The elite liberals and racism

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Exactly, the argument that liberals are to blame for Donald Trump is ridiculous and paternalistic. The people who voted for Donald Trump are responsible for Donald Trump, not the people who didn't vote for them.

Conservatives have agency, just like liberals. They chose to exercise it poorly.
It's the Trump response, never take responsibility for any bad outcomes.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Can't force people to write his name or check it off. The people voted for him bear the responsibility that goes with it.
I never suggested otherwise, but the people who normalized him such that he was even an option bare some of the blame.

GOP voters made their bed, they can now sleep in it.

I am not going to give a free pass to those who gleefully cheered the circus sideshow, that is until it backfired spectacularly.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,995
18,344
146
I never suggested otherwise, but the people who normalized him such that he was even an option bare some of the blame.

GOP voters made their bed, they can now sleep in it.

I am not going to give a free pass to those who gleefully cheered the circus sideshow, that is until it backfired spectacularly.

Republican voters primaried him and put him in the position, they bear the responsibility for their vote
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Republican voters primaried him and put him in the position, they bear the responsibility for their vote
Yes they do. So do the pied piper strategists who saw Trump as a useful idiot to take out and/or weaken Rubio or Bush.

Some helpful articles from the time:

“Why I'm More Worried About Marco Rubio Than Donald Trump,"Vox

“Donald Trump Is Actually a Moderate Republican," Slate

"Why Cruz Is Worse Than Trump" The New York Times' Paul Krugman.

“Why Liberals Should Support a Trump Republican Nomination" NYMag

Brilliant strategy
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Yes they do. So do the pied piper strategists who saw Trump as a useful idiot to take out and/or weaken Rubio or Bush.

Some helpful articles from the time:

“Why I'm More Worried About Marco Rubio Than Donald Trump,"Vox

“Donald Trump Is Actually a Moderate Republican," Slate

"Why Cruz Is Worse Than Trump" The New York Times' Paul Krugman.

“Why Liberals Should Support a Trump Republican Nomination" NYMag

Brilliant strategy

Well I looked at Krugman's and I think he's right. Trump's trade war is stupid and needlessly destructive but his appointments for monetary policy have been fine. Cruz's economic stupidity could have included a lot of complete monetary bat-shittery that would have been far more economically destructive to the US than Trump's ignorance and stupidity. He wasn't referring to anything outside of their economic policies.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
Yes they do. So do the pied piper strategists who saw Trump as a useful idiot to take out and/or weaken Rubio or Bush.

Some helpful articles from the time:

“Why I'm More Worried About Marco Rubio Than Donald Trump,"Vox

“Donald Trump Is Actually a Moderate Republican," Slate

"Why Cruz Is Worse Than Trump" The New York Times' Paul Krugman.

“Why Liberals Should Support a Trump Republican Nomination" NYMag

Brilliant strategy
All still pretty true. With the exception of trade wars, we get the same policies except with less bumbling, and the trade wars hurt Trump voters, so...
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Well I looked at Krugman's and I think he's right. Trump's trade war is stupid and needlessly destructive but his appointments for monetary policy have been fine. Cruz's economic stupidity could have included a lot of complete monetary bat-shittery that would have been far more economically destructive to the US than Trump's ignorance and stupidity. He wasn't referring to anything outside of their economic policies.
So it makes sense to normalize a known sexist and racist so long as his monetary policy is sound?

The plan was to disrupt the greater threat of Rubio and Bush in favor of the easily defeatable Trump.

It backfired
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,995
18,344
146
Yes they do. So do the pied piper strategists who saw Trump as a useful idiot to take out and/or weaken Rubio or Bush.

Some helpful articles from the time:

“Why I'm More Worried About Marco Rubio Than Donald Trump,"Vox

“Donald Trump Is Actually a Moderate Republican," Slate

"Why Cruz Is Worse Than Trump" The New York Times' Paul Krugman.

“Why Liberals Should Support a Trump Republican Nomination" NYMag

Brilliant strategy
I did not read any of those, and I seriously doubt republicans are either. Maybe some independents, and the articles may not be off base at all. All in all, if republicans had a Rubio or Cruz in office, I think the fleecing of America would be stepped up a couple notches, so just based in the headlines...

Republicans normalized him by ticking his name off. 62 million voters normalized him. Trying to divert attention away from that is just playing the blame game.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,995
18,344
146
So it makes sense to normalize a known sexist and racist so long as his monetary policy is sound?

The plan was to disrupt the greater threat of Rubio and Bush in favor of the easily defeatable Trump.

It backfired
Ask 62 million voters if they give a shit.

Ask Alabama if they give a shit.

Edit: your ninja edit, lol....the plan was to play the nominee the best way they thought they could. Sure, it didn't go as well as hoped, but that doesn't change 62 million voters choices, nor doesn't it change the fact that millions we're subject to trolling from a propoganda machine foreign power.

These are hard truths.

It's time to stop blaming Democrats because your feels.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,390
11,742
136
The difference, of course is that one set is unbearable and the others are very fine people.




/s


Hey...there are fine people on both sides...our illustrious Dear Leader said it...so it MUST be true...

(edit: dammit, I didn’t notice this thread was several months old...In Trumplandia, that’s at least a dozen scandals)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
So it makes sense to normalize a known sexist and racist so long as his monetary policy is sound?

The plan was to disrupt the greater threat of Rubio and Bush in favor of the easily defeatable Trump.

It backfired

I agree that the goal was to elect a more easily defeated candidate and that clearly didn't happen, haha. Still though, a decent argument can be made that from an economic standpoint Rubio, Bush, or Cruz would have been even more destructive to the US economy than Trump. (foreign policy wise they would have been much better though, I imagine) I mean which one of Trump's shitty domestic economic policies do you think they wouldn't have taken? If anything their greater competence might have caused even more economic damage.

I think you raise a valid point that the damage Trump has ended up doing in non-economic areas has been bad enough that it may outweigh whatever additional economic damage the other clowns would have wrought. He's certainly worse from a constitutional stability standpoint. From an economic standpoint though? Probably better. Note that 'better' means 'less catastrophically bad'.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Ask 62 million voters if they give a shit.

Ask Alabama if they give a shit.

Edit: your ninja edit, lol....the plan was to play the nominee the best way they thought they could. Sure, it didn't go as well as hoped, but that doesn't change 62 million voters choices, nor doesn't it change the fact that millions we're subject to trolling from a propoganda machine foreign power.

These are hard truths.

It's time to stop blaming Democrats because your feels.
The same Alabamans who were a few percentage points from sending a pedophile to the Senate. Red state rubes and Republican Party take the hit for the worst President in history.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,652
10,515
136
That's racism, calling the POTUS racist, just because he's white. MLK's niece, Alveda King, is a personal friend of his. She says he's not racist. I have hispanic friends who work for the organization, who also say he's not racist. The media drums that shit out and the sheeple have eaten it up. Keep those nose rings in, peeps. Saul Alinsky is still alive and well with his divide and conquer strategy.
Is there supposed to be a /s?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,652
10,515
136
Hey guys, our friend Noah here has his finger on the pulse of the ‘low level liberal circles’. What are these circles and how did you come to get such insider knowledge of them?

Lol, your bullshit is so utterly transparent.
They always know more about us than we know about ourselves. Must be lack of introspection on our parts.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,652
10,515
136
Not if based on unconscious unexamined assumptions;



If if if



How can bitterness and objectivity co-exist?



We call observations made objectively about reality objective observations. We call moral evaluations about people being sanctimonious relative to their moral values.



The truth may be that we don't know what it is and that's the truth.



I agree. Conservatism manifests with fear and uncertainty. But in my opinion that just means that whatever evokes fear and uncertainty from time to time and place to place is just the local expression of any number of potential triggers. To me that means the important piece of data isn't that fixing the environment is the answer, although it can't help but help, but that rather people who understand themselves aren't subject to such manipulation. My contention that for a lack of better words 'enlightened' people can't be manipulated by external triggers having died to the belief in such triggers.
He defines sanctimonious.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,652
10,515
136
What about Chicago?

It’s beautiful city, pretty good food, nice lake, safer than Atlanta too. Only problem is the hockey team.
You are not getting it. This is an indirect jab at Obama and Chicago democrats. Facts won't matter.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Some of my worldview change has come from conversations on this site but most has come from information that I have observed on youtube. It is the only platform I am aware of where unfiltered information can be garnered. One of the most devastating pieces was a speech given by John Pilger, perhaps the greatest living journalist in our time. His critique of the Western media is beyond scathing. It is an indictment of Western civilization itself

Took you a long time. Its been abundantly clear to me for a while now. More than a while. A long time

As for news in the West, it is really just propaganda - the entire frame of reference is bogus and deeply immoral. Based as it is on this inherent belief in the superiority of the white man, his materialistic 'values' and his right to subjugate other people. So all the wailing and weeping about 'fake news', I find rather amusing. News has always been fake around here.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
Took you a long time. Its been abundantly clear to me for a while now. More than a while. A long time

As for news in the West, it is really just propaganda - the entire frame of reference is bogus and deeply immoral. Based as it is on this inherent belief in the superiority of the white man, his materialistic 'values' and his right to subjugate other people. So all the wailing and weeping about 'fake news', I find rather amusing. News has always been fake around here.
You seem to be conflating news and editorializing.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
You seem to be conflating news and editorializing.

No Sir. I've been following news for a long time. TV and print. What they cover, what they don't cover, what sort of words they use to describe the news. It is deeply insidious. There are intellectuals in the West who have written extensively about it. Chomsky is one. Howard Zinn is another. But you don't need to read any of them. Once you realize the media here, how its entire frame of reference is bogus and immoral, it is not hard to see the propaganda agents they are. Thankfully with the advent of Internet, you can still access some level of actual news.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,001
14,528
146
No Sir. I've been following news for a long time. TV and print. What they cover, what they don't cover, what sort of words they use to describe the news. It is deeply insidious. There are intellectuals in the West who have written extensively about it. Chomsky is one. Howard Zinn is another. But you don't need to read any of them. Once you realize the media here, how its entire frame of reference is bogus and immoral, it is not hard to see the propaganda agents they are. Thankfully with the advent of Internet, you can still access some level of actual news.

So what outlets/sources would you say are "actual news?"
 
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