The El Budgeto robot thread.

cheesehead

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
10,079
0
0
I'm part of a student robotics club. While my knowlege of programming is near-nonexistent (I'm the "IT guy" - I just make the crappy computers we were given actually function), I'd like to see if I can use some scrounged parts and assorted bits I've got sitting around into a robot.

In the competitions, we've been using high-end PICmicros for "brains". That said, these are PICs - a TI-83 is remarkably fast when compared to a TI81, but it's still just a calculator. We have the same problem - trying to interface a video sensor has been insanely difficult, and autonomous operation is limited by the fact that our onboard CPU is, very simply, incapable of anything interesting.

However, I have a nifty toy I grabbed a while back - a single-board computer with a standard IDE controller, video output, and serial outputs. It's currently equipped with 64mb of RAM and a K6-II 233, but I hope to upgrade it to a K6-II 400 or better, and at least 128mb of RAM. It's only a bit bigger than a Nano-ITX board, and runs off of a convenient 12v. It might even have a USB port - my leg's broken, so I can't get the confounded thing out and check.

My plan goes as follows:
1. Build a control board, with a PICmicro, two ginormous H-bridges (yay, overkill!), rotary encoders, and hobby-servo PWM outputs. Using a serial I/O, this PIC will take serial data from the SBC, and use it to control the two drive motors and assorted hobbby servos connected. In addition, it will send back rotary encoder data, and can regulate the speed of the wheels by monitoring the rotary encoder. If programmed to do so, this should allow the robot to putter about - but it won't have enough power to do anything interesting.

2. Build a sensor board. This is, very simply, a PIC that takes data from assorted sensors, and sends it back to the SBC through a second serial connection. I'd also like to be able to use it to take data from other sensors that use serial connections, and relay it to the SBC.

3. Mount the SBC. Add assorted computer accessories, possibly including a webcam, for assorted purposes. It's not like there's a shortage of them.
 

Lord Banshee

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2004
1,495
0
0
sounds like a cool project but i have a question i have done some micro controller projects at school but never interfaced them with a real computer other than sending data though a serial port.

What is your plan on doing this and what do others think about method of accomplishing this? Just wondering as a PC has many I/O connections that i have no clue how to use (PCI, PCI-E, IDE, and SATA).
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
I suggest you look into the "First" competition kit. They have cameras that we are using this year that do the calculations themselves and return only the pertanent data. Point of fact, we're using a single pic with 128k program space, max length of 256 byes per variable / array, and we're doing vision, multiple PID controlls, a pneumatics system, and all for a 150 pound robot.

If you'd like to see what folks are doing, check out www.chiefdelphi.com/forums and look at the robot showcase.

You'll also find many examples of programming in the programming forum.

These robots can push a fully grown person around while he's sitting on the floor, can lift 2 people off the floor - take a look. You might get an answer to your question.

We are using dual encoders, a gyro, a camera, 4 wheel 4 motor drive, and an arm with 4 degrees of freedom.
 

cheesehead

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
10,079
0
0
Originally posted by: Pulsar
I suggest you look into the "First" competition kit. They have cameras that we are using this year that do the calculations themselves and return only the pertanent data. Point of fact, we're using a single pic with 128k program space, max length of 256 byes per variable / array, and we're doing vision, multiple PID controlls, a pneumatics system, and all for a 150 pound robot.

As a participant in a FIRST team for three years, I'm quite familiar with the robots. They're all very nice for what they do - which is, strictly speaking, just recieve signals from a control unit and send them to the motors and whatnot. (And don't get me started on the CMUCam -the PIC does'nt have the horsepower to deal with image recognition, and the onboard CMUCam microprocessor is, according to the GE engineer who tried to figure it out, not worth the effort of making something that won't work very well anyway.)

Also, the "competition kit" costs at least $1,500 plus assorted building materials. It might be $2,000.

My budget is in the $200 or less range, plus scrounged parts.

Main computer - $40 (already got it)
CompactFlash->IDE adapter - $7 (have it)
Motors: I have some I scrounged from some PowerWheels cars.
Motor controller board: Budgeted at $25 + rotary encoders to be added later
Servo control unit: $26
12v lead-acid battery from RadioShack: $30
I/O control board: Budgeted at $20 (It's just a PIC with some headers!)

etc. etc. etc.

Originally posted by: Lord Banshee
sounds like a cool project but i have a question i have done some micro controller projects at school but never interfaced them with a real computer other than sending data though a serial port.

What is your plan on doing this and what do others think about method of accomplishing this? Just wondering as a PC has many I/O connections that i have no clue how to use (PCI, PCI-E, IDE, and SATA).

A PC's serial port (you know, the 9-pin one that's nearly nonexistent on today's computers and looks like a VGA port?) is EXACTLY the same as the serial ("UART") connection on a microcontroller - just at a different voltage. Coincidentally, there are lots of ICs designed to do fix the voltage level problem,.

We use the serial port for debugging, and monitoring sensor data. Why not send data the other way, too?

As a side note, PICs are very, very good at a few things - namely, PWM and analog-digital conversion - that take up a lot of CPU cycles to do in software. However, they're lousy at floating-point math (no decimals!), have very little programming room, and interfacing them to anything interesting (for example, a Bluetooth adapter or camera) costs a lot.

Quick comparison:

Parallax Inc. EmbeddedBlue bluetooth adapter: $70
Generic USB Bluetooth adapter: $10

Serially-connected MMC/SD card adapter for microcontrollers: $50
Generic SD card reader: About $6.

CMUcam video camera with basic image recognition hardware: $130
Cheap webcam from Used Computer Parts Store in town that works under Linux' free image recognition software: $12.

What I'd like to do is split the robot up into three sections: The serially connected motor controller board, servo controller board, and I/O board. Each of these is modular, upgradable, and programmable.

As a side note, I found a decidedly awesome gizmo:

$23 Pololu 8-servo serial servo controller!
http://www.pololu.com/products/pololu/0727/

This allows you to control 8 hobby servos, or anything else with a PWM input.. This includes R/C car ESCs, which are essentially very powerful bi-directional motor controllers.




 
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