Why do you think so?arm continuing to shoot themselves in the foot.
The more they force idiotic bundling requirements and legal fights the more impetus exists to push RISCV in spaces it has no place being presently.Why do you think so?
This seems like ARM is finally beginning to reap its position as the main engine behind the mobile revolution and soon-to-be server-dominance.
Samsung's failure with Mongoose (and Qualcomm's not so impressive OG Kryo core) is a solid demonstration that simply throwing money at the problem is not a be all, end all solution to core design.Nvidia owning ARM would have injected resources into stock ARM cores and made stock ARM cores more competitive against whatever Qualcomm is planning to do.
Depends on the horizon.The more they force idiotic bundling requirements and legal fights the more impetus exists to push RISCV in spaces it has no place being presently.
Short-term shareholder value extraction at the cost of long term value. And at the time when Chinese companies coincidentally have a lot of motivation to design RISCV server cores. I applaud such genius business leadership with vindictive intent (/sarcasm).
If ARM wanted to compete against Qualcomm maybe they should have designed a better core or bought Nuvia themselves. Killing the competition with lawyers instead of engineers. Nice.
Apple controls both the hardware and software and even then, it took a monumental effort to make the switch from Intel to Apple SIlicon.Sure, sure, they could take their ball home and say "fine we'll transition to RISC-V cores and avoid paying you anything" but there's a lot of risk (sorry) attached to that. There are no guarantees they can make a smooth transition and bring their customer base along, plenty of things could happen along the way to sabotage that and put them in a much worse situation than if they had just gone along with ARM's new scheme. But going along is also risky, if too much of the Android world decided to abandon ARM.
Throwing money at custom core design isn't the end all solution. You're right. That's why Qualcomm pounced on the opportunity to acquire Nuvia, with its founders coming directly from the Apple Silicon tree.Samsung's failure with Mongoose (and Qualcomm's not so impressive OG Kryo core) is a solid demonstration that simply throwing money at the problem is not a be all, end all solution to core design.
Besides ARM already had that cash injection when they got acquired by SoftBank in the first place and the current evolution shows that their design strategy has already shifted to a more perf heavy focus with Cortex X which rapidly shifted ARM's high end from 4 -> 6 wide in just 3 iterations.
Current rumors around Cortex X4 performance in SD8 Gen 3 sound pretty promising and Oryon could end up being a less than amazing debut regardless of ARM legal interference.
Edit: Last point, Qualcomm having a custom core (and therefore architectural license equivalent) was once the norm for ARM during the v7-A generation of Scorpion and Krayt, and but for the failure of Kryo to perform to expectations they would still be doing so.
SoftBank/ARM don't want anything unreasonable, just what they had with Qualcomm before adjusted for the difference in sales and inflation since Kryo flopped.
So, so true. And that alone make ARM the bad guy. if nuvia chips are so good, they will be priced that way and most phones will still use normal ARM cores. This is typical bad management "panic" and panic implying they stop thinking. I also have a feeling there is some personal feud going on in the c-suites between these 2 companies.Killing the competition with lawyers instead of engineers. Nice.
Apple controls both the hardware and software and even then, it took a monumental effort to make the switch from Intel to Apple SIlicon.
Qualcomm would have a much harder time switching from ARM to RISC-V. I just don't see how they can do it. It'll need to be a joint effort between Qualcomm, Google, Microsoft, etc. There isn't much benefit for anyone except Qualcomm since it's not Google or Windows that depends on ARM designs and ISA. Android and Windows will be here even if Qualcomm disappeared tomorrow.
I think the fantasizing of Qualcomm abandoning ARM for RISC-V is a pipe dream. I think the above posters who think ARM is digging its grave by doing this are wrong. I think Qualcomm is trying to dig ARM's grave with Nuvia.
You need to understand how ARM works.So, so true. And that alone make ARM the bad guy. if nuvia chips are so good, they will be priced that way and most phones will still use normal ARM cores. This is typical bad management "panic" and panic implying they stop thinking. I also have a feeling there is some personal feud going on in the c-suites between these 2 companies.
EDIT: Given that qualcomm will then sell a lot of Nuvia chips at a higher price it will also likley lead to higher profits for ARM!!! Also because mabye some iphone users will switch.
All (very successful) businesses use this practice.So essentially Arm is using its dominance in licensing the ISA to push all its licensees to use its cores and IP designs as well. A charming move of a monopoly!
By that logic everyone would want an iphone and not android anymore because iphone performs much better.In addition, if Nuvia dominates ARM designs in performance, then companies such as Mediatek won't be able to compete because people will want to buy Nuvia-based devices. Mediatek also uses ARM core designs and pays a fee to ARM by chips sold.
You need to understand how ARM works.
ARM licenses two things mainly:
1. The ARM ISA
2. Core and IP designs
Apple only license the ISA for Apple Silicon. Qualcomm licenses both the ISA and core designs. Qualcomm pays ARM money to license their core designs. With Nuvia, Qualcomm won't have to pay ARM for core designs anymore.
In addition, if Nuvia dominates ARM designs in performance, then companies such as Mediatek won't be able to compete because people will want to buy Nuvia-based devices. Mediatek also uses ARM core designs and pays a fee to ARM by chips sold.
Licensing core designs is much more profitable than just licensing the ISA for ARM.
Nuvia is a huge threat to ARM.
On track for lunch. 🍖 🤤Qualcomm seems unbuffered?
Regardless of how the license situation works out Qualcomm is still a huge licensee of ARM IP in general from the sheer quantity of product in the market that uses Qualcomm ARM SoCs.I think Qualcomm is trying to dig ARM's grave with Nuvia.
Couldn't have said it better myself.By that logic everyone would want an iphone and not android anymore because iphone performs much better.
Yes, I fully expect the monopolies commissions in various jurisdictions to be looking very close at ARM's practices if these changes go ahead. Yes, Qualcomm might be in a bad situation as they too have come under scrutiny, but if, for example, the EC does not start investigating ARM's practices very soon I would be very surprised.Oh I fully understand these businesses in a business sense, I also fully dislike these business in a business sense. And monopolistic actions are rightfully persecuted in many regions for having bad influences in the open market. Arm being the dominant platform for mobile phones most certainly will be looked at for these changes if they are realized.