The future of the GOP

[bamacre]

The question is: how long this liberal moment goes."

I think the question is: where will this liberal movement go.

 

[ElFenix]

nested quote fest!


you guys know there is a delete key on your keyboard, right?





anyway, reanimate teddy roosevelt and let him kick everyone's ass.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Arkaign
The 'base' has been trained to flip the (R) switch regardless for the GOP, just as there is the (D) base that always votes the straight Dem ticket.

Sure, there is some of that but before Palin - the massive rumblings were about the "base" not coming out for McCain. Go back and look it up. All the reporting was about if McCain stood a chance without picking someone to get the "base" to the voting booth.

And it was a load of crap. Please find me an example from history of the party NOT getting the base 30% or so. All the hype was just zealots whining, but they still would have pulled the lever.

Maybe, maybe not. I was not going to vote(for President) but in the end decided to make my protest vote be tallied so I voted for Barr. I know others who are doing the same and we would be considered "the base" by most definitions.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think they should be put on the endangered species list and protected in zoos.

Those in the Midwest and the South should be building 900 year old McNoah's Arc. A mighty wave is headed their way from both coasts.

And so it came to pass that in those days, in heterosexual pairs, they trudged from far and wide to board the Arc of Loons and for forty days and nights they were tossed hither thither by the mighty waves of their own shit they themselves had created and lo, on the 40th day they settled onto Mt Rushmore, into the gentle hands of Abraham Lincoln, whose second coming had brought about their tidal perturbation, and thus it was that stupidity, bigotry, blindness, and ignorance were preserved even down unto today, in this the 30th century.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Arkaign
The 'base' has been trained to flip the (R) switch regardless for the GOP, just as there is the (D) base that always votes the straight Dem ticket.

Sure, there is some of that but before Palin - the massive rumblings were about the "base" not coming out for McCain. Go back and look it up. All the reporting was about if McCain stood a chance without picking someone to get the "base" to the voting booth.

Allright, to be honest I do remember that, but I remember thinking, well that's just as stupid as the Hillary acolytes voting Republican because she lost the Primary. Sure it sounded like something, but it was really just temporary frustration that quickly faded back into party loyalty. The loyalists always pull the switch for their party. Those voters are a waste of time pandering to.

Now I can respect your position and your opinions, even if I disagree. All I ask is that you do the same and not try to pretend like this isn't going to be a legitimate issue. I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that in the coming weeks, you'll see the EXACT same question posed by Fox talking heads and other far-right pundits like Savage, Beck, Rush, etc.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Arkaign
The 'base' has been trained to flip the (R) switch regardless for the GOP, just as there is the (D) base that always votes the straight Dem ticket.

Sure, there is some of that but before Palin - the massive rumblings were about the "base" not coming out for McCain. Go back and look it up. All the reporting was about if McCain stood a chance without picking someone to get the "base" to the voting booth.

Allright, to be honest I do remember that, but I remember thinking, well that's just as stupid as the Hillary acolytes voting Republican because she lost the Primary. Sure it sounded like something, but it was really just temporary frustration that quickly faded back into party loyalty. The loyalists always pull the switch for their party. Those voters are a waste of time pandering to.

Now I can respect your position and your opinions, even if I disagree. All I ask is that you do the same and not try to pretend like this isn't going to be a legitimate issue. I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that in the coming weeks, you'll see the EXACT same question posed by Fox talking heads and other far-right pundits like Savage, Beck, Rush, etc.

No where did I say it wasn't a legit question - however - HERE it is due to it being a liberal cesspool. Ofcourse the libs are going to suggest the GOP go left... it's just silliness here.

 

[Arkaign]

CAD, you do realize that there are many sensible conservative voices here amidst the waves. JD50, PaleHorse, GenX, and so on, usually have legitimate posts with logical reasoning behind them. Of course the odd Butterbean, and the inconsistent ProfJohn skew things somewhat, but nuts abound on the internet anyway.

The GOP *should* move left on certain issues, or at least abandon hard-line stances on them, while moving decidedly right on other issues. <-- this is my opinion of course, but I'm quite certain I'm not alone here. If the GOP is going to be relevant in the future of the 21st century, some notable changes must take place.

If you think this is such a 'lib' cesspool, maybe you shouldn't waste your time here.

 

[TheSlamma]

They can't move any more right.. next stop is Fascism.

Seriously, they need to stop the praise Jesus shit, they need to stop saying we will cut taxes but spend like an angry teenager with a credit card. They need to stop the pure mud sling campaigns and they need to stop thinking that just because they believe they have an afterlife we can treat this planet like complete shit.

 

[Vic]

Unfortunately, I see the Republican party moving farther right towards the religious fundies and nationalism, essentially marginalizing themselves.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Vic
Unfortunately, I see the Republican party moving farther right towards the religious fundies and nationalism, essentially marginalizing themselves.

That's entirely possible. That would be a shame, and I'm not all that trusting of the Democrats to keep spending under control, and taxes in line. Though at this point in time, this conservative feels fully that the continuation of recent GOP policy would be a total disaster for this country. I hope Obama proves worthy of this chance, and I have a good feeling he will be.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of the future of the republican party, and its choices of more right or left, the NYT, on yesterday had a depressing OP ED written by Paul Krugman predicting a sharp right turn. The OP ED had a title of the republican rump of something like that, a cursory search today and I can't find it, so I will give a synopsis of what I remember.

But basically the Krugman reasoning was, the GOP candidates who survive the election of 2008 are far more likely to come from far very conservative States and be the most far right, and those who lose will be the more moderate of the GOP in more typical States being somewhat unfairly punished for the excesses of the more far right elements in the GOP, net effect, an even more far right GOP leadership post 11/5/2008.
And with Limbaugh and others leading the cheers, the GOP may sadly but cheerfully reach the goal of complete extinction in the election of 11/2010.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Vic
Unfortunately, I see the Republican party moving farther right towards the religious fundies and nationalism, essentially marginalizing themselves.

That's entirely possible. That would be a shame, and I'm not all that trusting of the Democrats to keep spending under control, and taxes in line. Though at this point in time, this conservative feels fully that the continuation of recent GOP policy would be a total disaster for this country. I hope Obama proves worthy of this chance, and I have a good feeling he will be.

Yeah, I'm optimistic about Obama. Largely due to what we're talking about here, the Dems are not all hippie liberals anymore. The farther the Pubs moved to the right, the more moderates found themselves with the Dems. There's a good number of conservative and moderate Dems in Congress now. Obama is going to have to take the moderate, centrist stance if he wants to get anything done, and IMO he seems to know that already.

Still, I'm like you. I don't trust the Dems any more than I trust the Pubs, and the last thing I want is a one-party state. OTOH, I can't support the Pubs when they refuse to be fiscally conservative, when they insist on putting their religion into the laws, and when they insist on ignoring our country's internal problems for the sake of pursuing unnecessary and costly wars. Of course, then there's the issue that nothing is ever their fault.... sigh.

What I would like to see is the Pubs move back to more of a Goldwater/Buckley conservatism. I'm not convinced that's gonna happen though, especially with Rush&co calling for an "ideological purity." So maybe a 3rd party rises up or is created to fill the gap. That would be interesting to see in our lifetimes.

 

[extra]

Would love the republicans to move to the left on social issues, and then move to the right on most economic stuff. Ie, a party for the government to just stay out of people's lives.

 

[Genx87]

Not sure where it goes from here. Ideally we need to get back to small govt, low taxation and fiscal conservatism.

The problem presented however is I dont believe the American populace believes in that anymore. Which means the Republicans are going to head right along with it. They will continue to publish their own brand of big govt. Probably some kind of neo-con branch.

The thing that truely gets me right now is the disconnect between blacks+hispanics and republicans. All of them are typically socially conservative. The republicans have completely dropped the ball with these demographics. At this point the only way they can look to the future is to dump the extreme right bigots. If they dont, the democrats will continue to dominate. There is definately a place for fiscal conservativism among these demographics. Not all of these people want to leech off the system.

I think one of the best ways for republicans to get this going to is to openly talk immigration reform over the next 2-4 years. McCain while not the ideal candidate did have a comprehensive immigration policy. One that I believe if tweaked could sit well with hispanics. The bottom line is we are making it entirely too difficult for people to legally come here. The only option they have is to jump the fence and live in the under culture. The under culture helps nobody. Push a legitimate and realistic path to legal status. And make the case logically and I think the conservatives will come around while opening up a line of communication with the 2nd largest demographic in the country.

The people who hold onto their racial bias we dont need in the party anyways. It hurts your campaigns to have dipshits screaming racists comments at a rally. It conjures up images of the Nazis at the Nuremberg rallies. That doesnt sit well with the moderates.

They have 2 years to align themselves or we are looking at a possiblity of a single party govt. Which is terrifying imo.

 

[brencat]

I think the Republican party learns their lesson here and begins to refocus on traditional economic issues and smaller govt/lower taxes. If they go even more to the right, they are doomed. However, don't expect a change in the abortion stance -- it may be deemphasized a bit but will never go away.

 

[AstroManLuca]

You have a good point, Genx87. I normally disagree with your views but I'm totally with you that the Republicans need to drop the "socially conservative base" like it's hot. It's keeping a lot of potential supporters out. Social issues are very emotionally charged and it's hard to look past them and vote based solely on economic or other cold, factual reasons.

Like you said, there are already a lot of socially conservative people out there who still vote for Democrats anyway. The ones who reliably vote Republicans are the single-issue abortion voters, but the GOP hasn't really done much of anything to advance the pro-life cause. If the GOP de-emphasized their socially conservative stances and worked on getting lots of fiscally conservative, socially liberal (or at least neutral) people into the party, that would open up the doors for an influx of fiscally conservative Democrats whose main reason for voting with the Democratic party was to avoid a religiously-influenced government.

Although I consider myself a pretty classic liberal, it's always nice to have actual choices. I want to be able to vote Republican and not feel bad about it.

 

[Mani]

They can't move much further to the right. My suggestion to them would be to quit letting the inmates run the asylum. The lunatic fringe has taken control of the party because it feels they are the only reliable voting bloc they can count on. It's alienated independents and moderates within their own party.

 

[jonks]

It can't stay the same or move to the right. It's currently an overwhemlingly white party in a country with a shrinking white percentage. The GOP needs a major overhaul or it will keep dwindling away. It's most important order of business has to be to broaden the base beyond the Palin fans and evangelicals. Until they become an acceptable party to minorities out there, they'll be going nowhere fast.

 

[Arkaign]

Interesting post GenX, and it completely emphasizes the alienation that recent GOP policy and direction choices have caused amongst independents and rational-minded conservatives.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Neither of the parties is worth a shit. If we can't redo it from the ground up the next best would be to split parties along theory lines.

Republicans should split to Libertarians, Republicans, and Constitution. Libertarians are looking for individual rights above all, Republicans looking for state rights over all, and Constitution wants a theocracy.

Democrats should split to Green, Socialist, and Democrat. Greens are environmentalists, Socialists are, well, socialists, and Democrats are looking for strong, proactive central government without the socialist economic overtones.

Those splits would allow a MUCH closer fit with individual political stances and greatly strengthen each segment.

That's compelling to think about. I've heard that most other countries have several powerful parties instead of just two, and I can imagine that would decentralize power while centralizing policy.

 

[trenchfoot]

What the repubs really needed this election cycle and in the future was/is a charismatic (like Obama), only with right-wing credentials that could unite the party and give it a spiffy new (but traditional at the hidden core) image. McCain only satisfied the associative component of that equation and failed miserably at marketing himself. It's the same party full of the same people with the same ideologies; that's not going to change any time soon. They just need a new slickee to sell the same 'ol schtikee.

The hard core folks that control the party got too full of themselves, got too greedy too fast and are now paying the price for their gluttony. The middle class/poor party faithful that have no meaningful influence over the corporate extremists that now control the party went along for the ride and basically got the shaft and not much else other than promises to back them in the all-too-important areas of immigration and gay/abortion rights. wooop-peeee.

Rove is dead. Long Live the True Righties.


edit - *ooops* forgot to mention the second amendment protagonists in the "all too important" line.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In terms of the future of the republican party, and its choices of more right or left, the NYT, on yesterday had a depressing OP ED written by Paul Krugman predicting a sharp right turn. The OP ED had a title of the republican rump of something like that, a cursory search today and I can't find it, so I will give a synopsis of what I remember.

But basically the Krugman reasoning was, the GOP candidates who survive the election of 2008 are far more likely to come from far very conservative States and be the most far right, and those who lose will be the more moderate of the GOP in more typical States being somewhat unfairly punished for the excesses of the more far right elements in the GOP, net effect, an even more far right GOP leadership post 11/5/2008.
And with Limbaugh and others leading the cheers, the GOP may sadly but cheerfully reach the goal of complete extinction in the election of 11/2010.

It is what I have been saying for a while. When McCain is defeated the republicans move far right on all issues. I blame the moderates who nominated McCain and then jumped ship. This was the one chance to move the republican party towards the center. It really sucks the democrats have moved left and now the republicans will move hardcore right. It will be 4 more years of no party for me.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Not sure where it goes from here. Ideally we need to get back to small govt, low taxation and fiscal conservatism.

The problem presented however is I dont believe the American populace believes in that anymore. Which means the Republicans are going to head right along with it. They will continue to publish their own brand of big govt. Probably some kind of neo-con branch.

The thing that truely gets me right now is the disconnect between blacks+hispanics and republicans. All of them are typically socially conservative. The republicans have completely dropped the ball with these demographics. At this point the only way they can look to the future is to dump the extreme right bigots. If they dont, the democrats will continue to dominate. There is definately a place for fiscal conservativism among these demographics. Not all of these people want to leech off the system.

I think one of the best ways for republicans to get this going to is to openly talk immigration reform over the next 2-4 years. McCain while not the ideal candidate did have a comprehensive immigration policy. One that I believe if tweaked could sit well with hispanics. The bottom line is we are making it entirely too difficult for people to legally come here. The only option they have is to jump the fence and live in the under culture. The under culture helps nobody. Push a legitimate and realistic path to legal status. And make the case logically and I think the conservatives will come around while opening up a line of communication with the 2nd largest demographic in the country.

The people who hold onto their racial bias we dont need in the party anyways. It hurts your campaigns to have dipshits screaming racists comments at a rally. It conjures up images of the Nazis at the Nuremberg rallies. That doesnt sit well with the moderates.

They have 2 years to align themselves or we are looking at a possiblity of a single party govt. Which is terrifying imo.

Good post, They definitly have a demographic's problem. The minorities you mention are ripe for the pickens. They also need to figure out how to draw the young voters. The party has become increasingly "old".

Many moderate Republicans turned a blind eye to the grand coalition that Rove had constructed for them (the permanent majority - with echoes of a 1000 year Reich) only because it was a demonstrable electoral winning strategy. Until now.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that another person sees Obama as a threat and finds comfort in the conservative figure of 'war hero/public servant' McCain, these are mirror image realities and people are entitled to express their deeply held political alliegances. What I find hard to swallow on either side, is the unthinking support for one's party no matter what the background political context at the time, and the massive desire to abuse anyone who disagrees.

I hope that whatever happens that a new age of dignity and sobriety re-enters American public discourse.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Snoop
For me, I would love to see the repubs move to the center on social issues and a swing FAR to the right on fiscal policy. Also, dump the religious right.

I totally agree. The GOP needs to reinvent itself around pragmatic problem solving and drop the social agenda at the national level. National GOP movement should be more or less libertarian - Strong conservative economic roots but be way more neutral on social issues (which is why I supported Romney). That way they will have a broader appeal (to the Ron Paul bots and Independents) and get support from libertarians who I feel mostly vote Democrat because of the social issue. Leave the social agenda to the state and local level.

With that said if by some miracle McCain wins it will be the end of the GOP.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
I could give a shit less about the GOP. They have abandoned my ideals and core beliefs on the fiscal side. I am hoping a new party emerges from the ashes of the GOP that can truly hold to the conservative ideals that so many "Republicans" hold dear.

The new power base is forming around Sarah Palin. We need to stop this.