The F-35 is a piece of garbage!

Page 27 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
lol F-35’s kill ratio with aggressor jets stood at 15-1.
both the f35 and f22 raptor have scored high kill ratios in a mock game.

it's like saying I'm the best soldier because I have the highest score in Laser Tag.

also, even the if Falcons and super hornets cant see the f35 on radar, they can see the missiles they fire and take evasive action/counter measures (flares)?

how r they being hit?
 
Last edited:

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
lol F-35’s kill ratio with aggressor jets stood at 15-1.
both the f35 and f22 raptor have scored high kill ratios in a mock game.

it's like saying I'm the best soldier because I have the highest score in Laser Tag.

also, even the if Falcons and super hornets cant see the f35 on radar, they can see the missiles they fire and take evasive action/counter measures (flares)?

how r they being hit?

Evading air-to-air missiles isnt like the movies.

Its a lot harder than you think it is, with only one current tactic currently working against modern missiles, which actually involves flying directly at the missile like a massive game of chicken. The new generation of air-to-air missiles coming out, like the ones with new AESA radar, are very likely to be all but impossible to survive.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
The F-22 already showed us that 4th Gen Fighters are no match for 5th gen. So, if the data actually supports the article's claim - it wouldn't be a surprise.
 

DIREWOLF75

Member
Nov 22, 2003
30
8
76
Here is the problem with your story

Yes because obviously it would be such a great idea to have such mounted while trying to impress a future buyer with how amazingly stealthy the planes are.
That makes sooo much sense, except you know, not.

If RCS enhancers were used, it would never have been noteworthy in the first place. Like, duh...
 

DIREWOLF75

Member
Nov 22, 2003
30
8
76
Evading air-to-air missiles isnt like the movies.

Its a lot harder than you think it is, with only one current tactic currently working against modern missiles, which actually involves flying directly at the missile like a massive game of chicken. The new generation of air-to-air missiles coming out, like the ones with new AESA radar, are very likely to be all but impossible to survive.

No, there´s more tactics that works against modern missiles, flying towards it and then maneuvering is just one of the more effective, if your timing is good enough, you can force most missiles to miss every time. And it should also be mentioned that modern ECM has GREATLY improved in the last 20 years.

AESA isn´t an automatic "i win" button, it improves data generated which in turn allows the programming to function more effectively etc etc, but that does not equate autohit.
In fact, last i read about it, it seems more likely that recent upgrades are considered an almost requirement to not come near invalidating missiles due to defensive improvements, tactics and ECM mostly, but viable decoys are also almost certainly coming in the next decade.

There is good reason why the Russians already have made it a standard tactics to never fire less than 2 missiles against an air target, with different seekers, because it´s become too easy to avoid just one. Other nations are mostly either following or debating following this change of tactics. USA is actually the only major military i have not yet heard anything from about doing the same, although i expect that is because of the influence of the military industry generally promising things they can´t deliver, but being loud enough about it for any dissent to be overruled by sheer noise.

For comparison, the currently most used US AMRAAM model is expected to have 20-25% hit probability against a currently modernised Su-27 derivative, 20 years ago, that number was over 50%(and over 60% vs export versions). Latest model AMRAAM is "better", but noone really knows if its 1% better or 10%, nor are they replacing the older ones until they´ve been used up anyway so barely any production.

When Meteor was designed, it was meant to be a 1 shot 1 kill missile, yet despite being probably the most effective missile currently in existance, its hit probability against a modern non-stealth fighter is likely not above 60%. Similar with IRIS-T and the never built upgraded Sidewinder.

The primary issue with radarguided missiles is also very very simple, when the missile is close to its target, it is far from the launching fighter which means if the target has strong ECM, it can easily(relatively) overpower guiding data. And its even worse if the missile is an Active Radar homer, because then it is even more disadvantaged in pure size and power, as with a Semiactive Radar homer, the launching plane´s "lock" can at least usually project enough pulse energy to not just simply loose that "lock".
 

DIREWOLF75

Member
Nov 22, 2003
30
8
76
The F-22 already showed us that 4th Gen Fighters are no match for 5th gen. So, if the data actually supports the article's claim - it wouldn't be a surprise.

You´ve apparently missed the little detail that the "5th generation" thing is a marketing ploy that those who wanted to sell F-22 and later F-35 came up with? And that the "definition" has effectively been tailored to include no other planes into it. The funny thing however is that the F-35 haven´t even managed to stick to the definition for a long time now.

And the original definition that was used before the F-22 went into service, according to that, the F-22 isn´t a 5th generation either, this due to how some features were cut before serial production.

And i would say that the simulation is the kind that also made sure that the M1-A2 and -A3 models were taken into production of the Abrams tank.
In short, the original trial had a company facing a company of A1s. And got their asses kicked.
So then a company of A2s was up against 2 platoons of A1s, and got their asses kicked again, even worse than the first time because the opfor guys were so pissed about the rigging.
So finally a company of A2s faced off against a single platoon of A1s and predictably won easily now that the crews of those were getting used to the opfor.
And suddenly the result of the last test was used as absolute proof of how much better the A2 was compared to the A1. While making it look like the result came from the 1st test where numbers were equal.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Meh, methinks the critics get hung up too much on the airframe when the bulk of the effort and bugs are due to the computerized elements of it. Now, the airframe is indeed compromised, but probably not to the extent that the critics make it out to be. It might be 10-20% compromised compared to the f22.

I wonder what sort of computers they're using here. I bet that a bunch are like Pentium II 300mhz or something like that.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,138
5,074
136
Yes because obviously it would be such a great idea to have such mounted while trying to impress a future buyer with how amazingly stealthy the planes are.
That makes sooo much sense, except you know, not.

If RCS enhancers were used, it would never have been noteworthy in the first place. Like, duh...

So basically, your a dumbass.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
So basically, your a dumbass.

Look at his posts. It's like reading the youtube comments after a fake 'Russia is the best Military EVAR' video. No unbiased proof, no cites, nothing more than opinion. And any reasonable person can tell you why that is. The actual capabilities of these aircraft, their electronics, their missles, and everything else is secret. Just like the performance of the latest Russian SAM systems, and just about everything else in the military world.

That's always been the military's problem. How do you prove a weapon system is worth the money you are spending on it when it's in your best interests to not release it's actual performance? Answer: You can't. So you spawn this kind of ignorant back and forth where people regurgitate talking points and bullshit.
 

PlanetJosh

Golden Member
May 6, 2013
1,815
143
106
Never really thought about anti aircraft missiles being easy to evade until I read about it in this thread. Let's say it's true. Assume your missiles won't hit or very few will hit an attacking force of enemy jets. Couldn't you just prevent them from hitting a land based target by continuously harassing them with your missiles, making them deviate from their intended land target? The enemy jets would have to turn a lot to evade, throwing them off course.

If it's only a big dogfight then very few jets will get hit since you have about the same defenses on your jets. So then both sides would just fly around evading until fuel is used up. Sorry, just trying to see how far that theory would go.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
I wonder what sort of computers they're using here. I bet that a bunch are like Pentium II 300mhz or something like that.

From what I've read - embedded PowerPC CPUs. I haven't read anything on the specs.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
I think the newer versions are faster than that PPC750, but they have to be manufactured on 130nm or higher node because they have to be shielded from EM interference and radiation. They are definitely now 64bit (vs the RAD750 is 32 bit).
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Well, on the one hand, the DOD & contractors want everything to look rosy from the outside and on the other, groups like POGO want to unveil every potential wart. I figure the truth is somewhere in between. The F-35 is an extremely complex and expensive F/B. This reminds me of what I had read about the F-111 project; but the stakes are much higher now.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
I think the newer versions are faster than that PPC750, but they have to be manufactured on 130nm or higher node because they have to be shielded from EM interference and radiation. They are definitely now 64bit (vs the RAD750 is 32 bit).


Thanks - good to know (sorry I forgot to respond). I thought I had read that there was a 90nm rad hardened process - but my mind could just be going
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
So I'm trying to understand how radar can see it, but not track it.

Targetting radar is not the same as search radar. Targetting radar needs far greater precision, and needs to hit the target often (or 'illuminate' the target) so that the missle can see it as it's going in. You may get a return in search radar but be unable to firm it up and lock it with your targetting radar. So you know they're there, but you can't hit them.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126

The F-35 is terrible at dogfighting, and is slow to boot. That's going to be a real vulnerability in Soviet or Chinese airspace where ground controllers can point cheap masses of Cold War ~Mach 3 interceptors like the Mig-25/31 which can intercept the slow F-35 quickly and simply shoot it down with traditional heat seekers.

That's the problem with the F-35, it's going to quite vulnerable to large numbers of older generation planes in close quarters. I mean the F-35 can't even carry that many missiles. When you are out of ammo you won't be able to run away, since it's a Mach 1.7 max airframe. The F-22 will probably be the first one's in contested airspace as it has the most powerful thrust of any jet-fighter ever made and can actual gun the engines and run if need be.

I mean remember what the Russians did just to chase down a single SR-71 in peace-time with multiple fleets of Mig31s.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |