The elite liberals and racism

[Noah Abrams]

So what outlets/sources would you say are "actual news?"

There are some middle eastern sites. The English translation of their newspapers

But it is books which give you a real understanding. For example regarding Afghanistan I’ve read several books but nearly all of them are the usual bogus types. There was one that was different though. By two (Dutch?) journalists who unlike the usual types, had actually lived there. I think it was called The Enemy We Created. This book was conveniently ignored I believe in the media here. I also recall reading a book by a Pakistani journalist which gave a real world perspective absent in the typical mainstream western media

 

[Noah Abrams]

I think he agreed with bshole, YouTube. Lol

The thing about ignorance is, what I find, is this quality of pride and self satisfaction that it gives to people.

Lol

 

[Starbuck1975]

right again! me not voting for Donald Trump is why Donald Trump won!

math is hard.

Especially electoral math.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Ask 62 million voters if they give a shit.

Ask Alabama if they give a shit.

Edit: your ninja edit, lol....the plan was to play the nominee the best way they thought they could. Sure, it didn't go as well as hoped, but that doesn't change 62 million voters choices, nor doesn't it change the fact that millions we're subject to trolling from a propoganda machine foreign power.

These are hard truths.

It's time to stop blaming Democrats because your feels.

C'mon man, you guys get SOME responsibility for Trump right?

The corruption of the DNC screwing over ol' Berny played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that you had an old hag centrist that no one wanted played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that your voter turnout for 2016 was less than your voter turnout for 2012 which was less than your voter turnout for 2008 has gotta play a factor there - no? I mean, you do know that the population of voters is INCREASING, right Your number should be increasing as well.

Yes, Republicans are responsible for putting up a stupid turd - but liberals and some very stupid and poor strategy (and corruption) was a contribution to the loss of your candidate.

 

[ch33zw1z]

C'mon man, you guys get SOME responsibility for Trump right?

The corruption of the DNC screwing over ol' Berny played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that you had an old hag centrist that no one wanted played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that your voter turnout for 2016 was less than your voter turnout for 2012 which was less than your voter turnout for 2008 has gotta play a factor there - no? I mean, you do know that the population of voters is INCREASING, right Your number should be increasing as well.

Yes, Republicans are responsible for putting up a stupid turd - but liberals and some very stupid and poor strategy (and corruption) was a contribution to the loss of your candidate.

Voters bear the adult responsibility of what their vote means and does. Nobody is forced to do anything. We make our choices, and their our choices. That's the long and short of it.

 

[dank69]

C'mon man, you guys get SOME responsibility for Trump right?

The corruption of the DNC screwing over ol' Berny played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that you had an old hag centrist that no one wanted played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that your voter turnout for 2016 was less than your voter turnout for 2012 which was less than your voter turnout for 2008 has gotta play a factor there - no? I mean, you do know that the population of voters is INCREASING, right Your number should be increasing as well.

Yes, Republicans are responsible for putting up a stupid turd - but liberals and some very stupid and poor strategy (and corruption) was a contribution to the loss of your candidate.

Obama only had 71185 more voters in 2012. That's practically a rounding error.

 

[Jaskalas]

"you liberals"... I always laugh when I hear that.

We Liberals.

Big tent does not mean united tent. There are divisions and tensions of course. Then Republicans are so unappealing to so many people, many votes are simply in opposition to them rather than for support of enlightened ideals. Or at least not all such ideals. I myself do not support all the various things that define Democrats as a party. Yet I know they will most likely support the things I care about most. I am united by the things I feel we must deal with first and foremast, before I consider parting for existing grievances.

First, Trump must be voted out.
Second, trickle down's 40 years of failure must come to an end. The American people are in desperate need of a new deal.

While the first is big and bad enough, the second is a doozy. A laundry list of items that need to be taken care of to secure American prosperity for future generations. Democrats, as flawed and hostile as they are, are still the best bet... the only bet to see reason from madness and carry our country towards a positive future. I know Conservatives cannot see that through the fog of war. Blinded by both delusions and partisan spirit. Yet I have come to learn what we must do to survive. And the Republican's policy couldn't be further from it.

Capitalism is evolving, and our country must progress with it. So I say... We Liberals.

Far as partisanship goes, it's a funny thing having chosen to cross sides. I see the flaws all around. No delusion of grandeur for either party here. I see the money our leaders beg Wall Street for. I see corruption runs thick. I see partisan hatreds rising up around us. This is not a good time to be an American. Our people clamor for change, and with all the obstacles it appears that this pot simply continues to boil. Pressure mounting. We like to call the other side the devil and count their sins.

The Democrats have sins. Corporate sins, racial sins. They are only human. And as I mentioned before, a tent so big and diverse that not all will seek enlightenment or have kind words for other races. It's a shame we spend more time looking outward than inward. It would benefit us all to do some self reflection and respect our short comings. Including those of whom we associate. Right Republicans?

Regardless, I do think it would benefit us if we could hold elections and campaign on the issues, instead of clamoring over righteous indignation. Policy, not people. Country before party. It would be nice to see ourselves as Americans again, rather than Republicans vs Democrats. Rather than us VS "other".

TL;DR, something.. something... glass houses.

 

[ivwshane]

That would be nice. It's not going to happen until we get more representation for people (as in more reps for fewer people).

 

[HomerJS]

C'mon man, you guys get SOME responsibility for Trump right?

The corruption of the DNC screwing over ol' Berny played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that you had an old hag centrist that no one wanted played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that your voter turnout for 2016 was less than your voter turnout for 2012 which was less than your voter turnout for 2008 has gotta play a factor there - no? I mean, you do know that the population of voters is INCREASING, right Your number should be increasing as well.

Yes, Republicans are responsible for putting up a stupid turd - but liberals and some very stupid and poor strategy (and corruption) was a contribution to the loss of your candidate.

You are trying to absolve the people who were a few points from sending a child molester to the Senate. That landmark was only stayed by black women in Ala. Like Trump you refuse to take responsibility for your own fuckups.

 

[Amused]

There are some middle eastern sites. The English translation of their newspapers

But it is books which give you a real understanding. For example regarding Afghanistan I’ve read several books but nearly all of them are the usual bogus types. There was one that was different though. By two (Dutch?) journalists who unlike the usual types, had actually lived there. I think it was called The Enemy We Created. This book was conveniently ignored I believe in the media here. I also recall reading a book by a Pakistani journalist which gave a real world perspective absent in the typical mainstream western media

So, in other words you seek out information that fits what you want to believe?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

We Liberals.

Big tent does not mean united tent. There are divisions and tensions of course. Then Republicans are so unappealing to so many people, many votes are simply in opposition to them rather than for support of enlightened ideals. Or at least not all such ideals. I myself do not support all the various things that define Democrats as a party. Yet I know they will most likely support the things I care about most. I am united by the things I feel we must deal with first and foremast, before I consider parting for existing grievances.

First, Trump must be voted out.
Second, trickle down's 40 years of failure must come to an end. The American people are in desperate need of a new deal.

While the first is big and bad enough, the second is a doozy. A laundry list of items that need to be taken care of to secure American prosperity for future generations. Democrats, as flawed and hostile as they are, are still the best bet... the only bet to see reason from madness and carry our country towards a positive future. I know Conservatives cannot see that through the fog of war. Blinded by both delusions and partisan spirit. Yet I have come to learn what we must do to survive. And the Republican's policy couldn't be further from it.

Capitalism is evolving, and our country must progress with it. So I say... We Liberals.

Far as partisanship goes, it's a funny thing having chosen to cross sides. I see the flaws all around. No delusion of grandeur for either party here. I see the money our leaders beg Wall Street for. I see corruption runs thick. I see partisan hatreds rising up around us. This is not a good time to be an American. Our people clamor for change, and with all the obstacles it appears that this pot simply continues to boil. Pressure mounting. We like to call the other side the devil and count their sins.

The Democrats have sins. Corporate sins, racial sins. They are only human. And as I mentioned before, a tent so big and diverse that not all will seek enlightenment or have kind words for other races. It's a shame we spend more time looking outward than inward. It would benefit us all to do some self reflection and respect our short comings. Including those of whom we associate. Right Republicans?

Regardless, I do think it would benefit us if we could hold elections and campaign on the issues, instead of clamoring over righteous indignation. Policy, not people. Country before party. It would be nice to see ourselves as Americans again, rather than Republicans vs Democrats. Rather than us VS "other".

TL;DR, something.. something... glass houses.

This thread had grown very long, and I can't read through all the posts. Yours -- I decided to address. Maybe you'd seen a recent Denzel Washington film with Colin Farrell -- "Roman J. Israel, Esq." The character is sitting across the table from Carmen Ejogo, and says "Purity . . . . can't survive in this world." In 2000, I concluded for myself that keeping the oil industry out of government and keeping the defense industry and Hawks at bay was paramount to everything else. I stick with that. Since then, I feel that the GOP is so ugly underneath any remaining palatable surface that there is no other choice.

And the choice was easy for me -- having given money to Sanders but having voted for Clinton. I was never that enthused about Clinton, but my stock of information about her increased during the election.

People think that elections and voting are some sort of smorgasbord. Surely, they can have their pick going up the three-tiered ladder of government elective offices. But eventually, one comes to a point of reckoning, such that a particular election for President in a particular year gives you only a single choice that seems like a Dirty Asshole Sandwich.

Choosing the Dirty Asshole Sandwich is something I can do easily, for some reason. And calling Clinton a Dirty Asshole Sandwich is -- as far as I can measure -- unfair. It sure is a better choice than Satan-Beelzebub.

I want to see his whole family hang by the neck. We should bring back public execution for high treason.

Oh. One more point. You say he must be "voted out." I disagree. That is too respectable.

He must not be allowed to finish his term. There is so much criminality afoot there, they need to tar and feather him with an impeachment and hopefully bring criminal charges after his removal.

Nothing left to do but cross fingers and hope for a Dem majority in the House. I'd really like to bag the Senate as well. But caution and healthy pessimism is the only realistic attitude.

 

[JSt0rm]

C'mon man, you guys get SOME responsibility for Trump right?

The corruption of the DNC screwing over ol' Berny played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that you had an old hag centrist that no one wanted played a factor in your voter turnout.

The fact that your voter turnout for 2016 was less than your voter turnout for 2012 which was less than your voter turnout for 2008 has gotta play a factor there - no? I mean, you do know that the population of voters is INCREASING, right Your number should be increasing as well.

Yes, Republicans are responsible for putting up a stupid turd - but liberals and some very stupid and poor strategy (and corruption) was a contribution to the loss of your candidate.

the dnc shouldnt of wore that skirt if she didnt want to get fucked.

 

[Noah Abrams]

So, in other words you seek out information that fits what you want to believe?

No, it means trying to find the actual facts to the extent possible. Not getting brainwashed into the usual good vs evil stuff. Not believing in the assumed inherent superiority of the west, which is the framework on which they base everything else. When you realize the emperor has no clothes...which I did a long time ago

 

[SP33Demon]

What about Chicago?

It’s beautiful city, pretty good food, nice lake, safer than Atlanta too. Only problem is the hockey team.

Ah, very convenient that it's only up to 2016 when the real violence and shootings started. See my Chicago killing kids thread on how many children have died in 2016, 2017, and this year already. To deny that "all's well there" is completely ridiculous. I have friends who (somehow voluntarily) live in Englewood and they hear gunshots every night. He said it's so bad that they won't even investigate a homicide (to try and catch the killer) unless it's more than 1 person. But keep thinking it's awesome there.

 

[SP33Demon]

Exactly, the argument that liberals are to blame for Donald Trump is ridiculous and paternalistic. The people who voted for Donald Trump are responsible for Donald Trump, not the people who didn't vote for them.
<snip>

Judging by the posts here after the election, the majority of the Hillary voters in the forum here would disagree with the bolded.

 

[Paratus]

Ah, very convenient that it's only up to 2016 when the real violence and shootings started. See my Chicago killing kids thread on how many children have died in 2016, 2017, and this year already. To deny that "all's well there" is completely ridiculous. I have friends who (somehow voluntarily) live in Englewood and they hear gunshots every night. He said it's so bad that they won't even investigate a homicide (to try and catch the killer) unless it's more than 1 person. But keep thinking it's awesome there.

That’s funny because the stats show that the homicide rate had a local peak in 2016 and fell in 2017 and is lower again this year.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-homicides-data-tracker-htmlstory.html

 

[SP33Demon]

That’s funny because the stats show that the homicide rate had a local peak in 2016 and fell in 2017 and is lower again this year.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-homicides-data-tracker-htmlstory.html

Not the killing of kids which I showed in my killing of kids thread. Also, it shows 418 of the 569 homicides were black. Yet the Democrats (who champion black rights) are doing a great job running the city? hahahaha. Maybe that's why more black males are now following Kanye's lead for MAGA.

 

[Amused]

No, it means trying to find the actual facts to the extent possible. Not getting brainwashed into the usual good vs evil stuff. Not believing in the assumed inherent superiority of the west, which is the framework on which they base everything else. When you realize the emperor has no clothes...which I did a long time ago

OK, and how do you verify a "fact" from a single source outlet without independant confirmation?

You specific bias is readily apparent. Please give me an example of "western mainstream media" conspiring together to distort or lie about a fact.

 

[fskimospy]

Not the killing of kids which I showed in my killing of kids thread. Also, it shows 418 of the 569 homicides were black. Yet the Democrats (who champion black rights) are doing a great job running the city? hahahaha. Maybe that's why more black males are now following Kanye's lead for MAGA.

Haha I remember that where you cited a poll where the polling editor of the place that made it said the result was insignificant and black support could even have declined.

 

[Muse]

The term "liberal elites" is a blatant out and out oxymoron. Elitism is utterly inconsistent with liberal values. Try conservative elites. That makes perfect sense.

 

[Amused]

The term "liberal elites" is a blatant out and out oxymoron. Elitism is utterly inconsistent with liberal values. Try conservative elites. That makes perfect sense.

More projectionism. As I said, there is, among the neo-right wing, a concerted effort to undermine intellectualism.

 

[SP33Demon]

We Liberals.

Big tent does not mean united tent. There are divisions and tensions of course. Then Republicans are so unappealing to so many people, many votes are simply in opposition to them rather than for support of enlightened ideals. Or at least not all such ideals. I myself do not support all the various things that define Democrats as a party. Yet I know they will most likely support the things I care about most. I am united by the things I feel we must deal with first and foremast, before I consider parting for existing grievances.

First, Trump must be voted out.
Second, trickle down's 40 years of failure must come to an end. The American people are in desperate need of a new deal.

While the first is big and bad enough, the second is a doozy. A laundry list of items that need to be taken care of to secure American prosperity for future generations. Democrats, as flawed and hostile as they are, are still the best bet... the only bet to see reason from madness and carry our country towards a positive future. I know Conservatives cannot see that through the fog of war. Blinded by both delusions and partisan spirit. Yet I have come to learn what we must do to survive. And the Republican's policy couldn't be further from it.

Capitalism is evolving, and our country must progress with it. So I say... We Liberals.

Far as partisanship goes, it's a funny thing having chosen to cross sides. I see the flaws all around. No delusion of grandeur for either party here. I see the money our leaders beg Wall Street for. I see corruption runs thick. I see partisan hatreds rising up around us. This is not a good time to be an American. Our people clamor for change, and with all the obstacles it appears that this pot simply continues to boil. Pressure mounting. We like to call the other side the devil and count their sins.

The Democrats have sins. Corporate sins, racial sins. They are only human. And as I mentioned before, a tent so big and diverse that not all will seek enlightenment or have kind words for other races. It's a shame we spend more time looking outward than inward. It would benefit us all to do some self reflection and respect our short comings. Including those of whom we associate. Right Republicans?

Regardless, I do think it would benefit us if we could hold elections and campaign on the issues, instead of clamoring over righteous indignation. Policy, not people. Country before party. It would be nice to see ourselves as Americans again, rather than Republicans vs Democrats. Rather than us VS "other".

TL;DR, something.. something... glass houses.

Simple solution: Denounce both parties like Trump supporters did. And I say this because many Trump supporters were Reagan democrats and also voted for Obama (like I did in 2008). Vote for whomever both parties hate, like Trump. The only reason Repubs act like they like him is because they need him. Behind Trump's back? They hate him because they can't control him, yet he scalped all Repubs' best candidates in the primaries so there was nothing they could do. Can't force people to vote for you. That's the beauty of Trump. He's obviously flawed from a morality standpoint, but everyone agrees that he's shaken shit up in Washington and if he's reelected I fully expect him to do even more radical shit like legalize weed. We need this, as a democracy, to bust up the status quo and the neoliberals and neocons had taken over since Reagan. In the future I hope other candidates who aren't bought out will also shake up the system and use the 2 parties to get them into power until more people stop watching TV and getting brainwashed. Or get smarter. Then and only then will there be a prominent 3rd party. It's nice to dream.

 

[hal2kilo]

OK, and how do you verify a "fact" from a single source outlet without independant confirmation?

You specific bias is readily apparent. Please give me an example of "western mainstream media" conspiring together to distort or lie about a fact.

The thing about ignorance is, what I find, is this quality of pride and self satisfaction that it gives to people.

Lol

Stop bragging.

 

[shortylickens]

Unsurprisingly the thread strayed from the OP and turned into a Democrat vs. Republican debate.

I think the major issue here is Democrats are trying to do the right thing failing miserably so people from all backgrounds are gravitating to the GOP despite the fact they have neither the ability nor desire to fix problems.

NOTHING in America will ever change until we deal with that issue.

 

[Noah Abrams]

Unsurprisingly the thread strayed from the OP and turned into a Democrat vs. Republican debate.

I think the major issue here is Democrats are trying to do the right thing failing miserably so people from all backgrounds are gravitating to the GOP despite the fact they have neither the ability nor desire to fix problems.

NOTHING in America will ever change until we deal with that issue.

It is the same crowd (rich white men and women) who are in charge of D party, the same as R party. They both use different things, different people to enrich themselves. That is all. They are both corrupt as hell. That is all. They both could care less about their voters. That is all.