The elite liberals and racism

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,294
6,352
126
Wow, you know immigrants AND Muslims? Such a worldly man. I hear you also live in a big city, which is very impressive as well.
I think it just means that immigrants as with everybody else, believe all kinds of things but just believing them doesn't make them real. People who believe the world's ills will end when one party is elected see everything in terms of their own self interest in how the vote goes. The fear of losing will create the delusion that somebody is out to get the vote that should, in a morally just world according to them, rightfully go to them.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
I believe that to be true now as well. This represents a rather large worldview change for me.

..The data to me could not be more clear. When I look at income inequality by state, the worst ten include Democratic states, New York at number 1 and California at number 7. When at I look at the poverty rate adjusted for cost of living I see California at the top with a staggering 24% with New York a bit better at 18% (my own state of Wisconsin has a poverty rate of 10%, my state also has some of the least wealth inequality). When I then look at economic security, I once again run into New York and California in the bottom 12. ...

You think a contributing factor could also be the major cities that are in those states as well?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,294
6,352
126
I believe that to be true now as well. This represents a rather large worldview change for me.

The data to me could not be more clear. When I look at income inequality by state, the worst ten include Democratic states, New York at number 1 and California at number 7. When at I look at the poverty rate adjusted for cost of living I see California at the top with a staggering 24% with New York a bit better at 18% (my own state of Wisconsin has a poverty rate of 10%, my state also has some of the least wealth inequality). When I then look at economic security, I once again run into New York and California in the bottom 12.

Democrats have had DECADES in these states to address these issues via a progressive income tax and creation of more housing aimed at the middle and lower classes. They have not done this patently obvious step. This brings us to today where they have jumped into identity politics sewer with Republicans to incite enmity between the races. It is a good diversion for them. It of course does not a damn thing to help the people they purportedly want to help but is certainly effective in telling them who they should hate. Tribalism 101 for the win y'all.

I have been watching a lot of debates between professors lately about the collapse of civilizations. The people I watched pointed out two characteristics of collapsing civilizations.

1. Relative wealth inequality within a society. America now has more wealth inequality than at any time in its history. It is worse now that it was before the Great Depression. America is breaking into a caste system where the powerful own political puppets who do nothing except for those controlling them. It looks like it is now a political impossibility to ever address the wealth inequality. The Democrats seem to only speak on this topic in the realm of race. If they spoke of it in terms of CLASS and spoke of it every day for a year to the exclusion of damn near everything else and truly advocated for a strong progressive tax, I believe they would win in a landslide. I believe this is what society wants most and what is being denied to them. There is a reason that they have lost 9% of millennials in the last year and it has much to do with what the Democratic Party is talking about and what they are not talking about.

2. Scarcity of resources. We seem pretty safe on this one at the moment. Wonder what will happen when China/India start consuming resources at our level.

The other thing that was kind of frightening was the assertion that as collapse occurs, tribalism always comes back and accelerates the process The Middle East is an exceptional evidence of that. Tribalism is both a symptom and a cause of civilization death. It is the canary in the coal mine.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-millennials-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1I10YH
https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/income-inequality-states-biggest-wealth-gaps.html/?a=viewall
That is what I would call a progressive democratic view, wealth inequality by class rather than race.
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
I believe that to be true now as well. This represents a rather large worldview change for me.

The data to me could not be more clear. When I look at income inequality by state, the worst ten include Democratic states, New York at number 1 and California at number 7. When at I look at the poverty rate adjusted for cost of living I see California at the top with a staggering 24% with New York a bit better at 18% (my own state of Wisconsin has a poverty rate of 10%, my state also has some of the least wealth inequality). When I then look at economic security, I once again run into New York and California in the bottom 12.

Democrats have had DECADES in these states to address these issues via a progressive income tax and creation of more housing aimed at the middle and lower classes. They have not done this patently obvious step. This brings us to today where they have jumped into identity politics sewer with Republicans to incite enmity between the races. It is a good diversion for them. It of course does not a damn thing to help the people they purportedly want to help but is certainly effective in telling them who they should hate. Tribalism 101 for the win y'all.

I have been watching a lot of debates between professors lately about the collapse of civilizations. The people I watched pointed out two characteristics of collapsing civilizations.

1. Relative wealth inequality within a society. America now has more wealth inequality than at any time in its history. It is worse now that it was before the Great Depression. America is breaking into a caste system where the powerful own political puppets who do nothing except for those controlling them. It looks like it is now a political impossibility to ever address the wealth inequality. The Democrats seem to only speak on this topic in the realm of race. If they spoke of it in terms of CLASS and spoke of it every day for a year to the exclusion of damn near everything else and truly advocated for a strong progressive tax, I believe they would win in a landslide. I believe this is what society wants most and what is being denied to them. There is a reason that they have lost 9% of millennials in the last year and it has much to do with what the Democratic Party is talking about and what they are not talking about.

2. Scarcity of resources. We seem pretty safe on this one at the moment. Wonder what will happen when China/India start consuming resources at our level.

The other thing that was kind of frightening was the assertion that as collapse occurs, tribalism always comes back and accelerates the process The Middle East is an exceptional evidence of that. Tribalism is both a symptom and a cause of civilization death. It is the canary in the coal mine.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-millennials-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1I10YH
https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/income-inequality-states-biggest-wealth-gaps.html/?a=viewall


You have some valid points but in todays world even the poor/middle class have access to many of the luxuries as the rich which imho changes the equation mentioned in point #1. The major advantage the rich have is the access to the availability of scarce/expensive resources. When resources become scarce their quality of life could remain constant while everybody elses goes to hell.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,548
16,379
146
I believe that to be true now as well. This represents a rather large worldview change for me.

The data to me could not be more clear. When I look at income inequality by state, the worst ten include Democratic states, New York at number 1 and California at number 7. When at I look at the poverty rate adjusted for cost of living I see California at the top with a staggering 24% with New York a bit better at 18% (my own state of Wisconsin has a poverty rate of 10%, my state also has some of the least wealth inequality). When I then look at economic security, I once again run into New York and California in the bottom 12.

Democrats have had DECADES in these states to address these issues via a progressive income tax and creation of more housing aimed at the middle and lower classes. They have not done this patently obvious step. This brings us to today where they have jumped into identity politics sewer with Republicans to incite enmity between the races. It is a good diversion for them. It of course does not a damn thing to help the people they purportedly want to help but is certainly effective in telling them who they should hate. Tribalism 101 for the win y'all.

I have been watching a lot of debates between professors lately about the collapse of civilizations. The people I watched pointed out two characteristics of collapsing civilizations.

1. Relative wealth inequality within a society. America now has more wealth inequality than at any time in its history. It is worse now that it was before the Great Depression. America is breaking into a caste system where the powerful own political puppets who do nothing except for those controlling them. It looks like it is now a political impossibility to ever address the wealth inequality. The Democrats seem to only speak on this topic in the realm of race. If they spoke of it in terms of CLASS and spoke of it every day for a year to the exclusion of damn near everything else and truly advocated for a strong progressive tax, I believe they would win in a landslide. I believe this is what society wants most and what is being denied to them. There is a reason that they have lost 9% of millennials in the last year and it has much to do with what the Democratic Party is talking about and what they are not talking about.

2. Scarcity of resources. We seem pretty safe on this one at the moment. Wonder what will happen when China/India start consuming resources at our level.

The other thing that was kind of frightening was the assertion that as collapse occurs, tribalism always comes back and accelerates the process The Middle East is an exceptional evidence of that. Tribalism is both a symptom and a cause of civilization death. It is the canary in the coal mine.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-millennials-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1I10YH
https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/income-inequality-states-biggest-wealth-gaps.html/?a=viewall

Living in CA I must tell you this: Our homeless problem is in large part due to other states shipping their homeless here

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Nevada-Settles-Homeless-Dumping-Lawsuit-369736411.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...t-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study

Combined with just a general migration of homeless to CA because of the weather and perceptions/delusions of success along with CA's HUGE drug rehab centers drawing vast numbers of homeless and throwing them out again. Southern CA has a relatively safe climate year round and most of the homeless stay within the temperate zones near the coasts.

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/12/...-fueling-homelessness-in-southern-california/

CA didn't create its homeless problem all by itself, though the high rent adds to it, it's only a fraction of the cause. The rest of the nation dumped it on us. And it's overwhelmed the biggest shelter system in the US."

So harping on CA's homeless situation while ignoring the fact that red states are bussing their homeless here is cherry picking half the story to fit a narrative.

The real question is, do liberal states create homelessness, or are the homeless, poor and disabled attracted/shipped to liberal states because of better services for them?

Cart/horse, etc...
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
Living in CA I must tell you this: Our homeless problem is in large part due to other states shipping their homeless here

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Nevada-Settles-Homeless-Dumping-Lawsuit-369736411.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...t-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study

Combined with just a general migration of homeless to CA because of the weather and perceptions/delusions of success along with CA's HUGE drug rehab centers drawing vast numbers of homeless and throwing them out again. Southern CA has a relatively safe climate year round and most of the homeless stay within the temperate zones near the coasts.

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/12/...-fueling-homelessness-in-southern-california/

CA didn't create its homeless problem all by itself, though the high rent adds to it, it's only a fraction of the cause. The rest of the nation dumped it on us. And it's overwhelmed the biggest shelter system in the US."

So harping on CA's homeless situation while ignoring the fact that red states are bussing their homeless here is cherry picking half the story to fit a narrative.

The real question is, do liberal states create homelessness, or are the homeless, poor and disabled attracted/shipped to liberal states because of better services for them?

Cart/horse, etc...

I think its more likely that the climate is better for homeless than the crazy idea that other states are shipping them to California. However, if that is truly pushing the CA homeless numbers over the edge, that deserves some national attention.
 
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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Ah... The old you're the racist for identifying my overtly racist posts routine...

This OP is a Repost of a Repost of a Repost. Boring predictable sock puppet is boring, predictable, and most likely the racist piece of shit fuck he is trying to project onto others...
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
That is what I would call a progressive democratic view, wealth inequality by class rather than race.

They can win elections based on it, but which class of people controls the Democratic Party? Where does the real money come from ? It is definitely not lower middle or middle class.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,101
21,215
136
They can win elections based on it, but which class of people controls the Democratic Party? Where does the real money come from ? It is definitely not lower middle or middle class.

Which class of people do you think controls the government period? Mostly a bunch of millionaires dude, Dems and Repubs. It's been that way for a long time.

I've registered independent for awhile now just out of principal but vote Democratic pretty much - but good luck finding me a candidate to vote for in a major election that isn't going to simply hand a victory to the [usually] more evil Republican instead? That is the conundrum progressives face.
 
Reactions: pmv

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Bshole, it seems you have gone through a change in thinking with regards to Dem party similar to myself. No, they do not actually want to help the minorities. They exploit them for votes. The fact that the R party has become quite anti immigrant makes it easier

As for all the inequality you mention, it is quite natural. The bigger the govt, more taxes, more regulations, it helps those at the top while consigning the lower middle class to shitty public schools and the like. It is no wonder the liberals don’t like charter schools. This is just one example. I have come to see and experience the insidious ways the Dem party is eating away at this country. I don’t doubt the sincerity of its supporters though, even the tiring and obnoxious ones on this forum
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Which class of people do you think controls the government period? Mostly a bunch of millionaires dude, Dems and Repubs. It's been that way for a long time.

I've registered independent for awhile now just out of principal but vote Democratic pretty much - but good luck finding me a candidate to vote for in a major election that isn't going to simply hand a victory to the [usually] more evil Republican instead? That is the conundrum progressives face.

Move to Kentucky and vote for Rand Paul
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
The old white supremacist argument never changes. If you hate white supremacy, that's only because you're against white people, even if you are a white person!
Come up with something new, bro.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,101
21,215
136
The cold and taxes will kill you

I could never live in the deep south. Shoot me.

You also paint the democrats with a broad brush. They have been on the RIGHT side of history for the most major advancements in our country in the last century - worker's rights, women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, against the Vietnam and Iraq wars, pro Science, etc...

It took a lot of left of center folks, from all classes, to make those things happen.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
I could never live in the deep south. Shoot me.

You also paint the democrats with a broad brush. They have been on the RIGHT side of history for the most major advancements in our country in the last century - worker's rights, women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, against the Vietnam and Iraq wars, pro Science, etc...

It took a lot of left of center folks, from all classes, to make those things happen.

Yeah was just kidding about Kentucky. I can’t imagine how Ron and Rand have had such success there. I probably don’t know of some things

Yup I agree with you on the other part too
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
I have been watching a lot of debates between professors lately about the collapse of civilizations. The people I watched pointed out two characteristics of collapsing civilizations.

1. Relative wealth inequality within a society. America now has more wealth inequality than at any time in its history. It is worse now that it was before the Great Depression. America is breaking into a caste system where the powerful own political puppets who do nothing except for those controlling them. It looks like it is now a political impossibility to ever address the wealth inequality. The Democrats seem to only speak on this topic in the realm of race. If they spoke of it in terms of CLASS and spoke of it every day for a year to the exclusion of damn near everything else and truly advocated for a strong progressive tax, I believe they would win in a landslide. I believe this is what society wants most and what is being denied to them. There is a reason that they have lost 9% of millennials in the last year and it has much to do with what the Democratic Party is talking about and what they are not talking about.

2. Scarcity of resources. We seem pretty safe on this one at the moment. Wonder what will happen when China/India start consuming resources at our level.

The other thing that was kind of frightening was the assertion that as collapse occurs, tribalism always comes back and accelerates the process The Middle East is an exceptional evidence of that. Tribalism is both a symptom and a cause of civilization death. It is the canary in the coal mine.



L]

I find this part interesting. Not many would doubt that America is in the decay cycle which happens to every civilization. It is a rule of nature.

I’ve read some on this topic myself. And what you didn’t write, I thought, was more conspicuous by its absence. Do these professors talk about moral decadence and it’s historical role in the decline of civilizations? I have more to say but I want to hear from you first. Thank you
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Moon, if I always am present in the moment and not get trapped in past or future time. In that case, my ego would not judge me on things I’ve done wrong in the past. I will have no shame no guilt on regret. Will I then not continue to do the same?
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Moon another question. What do you do when the pain feels too much, unbearable? Maybe something not so significant in the present triggering something deeply painful from the unconscious past? Thank you again for your replies
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,294
6,352
126
Moon, if I always am present in the moment and not get trapped in past or future time. In that case, my ego would not judge me on things I’ve done wrong in the past. I will have no shame no guilt on regret. Will I then not continue to do the same?
The same what?
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
I could never live in the deep south. Shoot me.

You also paint the democrats with a broad brush. They have been on the RIGHT side of history for the most major advancements in our country in the last century - worker's rights, women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, against the Vietnam and Iraq wars
LOL!
No they weren't.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,294
6,352
126
Moon another question. What do you do when the pain feels too much, unbearable? Maybe something not so significant in the present triggering something deeply painful from the unconscious past? Thank you again for your replies

How we define words will matter here. What is the difference between feeling pain and suffering. I would say that suffering is existential, pain is physical. There is no way that I know of to escape physical pain. One can have different attitudes toward it I guess. I see suffering as a process perhaps. One can experience depression. Some of that may be chemical and not existentially related. I don't know how to tell the difference or if the difference is real. But the depression that is curable, in my opinion, is a depression that is characterized by a lack of feeling. It is fear, but not the absolute suppression of fear as some traumatic memory may threaten to become conscious, but a general state of avoidance of feeling. Maybe you could call it generalized anxiety or something like that. When a person enters a therapeutic situation and becomes more in touch with their feelings, they begin to feel sadness and that hurts. As a person becomes more in touch yet with what is making them sad, you do this by feeling it, the sadness, that is, one becomes more aware of anger and then rage. In the depths of rage one can have such intense feelings that one becomes real, one remembers exactly what the feeling one is having is. The rage spent and the situation recognized for what it is, one can begin to feel the real feeling, grief for oneself. Grief is a real feeling, and to feel what is real is to be alive. To find life again is to heal. The source of depression, sadness anger rage and sorrow are understood at at least one root. When you grieve and heal you can't suffer again.

Similarly for me, when I realized that my need for meaning was as meaningless an anything else that made me suffer from meaninglessness, my existential suffering vanished in one split second for ever. Meaning is useless for those without hope of it. It was hope that kept me from feeling what I really felt, worthless and unloved, hope that I could prove objectively the sacredness of my cow collection.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
As a person becomes more in touch yet with what is making them sad, you do this by feeling it, the sadness, that is, one becomes more aware of anger and then rage. In the depths of rage one can have such intense feelings that one becomes real, one remembers exactly what the feeling one is having is. The rage spent and the situation recognized for what it is, one can begin to feel the real feeling, grief for oneself. Grief is a real feeling, and to feel what is real is to be alive. To find life again is to heal. The source of depression, sadness anger rage and sorrow are understood at at least one root. When you grieve and heal you can't suffer again.

But to grieve you have to go back in time, which is a trap in itself. Should I not live in the moment? Isn't the past a bottomless pit?

Also this part "When you grieve and heal you can't suffer again". As they say, the five stages of grief are not one complete cycle. You go through these stages (in any random order), over and over again. A person can grieve for the rest of their life, no?
 
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