The End of Oil?

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
The End of Oil?
By Mark Williams Febuary 2005
Technology Review

NOTEBOOK

If the actions?rather than the words?of the oil business?s major players provide the best gauge of how they see the future, then ponder the following. Crude oil prices have doubled since 2001, but oil companies have increased their budgets for exploring new oil fields by only a small fraction. Likewise, U.S. refineries are working close to capacity, yet no new refinery has been constructed since 1976. And oil tankers are fully booked, but outdated ships are being decommissioned faster than new ones are being built.

If those clues weren?t enough, here?s a news item that came out of Saudi Arabia on March 6, 2003. Though it went largely unremarked, the kingdom?s announcement that it could not produce more oil in response to the Iraq War was of historic importance. As Kenneth Deffeyes notes in Beyond Oil: The View from Hubbert?s Peak, it meant that as of 2003, there was no major underutilized oil source left on the planet. Even as established oil fields have reached their maximum production capacity, there has been disappointing production from new fields. Globally, according to some geologists? estimates, we have discovered 94 percent of all available oil.

The Saudis? announcement arrived right on schedule?at least, once the three-year delay imposed by OPEC?s anti-U.S. embargo and production cutbacks of the 1970s was factored in. In 1969, the prominent geologist M. King Hubbert predicted that a graph of world oil production over time would look like a bell curve, with a peak around the year 2000. Thereafter, he argued, production would drop?slowly at first, then ever faster.

Hubbert had a track record as a prophet: his 1956 forecast that U.S. domestic oil production would peak in the early 1970s proved correct. Kenneth Deffeyes, who started out in 1958 as a young petroleum geologist at Shell?s Houston labs working alongside Hubbert, became so convinced by the man?s theories that by 1963 he had left the oil business, except for occasional consulting work; he is now a professor emeritus of geosciences at Princeton University. In Beyond Oil, Deffeyes takes readers through Hubbert?s analysis in a highly readable style, even boiling down the complex mathematics into a few pages of graphs.

The prognosis? Deffeyes has no doubt that by 2019, the year in which Hubbert?s theories indicate global oil production will drop to 90 percent of current rates, human ingenuity will have found replacement energy sources (see ?What Energy Crisis??, p. 19). But Deffeyes is optimistic about the long term only because he believes that by 2010, pressures will grow so intense that they?ll create the resolve necessary to develop a new energy ­economy. In the short term, he foresees continually rising oil prices that force industry after industry closer to the wall. He fears not just escalating resource wars around the world but also mass starvation in some countries, since the 6.4 billion people living on the earth today are fed thanks largely to the successes of the 20th century?s ?green revolution,? which, among other innovations, brought petrochemical-based fertilizers into wide use.

Because 15 years ago we failed to begin developing the new energy sources and technologies we need now, Deffeyes argues, in the immediate future we?ll have to rely on what we?ve got. In Beyond Oil, he examines how we might optimize the use of our geologically derived energy sources.

Deffeyes suggests that coal will make a comeback and that Fischer-Tropsch conversion?the process by which the Nazi regime turned coal into gasoline to keep its Panzers running during WWII?might become commonplace. He grants that there?ll be an outcry over the ecological costs of burning coal; similarly, there?ll be much agonizing as nuclear power plants are again rolled out. But Deffeyes believes that M. King Hubbert, whose 1956 paper predicting the U.S. oil production peak is titled ?Nuclear Energy and the Fossil Fuels,? was right: nuclear power will be part of our response to decreasing reserves of oil and natural gas, as necessity overrides any political opposition.

Ultimately, says Deffeyes, we may just have to resign ourselves to relying more on coal, wind, and nuclear fission for ­electricity and switching to high-efficiency diesel and hybrid automobiles in order to ration our remaining oil reserves for as long as possible. Abundant energy from fossil fuels was a one-time gift, Deffeyes concludes, that lifted humanity up from subsistence agriculture and has led to a future based on renewable resources.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81



My prediction.

There will still be oil in the ground when stop using it.

The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison



My prediction.

There will still be oil in the ground when stop using it.

The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....

And the reason for this is, there is a huge amount of "oil" left in the world, there are two problems. We cant get to it with current technology, or we do not have the technology to refine it, or the cost of refining the oil is to high due to inefficent technology.

As for the no new refineries in the US opening, its a $6billion up front investment that has historically ran in the red. When oil was $20-30 a barrell refineries ran huge losses.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Good. The faster it runs out, the faster the world will work to discover alternatives. Oil is going to run out....probably SOONER than later. Just imagine what $200,000,000,000 could have done to help alternative research.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: charrison



My prediction.

There will still be oil in the ground when stop using it.

The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....

And the reason for this is, there is a huge amount of "oil" left in the world, there are two problems. We cant get to it with current technology, or we do not have the technology to refine it, or the cost of refining the oil is to high due to inefficent technology.



Or other technologies have made oil obsolete.
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: charrison



My prediction.

There will still be oil in the ground when stop using it.

The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....

And the reason for this is, there is a huge amount of "oil" left in the world, there are two problems. We cant get to it with current technology, or we do not have the technology to refine it, or the cost of refining the oil is to high due to inefficent technology.



Or other technologies have made oil obsolete.

My post should have been a reply. To the main thread but my points stand on your case as well. We will be off oil and there will still be plenty in the ground because of the reasons I mentioned.
 

genghislegacy

Member
Jan 21, 2005
100
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: charrison



My prediction.

There will still be oil in the ground when stop using it.

The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....

And the reason for this is, there is a huge amount of "oil" left in the world, there are two problems. We cant get to it with current technology, or we do not have the technology to refine it, or the cost of refining the oil is to high due to inefficent technology.



Or other technologies have made oil obsolete.


Thats for sure, many companies are speeding up solar energy to be commercially available.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: genghislegacy
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: charrison



My prediction.

There will still be oil in the ground when stop using it.

The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....

And the reason for this is, there is a huge amount of "oil" left in the world, there are two problems. We cant get to it with current technology, or we do not have the technology to refine it, or the cost of refining the oil is to high due to inefficent technology.



Or other technologies have made oil obsolete.




Thats for sure, many companies are speeding up solar energy to be commercially available.

In case you missed it.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: GrGr
Topic Title: The End of Oil?
Topic Summary: MIT acknowledges Peak Oil

This can't be, the P&N Elitists swear I am looking in to Gulf from where I am seeing thousands of empty abandoned and dried up Oil wells that we pumped the Gulf (Thunder Bay) dry.

How can the Sand Thugs be out of Oil then???
 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
22
81
We will never run out of oil completely... production will just diminish until it isn't economically viable to do so anymore
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
We will never run out of oil completely... production will just diminish until it isn't economically viable to do so anymore

yeah we'll just see gas prices go;
$2.50 /gallon
$3
$4
$5
$7
$10
....






 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
We will never run out of oil completely... production will just diminish until it isn't economically viable to do so anymore

yeah we'll just see gas prices go;
$2.50 /gallon
$3
$4
$5
$7
$10
....

yes. so buying a hybrid is making more and more sense as each day passes on.

I just hope people wake up and ditch those evil SUV's and start buying more enviroment-friendly vehicles.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
I am guessing we'll still be using oil for plastics and things like that even if we find some other source of fuel.
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
Originally posted by: SuperTool
I am guessing we'll still be using oil for plastics and things like that even if we find some other source of fuel.

Oil can still be synthesized even if it's not drilled from the ground. The article alludes to this, but basically the germans made oil from coal during WW2.

Pulling numbers from my ass, I figure at $6 or $7 a gallon, synthetic gasoline is commercially viable.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: OS
Oil can still be synthesized even if it's not drilled from the ground. The article alludes to this, but basically the germans made oil from coal during WW2.

Pulling numbers from my ass, I figure at $6 or $7 a gallon, synthetic gasoline is commercially viable.
The current best method for this is coal liquefaction, which is currently taking off. The US has more oil-equivalent of coal than most of the rest of the world combined. Two years ago when I read up on the stuff, there were quite a few new plants opening to use this technology. I probably have specific numbers on how much oil-equivalent reserves of coal countries have if anyone really cares.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: OS
Oil can still be synthesized even if it's not drilled from the ground. The article alludes to this, but basically the germans made oil from coal during WW2.

Pulling numbers from my ass, I figure at $6 or $7 a gallon, synthetic gasoline is commercially viable.
The current best method for this is coal liquefaction, which is currently taking off. The US has more oil-equivalent of coal than most of the rest of the world combined. Two years ago when I read up on the stuff, there were quite a few new plants opening to use this technology. I probably have specific numbers on how much oil-equivalent reserves of coal countries have if anyone really cares.


While it's great to have the coal process, it's still a resource that isn't infinite. We need something renewable!
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: charrison
[ ... ]
The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....
(I like that. Something you coined, or is it an old saying I've somehow managed to never hear before?)


Re. the OP, I am confident we will eventually come up to alternatives for geologic oil, if only because we are forced to. I am concerned the transition may be disastrous to our economy, and perhaps even our culture, if we wait until our backs are against the wall. We have not only developed wasteful habits, but we are reinforcing them, making the inevitable transition that much more difficult.
 

artikk

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2004
4,172
1
71
Originally posted by: raildogg
People should buy Hybrids.

Although I believe oil will be around for a long time.

I agree people should start using alternative energy sources instead of using up all of the oil in the near future. using hybrids will give us some time to implement and find invent new energy sources/delivery systems that will replace fossil fuel based ones.
 

BigJelly

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2002
1,717
0
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: charrison
[ ... ]
The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones....
(I like that. Something you coined, or is it an old saying I've somehow managed to never hear before?)


Re. the OP, I am confident we will eventually come up to alternatives for geologic oil, if only because we are forced to. I am concerned the transition may be disastrous to our economy, and perhaps even our culture, if we wait until our backs are against the wall. We have not only developed wasteful habits, but we are reinforcing them, making the inevitable transition that much more difficult.

look at the resistance to nuclear power in america--people react off emotions and not logic

right now people jumping on the bandwagon of solar power are premature and use it to show their disdain against oil. i say good that the technology is being developed but until its finished dont hold your breath

im all for any energy that is cheaper, especially if it has a unlimited source and is better for the enviroment
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: SuperTool
I am guessing we'll still be using oil for plastics and things like that even if we find some other source of fuel.



There was an article serveral days ago ON spacedailyt about creating plastics from orange peels.
 

MajorCaliber

Member
Apr 26, 2003
61
0
0
The price of oil will take care of it. When the price gets high enough, it will be viable to reach more reserves, or produce oil from coal, oil shale, or bio-diesel.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Engineer
While it's great to have the coal process, it's still a resource that isn't infinite. We need something renewable!
Did I SAY that it was all we needed? No. It makes things less dire than a lot of people around here are trying to pretend, however.
 

tcrosson

Senior member
Oct 24, 1999
308
0
0
We do not want oil to go away!

Despite your best research and oil drilling analysis, we're paying high prices for gasonline now because there is no alternative. If we become completely sustained on Hydrogen, then Hydrogen refineries will be able to name their price just like their oil cousins can now. We'll be right back where we left off. Whatever comes along needs to compete with oil as competition will drive prices down and keep them reasonable.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
I'm not seeing where "MIT acknowledges Peak oil" ?

I do see some flawed analysis. Oil companies not looking for oil ? I don't know if it's true, but if it is a much more likely reason than the one that's proposed is oil is too cheap to make it worthwhile. Hardly an indicator that we're out of oil.

 
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