The extent of democracy in Saudi Arabia

[amd6502]

its stark opposite makes you wonder why the US is pushing to overthrow democratically elected leaders such as Syria's Assad rather than install a democracy in Saudi Arabia:

http://www.newsweek.com/president-trump-saudi-arabia-beheading-638812

 

[senseamp]

Trump supported execution of some African Americans accused of murder in Central Park, even after they were cleared of it. He would probably go to KSA and behead the kid himself.

 

[amd6502]

Trump supported execution of some African Americans accused of murder in Central Park, even after they were cleared of it. He would probably go to KSA and behead the kid himself.

Death penalty for attending a pro democracy protest in saudi arabia?? Surely seems a bit absurd doesn't it?

Thanks for the pointer though i hadn't heard of that case yet: https://www.google.com/search?q=Central+Park+Five

 

[DisarmedDespot]

The Saudis are one of the countries the Us desperately needs to rethink its relationship with.

Unfortunately, Trump is much more likely to drive a wedge between us and NATO/Mexico/South Korea/Japan than he is to make any changes to policy towards the Saudis.

 

[Commodus]

its stark opposite makes you wonder why the US is pushing to overthrow democratically elected leaders such as Syria's Assad rather than install a democracy in Saudi Arabia:

http://www.newsweek.com/president-trump-saudi-arabia-beheading-638812

Both are bad. Assad is a dictator, he just reached his position through a vote.

The issue with Saudi Arabia, of course, is that it's a valuable oil partner. No recent US administration has been willing to upset that relationship in any significant way. Obama's recognition of the need to reduce oil dependence is as far as it gets. And you're definitely not going to get a different Saudi Arabia strategy from Trump, who's still pretending that he can reverse the decline of oil and please his fossil fuel buddies.

 

[pmv]

Assad is hardly a democrat. Syria was always a regime of torturers.

But it is ridiculous how little criticism Saudi Arabia gets, when if it wasn't so vital to Western, or maybe just elite Western, interests it would get every bit of the bad press that Iran or Assad's Syria gets. Probably more. The entire political class in the West, liberal and conservative alike, seem to be deeply involved financially with the Saudis.

I wonder why Saudi Arabia ended up the way it did though? Is it because it's mostly desert and that's the kind of culture former desert nomads create when they get rich? Or is it down to western colonial meddling? Or is it the effect of oil itself - the oil industry does seem to encourage inequality and corruption, because it doesn't require the kind of mass labour participation that, say, coal mining does (which breeds things like labour unions and makes it difficult to avoid sharing out the profits to some degree). In comparison oil needs far fewer workers, and mostly technocrats. And the people at the top can easily turn it on and off and keep most of the proceeds for themselves.

Going to be a hell of a time for everyone when the oil runs out.

 

[Omar F1]

A lot could be said here, whether to criticize or also praise Saudi Arabia.

Worthy note though, the Kingdom, more than ever, now seems to be running a huge conversion process on multiple aspects, economical adaption is just one of them.
Its leadership is definitely opening up their society by force, dare I say. A slow, but continuous process since the early days of ex-King Abdullah.

Keep in mind that people value prosperity and social justice the most, while participation in political life is secondary objective, if at all for the average folks over here.
(but that is changing too, simple living is no more and social inequality seems on the rise)

To the OP, comparing Syria to Saudi Arabia is like comparing Satan to Gabriel.
In short, the Assad regime is nothing but a group of devils that came straight out of the deepest level of hell to rule over Syria.
Calling a fake republic in this region a democracy is also a mistake. For example, a Syrian friend told me once how the voting 'cards' used to came pre-selecting Bashar as your vote.

I wonder why Saudi Arabia ended up the way it did though?

Shying behind the religion, trying to construe everything through it, conspiracy theories all along with nobody to stand up against them, and of course, tribalism.
There is a good reason why ex-King Abdullah has sent tens of thousands of Saudi students abroad, it wasn't just for better education but as well to enlighten their minds to the external world.

 

[FIVR]

Lmao look at this Saudi shill, Satan and Gabriel huh? Assad is a western educated doctor leading a legitimate democratic regime, not some head-chopping Bedouin version of Jed Clampet who's father just happened to pitch the tent he grew up in on top of billions of Barrels of oil. The Saudis are modern day slavers and plantation owners and their crop is oil.


Saudi regime is done for the minute US hegemony disappears. Whether by the extremists they nurture abroad or hopefully by western military intervention once Germany leads NATO and the US is out. Assad will be sitting pretty in Damascus, as he has for the last 10 years despite your best efforts shill.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Lmao look at this Saudi shill, Satan and Gabriel huh? Assad is a western educated doctor leading a legitimate democratic regime, not some head-chopping Bedouin version of Jed Clampet who's father just happened to pitch the tent he grew up in on top of billions of Barrels of oil. The Saudis are modern day slavers and plantation owners and their crop is oil.


Saudi regime is done for the minute US hegemony disappears. Whether by the extremists they nurture abroad or hopefully by western military intervention once Germany leads NATO and the US is out. Assad will be sitting pretty in Damascus, as he has for the last 10 years despite your best efforts shill.

You seem to really have a thing for Assad the Butcher.

https://www.economist.com/news/midd...rminated-syrian-jails-assads-torture-dungeons

https://news.vice.com/article/the-y...volution-speak-about-daraa-where-it-all-began

 

[amd6502]

Given a few of the comments some apt food for thought.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/07/20/the-reign-of-propaganda/

Propaganda happens just about anywhere these days; it commonly goes hand in hand with slimy politicians, an epidemic we are very familiar with here.

 

[FIVR]

You seem to really have a thing for Assad the Butcher.

https://www.economist.com/news/midd...rminated-syrian-jails-assads-torture-dungeons

https://news.vice.com/article/the-y...volution-speak-about-daraa-where-it-all-began

Didn't your government just pay some ten million or so $ to somebody for torturing them?


So I guess, if the definition of a "butcher" is that the people he leads engage in torture, then you would agree that we should also refer to "Obama the Butcher" and "Bush the Butcher" too? They both lead nations that tortured people.

I won't bother googling various shill articles like you and pasting them as if they are some form of argument (they aren't) but let me assure you, there are vast amounts of articles on US torture policies. I think you know this, but are blinded by your desire to shill for Sunni extremism?

 

[woolfe9998]

In related news, it looks like they arrested that Saudi girl for the crime of wearing a miniskirt in public:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/middleeast/saudi-arabia-miniskirt-video/index.html

Remains to be seen what her punishment will be. She should GTFO of SA if at all possible.

 

[Omar F1]

I remember I've lost a sleep after reading The New Yorker report about torture committed by those criminals, which are still called 'Syrian regime' by everybody's media. Such a hypocrite world.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/04/18/bashar-al-assads-war-crimes-exposed

For a little political extent, here is a short read
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/14/making-peace-with-assads-state-of-barbarism/

Beside the horror stories you hear from the Syrians, long even before the uprising begun.

Also add to your information that ISIS in Syria had started their recruiting offices and begun expanding right under the regime noises, unopposed and untouched.
There was that Syrian reporter shouting over a Syrian minister, probably in a Geneva convention, that he could provide him with "Google coordinates for ISIS bases", "why wouldn't the regime fighters attack them?".

 

[Victorian Gray]

Didn't your government just pay some ten million or so $ to somebody for torturing them?


So I guess, if the definition of a "butcher" is that the people he leads engage in torture, then you would agree that we should also refer to "Obama the Butcher" and "Bush the Butcher" too? They both lead nations that tortured people.

I won't bother googling various shill articles like you and pasting them as if they are some form of argument (they aren't) but let me assure you, there are vast amounts of articles on US torture policies. I think you know this, but are blinded by your desire to shill for Sunni extremism?

That's a good boy, keep your eyes and ears blocked and carry some more water for Assad.

 

[Omar F1]

Heh, I always remember 'The Peace Maker' movie when George Clooney before saving the scientist after accident: "Where did you learn English?", "Harvard University", "Bring him up, we have educated half the world terrorists!".
A top-class movie, with a timeless quote

 

[FIVR]

That's a good boy, keep your eyes and ears blocked and carry some more water for Assad.

At least I don't carry water for Bin Ladin



It is worrisome that I continually encounter people who otherwise hold reasonable views on the world but are compelled to brazenly shill for murderers and terrorists as long as they can further their anti-Assad rhetoric. You should seriously consider the people you excuse in your blind hatred for non-sunni muslims. Sure, Iran does some bad things... is it worth it though to be in bed with the likes of Sheik Muhaysi or Mohammad Bin-Nayef?


Remember this is a thread about Saudi and yet all you can do here is complain about Assad. Never a bad word about your Sunni allies.

 

[Victorian Gray]

At least I don't carry water for Bin Ladin

Fuck you

 

[amd6502]

At least Kent state was somewhat of an accident; somebody way at the bottom of the chain of command messed up.

Here youths actually get sentenced to f**ing death for peaceful protest asking to introduce some democracy into their country. This wasn't some riot or massive uprising but afaik a small protest, a peaceful non-threatening rally.

 

[Omar F1]

At least Kent state was somewhat of an accident; somebody way at the bottom of the chain of command messed up.

Here youths actually get sentenced to f**ing death for peaceful protest asking to introduce some democracy into their country. This wasn't some riot or massive uprising but afaik a small protest, a peaceful non-threatening rally.

I just made a quick search and turns out there is a lot more to that story than you already have.
I couldn't find English version though for the Saudi-based al Arabiya's report about their story. In short, he was part of a 24-members cell that were caught off al Qatif region in the East, which has had quite unsettling history between them and the authorities, being Shiites is just one reason and accused of loyalty to foreign agenda has plagued that region reputation for some time. Anyway, they were condemned in June 2016 with shit load of terrorism-related charges, 14 received the death penalty while the rest would serve jail.
Just fyi.