS prevention program is also superior: Europe-wide, an average of 39.2% of AIDS victims are intravenous drug-users. In the Netherlands, this percentage is as low as 10.5%.

The US spends nearly twice as much on police and prisons per citizen as is spent by Holland per person. US per capita spending on criminal justice in 1998 was $511 US per person; in Holland, 289$ US per person was spent.

So this would mean that the US is a safer society, right? Wrong. The US had an average of six murders per 100,000 citizens from 1999-2001; in the same period, Holland had 1.5 murders per 100,000 citizens.

 

[brxndxn]

I think my generation will legalize pot once the idiot baby-boomers start getting too old to retain power. Generation X was crushed.. My generation? We'll do better.

 

[TruePaige]

"Smoke...allll daaayyy"

0.o

 

[sniperruff]

the key is to curb the demand, not the supply.

 

[db]

Unfortunately, many people simply are not persuaded by facts or logic.
In the US, any public figure who dares to propose reason regarding drug policy is branded as "Soft on drugs", and that usually shuts them up.
Drug cartels, dealers, police and certain government agencies have a moneyed interest in keeping things as they are.

 

[DasFox]

Anyone have any evidence that points to the USA using cannabis for trade?

I've heard that the USA keeps cannabis also illegal because it gives them a very valuable commodity to trade with.

 

[Greenman]

Are those stats saying that 37% of the US population are getting high?

 

[George P Burdell]

Originally posted by: Greenman
Are those stats saying that 37% of the US population are getting high?

No, I think it's saying at 37% have, at some point during their entire life, lit up.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
I think my generation will legalize pot once the idiot baby-boomers start getting too old to retain power. Generation X was crushed.. My generation? We'll do better.

If fundy evangelicals out breed everyone else, it won't happen

 

[Scarpozzi]

It's not a level playing field. The article mentions more cocaine use in the US. The drug runners are obviously coming up from South America to the US...it's not that far and 1 plane of cargo goes a long way $$...

If Holland were closer to the cartels we're close to, they would have similar issues.

Having said that, the statistics are positive, but until the government can get their taxes off the goods, they won't make it legal. (oops...I meant to add: a politician that proposes a drug tax is one that is for legalizing drugs. To most, it would kill their career since most americans are closed minded on the subject)

 

[clamum]

Originally posted by: db
Unfortunately, many people simply are not persuaded by facts or logic.
In the US, any public figure who dares to propose reason regarding drug policy is branded as "Soft on drugs", and that usually shuts them up.
Drug cartels, dealers, police and certain government agencies have a moneyed interest in keeping things as they are.

Pretty much. They must be making money and creating jobs by keeping the status quo. Cause they sure aren't illegal because the government cares about it's citizens so much, or that if they are legal the whole country will be a bunch of drug addicts.

Plus part of the problem too is that I think too many people who suggest other solutions to drugs (e.g., legalization of some of them) are looked at as crazy... just sort of the stigma that's attached with someone who has an open mind about drugs (like what Scarpozzi said).

People have been doing drugs since there was people. Keeping them illegal and throwing people in jail for smoking pot isn't going to stop this.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Ron Paul for Prez!

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
I think my generation will legalize pot once the idiot baby-boomers start getting too old to retain power. Generation X was crushed.. My generation? We'll do better.

your generation? stoners?

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Up in Canada, Vancouver is at odds with the Feds over how to handle the drug problem. Many people here, (I include myself) feel that treatment is the way to go - the evidence shows that tough sentences and punitive measures are ineffective.

Full article

The federal government this week extended the special exemption that allows Insite to operate until June 30. The facility averages about 600 visits a day and has referred almost 2,000 people to some form of addiction treatment or counselling over the past four years.

Harper admitted Thursday that he remains skeptical about Insite and said even if it's effective, it's a "second-best strategy at best."

Critics of the government said the reprieve for the Vancouver site was just designed to get the controversy over the harm-reduction policy off the table in time for Harper's drug-strategy announcement.

Ann Livingston, program director for VANDU, the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users, called the announcement "electioneering" and said tougher enforcement tends to make the drug trade even more lucrative for organized criminals.

She was full of questions for Harper. "Who are we copying and why?" she asked. "Where has this approach actually worked?"

Liberal and New Democratic Party critics said the government is embracing a U.S.-style "war on drugs" that treats drug abuse as more of a criminal matter than a health issue.

The Canadian Police Association, meanwhile, has expressed support for the government's get-tough approach to drugs.

The organization has called for stronger legislation and a new system of graduated consequences to prevent and deter drug use.

db - you're spot-on.

 

[Auric]

The War on Drugs is like the War of Terror, err, on Terror.

Both drugs and terrorism are supremely e-vil, fearful, and pervasive things right? Not so much. Not really significant or at best can certainly be managed with less fuss and exponentially less expense. But that's the thing: it's all about money. Follow the trail... who benefits from overblown fear and spending?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
I think my generation will legalize pot once the idiot baby-boomers start getting too old to retain power. Generation X was crushed.. My generation? We'll do better.

I don't feel crushed. Of course, I'm at the cusp between generations. But very few of my peers feel that it should be illegal, even those that never have and never will partake.

 

[Summitdrinker]

Or is it that Dutch culture and society are different to begin with, which makes the difference in the end. Or how about possible genetic difference?
Even thou there soft on weed, I take it the overall mood of there society is against smoking it, esp. on a regular basis.
And of those that do smoke it there how many are not of true Dutch origin, well immigrants?


so what are the changes recently of there pothouse policy?

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
Or is it that Dutch culture and society are different to begin with, which makes the difference in the end. Or how about possible genetic difference?
Even thou there soft on weed, I take it the overall mood of there society is against smoking it, esp. on a regular basis.
And of those that do smoke it there how many are not of true Dutch origin, well immigrants?


so what are the changes recently of there pothouse policy?

The Netherlands have historically been more individualistic, free, and tolerant, likely due to being a major trading center in the recent past.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
the key is to curb the demand, not the supply.

that wont ever happen

 

[Summitdrinker]

the point I was trying to make is just becuase it works there, doesn't mean it work well in other countries

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: db
Unfortunately, many people simply are not persuaded by facts or logic.
In the US, any public figure who dares to propose reason regarding drug policy is branded as "Soft on drugs", and that usually shuts them up.
Drug cartels, dealers, police and certain government agencies have a moneyed interest in keeping things as they are.

"Facts can be used to prove anything that's even remotely true."


Berkeley Breathed had a nice bit on the drug trade in his Bloom County strip. It was found that cat sweat caused incredible hair growth - a baldness cure. 10 cents per bottle.
Then the government declared it a controlled substance. New price: $25,000 per bottle. Then Milo sent the government a thank you note, for their generous price support for a small business. It led to smuggling operations, an expensive and ineffective drug interdiction effort by the government, and gang wars. Then cat sweat was again legalized. The pushers started yelling about "restraint of trade."

Forbidden fruit - people will just want it that much more, and to get it, they'll have to deal with shady people.


Something else I'd like to know - how do the rates of alcohol and tobacco usage in the US vs Holland compare? Are they as addicted to those drugs as this country is?