The first TRUE DX12 title (DualShockers)

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USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,542
780
136
Out of curiosity, how come? What is it about Steam that makes it indispensable? Steam achievements? Social integration? Ease of having all your games in a single catalogue?

The Windows store had some massive issues - look at some of the earlier releases. The games had some severe technical issues and a famous example was Rise of the Tombraider. The Steam version was much less buggier than the version released through the Windows store.
 

nathanddrews

Graphics Cards, CPU Moderator
Aug 9, 2016
965
534
136
www.youtube.com
Ease of having all of my games in a single catalogue, for sure.

I'm certain that you're aware of this - but in case anyone else isn't, you can add non-Steam games to the Steam library, use launch commands, Steam stream to other PCs, etc.

Given the option, I'm in the same mindset. For me it comes down to wanting as few accounts/spyware on my machine as possible. Microsoft already has me with Windows 10 and Xbox Live. Valve has me with Steam. EA with Origin. Ubisoft with UPlay... Minecraft... Gearbox... Battle.net... Trion Worlds... Marvel Heroes...

FML
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
Ease of having all of my games in a single catalogue, for sure.

That's a fair enough reason I tend to play a lot of my games on the couch with Steam Big Picture, it makes browsing games a lot easier. It's a pain to have to drop back to M + K for the occasional Origin game I want to play.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
If this will be windows store only, then good bye.

Yup. I heard about so many issues with Windows Store ROTTR. I enjoy Gears games, and would like to play it, but not enough to go Windows Store. Not unless it's ever on an extraordinarily low sale price.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,843
21,641
146
Yup. I heard about so many issues with Windows Store ROTTR. I enjoy Gears games, and would like to play it, but not enough to go Windows Store. Not unless it's ever on an extraordinarily low sale price.
Same here. But if it is as big of a PITA as Gears Ultimate was, they better batten down the hatches because a s***storm of monstrous proportions is coming. Simply downloading and installing the game was a long, drawn out, nightmare. Took months to address performance issues that should have been solved before release, and even longer to add the graphics settings control it has now.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
Looking forward to this. 80gb HD space though! [redacted], that's stupid.

Vulgar language is off limits in VC&G
-Elfear
 
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Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
Its software and its not software for the F35, a windows level operating system or some space ship software. Companies with much less money than microsoft are still making game engines.

We're not, or at least I'm not, discussing whether Microsoft is capable of making their own game engine. No one in their right mind would doubt that, as Microsoft is one of the most capable and influential software producers in the World. But to make a game engine from scratch that can rival the likes of UE4, Frostbite 3, CryEngine etcetera would be an enormous undertaking, and probably not worth the effort to be honest.

What epic is able to do is their problem. Unreal Engine conversion to dx12 might well be harder to do than create a dx12 engine from the ground up because its a mass of code already. Not to mention their engine was already behind the curve so why think they have the expertise above other groups?

UE4 is behind the curve? Are you serious?! UE4 is perhaps the most advanced engine out there. There's a reason why so many devs use it. Also, UE4 is one of the few engines that actually have a dynamic global illumination system, and a multithreaded animation system.

Engines are also heavily modified by groups. eg. source engine in titanfall. Oxide developed their own engine on a relatively small budget and without a massive company (around 200 people on many projects). They've supported mantle, dx12, dx11 and plan to support vulkan.

Yes, but the Nitrous engine is specifically engineered for RTS games. Making a more flexible engine that can support a wide variety of games would be much more difficult.

that microsoft doesn't seem to have their own engine is kind of an embarrassment. If they thought enough to buy havok, then they should have thought about building an engine to take full advantage of their hardware and windows. Or at least buying one

Microsoft has a strong relationship with Epic, so they don't really need their own engine per say.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
UE4 is behind the curve? Are you serious?! UE4 is perhaps the most advanced engine out there. There's a reason why so many devs use it.

The reason why so many devs are using it probably also has a lot to do with EPIC making it free (with royalties).

Also, UE4 is one of the few engines that actually have a dynamic global illumination system.

Actually I'm pretty sure that UE4 doesn't have a truly dynamic GI implementation. It was planned at one point (SVOGI), but EPIC dropped it.
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
The reason why so many devs are using it probably also has a lot to do with EPIC making it free (with royalties).



Actually I'm pretty sure that UE4 doesn't have a truly dynamic GI implementation. It was planned at one point (SVOGI), but EPIC dropped it.
Cryengine is the most advance engine out there(in terms of material quality ue4 looks plastic).it's just IBL which was hindering it but with new SVOTI ( and not VXGI) it is unbeatable in visuals.
and it is also proving itself in Kingdom and star citizen and upcoming prey.
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
The reason why so many devs are using it probably also has a lot to do with EPIC making it free (with royalties).

So what other engine should they be using then, according to you? You don't think they know what's best for them?

Actually I'm pretty sure that UE4 doesn't have a truly dynamic GI implementation. It was planned at one point (SVOGI), but EPIC dropped it.

No 3D engine currently supports real time global illumination for all light sources, as it's way too expensive. But LPV, or light propagation volumes looks very nice in Unreal Engine 4 whilst running very fast. CryEngine uses the same technique I believe, as they pioneered it. Fable Legends was going to use it, but the game got cancelled unfortunately.

 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
Cryengine is the most advance engine out there(in terms of material quality ue4 looks plastic).it's just IBL which was hindering it but with new SVOTI ( and not VXGI) it is unbeatable in visuals..

CryEngine is great, undoubtedly, but I haven't seen any engine with material shaders that look this great, whilst running at this frame rate:

 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
LPV in Cryengine removed long ago and now it uses IBL and SVOGI and a combination of both known as SVOTI.
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
CryEngine is great, undoubtedly, but I haven't seen any engine with material shaders that look this great, whilst running at this frame rate:

Great video and one of my friend following this game. Rich textures and lightmass GI makes this and paragon look marvelous but what I am talking is about the closeness to real life material quality which only Cryengine provides atm


watch from 15 23
just for material quality and PBR/PBS and not for sharp textures.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
So what other engine should they be using then, according to you? You don't think they know what's best for them?

Sure they know what's best for them, but if you want to judge the quality of an engine on the amount of use it's seeing amongst developers, then Unity would be an even better engine than UE4.

No 3D engine currently supports real time global illumination for all light sources, as it's way too expensive. But LPV, or light propagation volumes looks very nice in Unreal Engine 4 whilst running very fast.

Actually SVOTI in CryEngine supports real time GI for all light sources to my knowledge (although it comes with some limitations with regards to dynamic objects).

LPV tends to produce some iffy results at times, the better solution in UE4 at this point is probably DFGI or HFGI (used in the kite demo, but apparently put on the backburner for now) possibly in combination with Lightmass.

Problem is that all of these solutions are work in progress for UE so to simply say that "UE4 has dynamic GI" is a statement that comes with a ton of caveats, which was really my point.

And the current dynamic GI solutions in UE4 are certainly nowhere near SVOTI in Cryengine (unless you count Nvidia's VXGI, but the performance hit and compatibility issues, makes that a bit of a non-starter).
 
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Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Great video and one of my friend following this game. Rich textures and lightmass GI makes this and paragon look marvelous but what I am talking is about the closeness to real life material quality which only Cryengine provides atm


watch from 15 23
just for material quality and PBR/PBS and not for sharp textures.

Have you played Paragon? That's the best incarnation of UE4 graphics so I'd compare to that. It looks incredible
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
I am new to gaming.
I think their open beta for Paragon is still going so you can just download it and walk around in it for free. I think it will be F2P too when it comes out so either way no cost to you. Personally I thought it looked fantastic and it has less of that plastic-ey overly bumpmapped Unreal 3 Gears of War look to it
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
Problem is that all of these solutions are work in progress for UE so to simply say that "UE4 has dynamic GI" is a statement that comes with a ton of caveats, which was really my point.

And the current dynamic GI solutions in UE4 are certainly nowhere near SVOTI in Cryengine (unless you count Nvidia's VXGI, but the performance hit and compatibility issues, makes that a bit of a non-starter).
That's what I'm saying but Cryengine SVOTI has not started to mature to make it useful or intense battle game like the one in OP though upcoming 5.x updates make improvements.
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
I think their open beta for Paragon is still going so you can just download it and walk around in it for free. I think it will be F2P too when it comes out so either way no cost to you. Personally I thought it looked fantastic and it has less of that plastic-ey overly bumpmapped Unreal 3 Gears of War look to it
Actually it's about the GPU. On HD7750 now.
I expected rx480 to be cheap but in my country it costs above 400$. Same with gp106.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
That's what I'm saying but Cryengine SVOTI has not started to mature to make it useful or intense battle game like the one in OP though upcoming 5.x updates make improvements.

Well it's used in Kingdom come: Deliverance, but I suppose that isn't really an "intense battle game" to quite the same degree as GoW4, although it still does feature some fairly heavy combat scenes.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
1,438
67
91
Main issue with windows store for me is that its not dedicated to gaming. Not enough. seeing mobile games, shows etc on there
We're not, or at least I'm not, discussing whether Microsoft is capable of making their own game engine. No one in their right mind would doubt that, as Microsoft is one of the most capable and influential software producers in the World. But to make a game engine from scratch that can rival the likes of UE4, Frostbite 3, CryEngine etcetera would be an enormous undertaking, and probably not worth the effort to be honest.

every AAA game is an enormous undertaking and possibly not worth the effort. An engine that would benefit all their games down the line is not a waste. Though they may have several engines already depending on the arrangement they have with exclusive game devs. Forza for example should be using a proprietary engine rather than a bargain bin one like unreal engine.

UE4 is behind the curve? Are you serious?! UE4 is perhaps the most advanced engine out there. There's a reason why so many devs use it. Also, UE4 is one of the few engines that actually have a dynamic global illumination system, and a multithreaded animation system.

its always been because of accessibility. Now its free on top of that. It was the easier way to do it. Maybe of those games would have been better on another engine, eg. all the batman games especially when they went a bit open world. Can't wait to see what mass effect does while free of its limitation.


Yes, but the Nitrous engine is specifically engineered for RTS games. Making a more flexible engine that can support a wide variety of games would be much more difficult.

says who?

Q. Can I make a massively multiplayer game with Nitrous?
A. Yes. Nitrous is designed to handle very heavy workloads like you would see in a massively multiplayer game. From high unit counts in gathering places to lush and full environments, we would love to help bring your world to life.

http://www.oxidegames.com/nitrous/

MMO RTS?

Great video and one of my friend following this game. Rich textures and lightmass GI makes this and paragon look marvelous but what I am talking is about the closeness to real life material quality which only Cryengine provides atm


watch from 15 23
just for material quality and PBR/PBS and not for sharp textures.

that looks good. But I suspect this wont be that great at launch.
 
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