The "Gay Lifestyle" Myth

[Cerpin Taxt]

Also, wtf are you talking about we haven't evolved "past" other animals. Are you kidding? Don't know if you know this we are apes. You know the other apes? Yeah... they're fucking NOTHING compared to us. We evolved past them.

Again, you don't understand how evolution works. We didn't evolve "past" other primates. We simply share a common ancestor with them.

Imagine you have a mother with a sister -- your aunt. They share a common ancestor -- your grandmother. Now, suppose your mother and her sister have families of their own. Which family is "more evolved"?

Neither, because "more evolved" and "less evolved" make no sense in evolutionary theory.

/The more you know...

 

[MJinZ]

Again, you don't understand how evolution works. We didn't evolve "past" other primates. We simply share a common ancestor with them.

Imagine you have a mother with a sister -- your aunt. They share a common ancestor -- your grandmother. Now, suppose your mother and her sister have families of their own. Which family is "more evolved"?

Neither, because "more evolved" and "less evolved" make no sense in evolutionary theory.

/The more you know...

"More" is not necessarily relevant. You could theoretically conclude who is "more" evolved by comparing the % of functional differences in genetic material, that takes into account additions, deletions and substitutions. How that actually contributes to survival capacity, higher function, etc can either be obvious or more difficult to determine.

 

[bfdd]

Again, you don't understand how evolution works. We didn't evolve "past" other primates. We simply share a common ancestor with them.

Imagine you have a mother with a sister -- your aunt. They share a common ancestor -- your grandmother. Now, suppose your mother and her sister have families of their own. Which family is "more evolved"?

Neither, because "more evolved" and "less evolved" make no sense in evolutionary theory.

/The more you know...

... you obviously don't understand the phrasing. I'm saying they are below us, that we have evolved past the point where it's fair to compare our species and say "oh we're like that because they're like that" or vice versa. Unless it is genetic, behavior shouldn't be compared.

 

[fallout man]

You could theoretically conclude who is "more" evolved by comparing the % of functional differences in genetic material

Aren't you our little proteomics expert here in our little politics and news board!

Cool story, Bro. With smarts like yours, you could get a Hughes grant right out of high-school!

 

[MJinZ]

Aren't you our little proteomics expert here in our little politics and news board!

Cool story, Bro. With smarts like yours, you could get a Hughes grant right out of high-school!

Thanks. I don't have a Biochemistry and Chemistry degree for nothing. Apparently you don't even know what a Protein is?

 

[fallout man]

Thanks. I don't have a Biochemistry and Chemistry degree for nothing. Apparently you don't even know what a Protein is?

I'm happy for you. However, when you try to make the DNA (cell biology)-->behavior (neurobiology/psyhobiology) connection as a chemist/biochemist, you're going to be missing a lot of links which are simply not in your curriculum. You can scour the code for errors all you want, looking for your additions, deletions, substitutions, or the what-nots... but I hope that you have a firm grasp of the epigenetics literature when you make broad and sweeping generalizations.

Things get much more complicated down the stream, dawg.

 

[umbrella39]

This. Just because you are gay doesnt mean you have to become a flamer or all of a sudden develop a lisp. They create their own stereotype and then bitch about it.

Yeah because being teased, ridiculed, having the shit kicked out of them over and over is the desired outcome of being gay.

 

[Greenman]

I would think so, after all what straight dude in his right mind would choose to fuck another hairy assed dude?

And that's pretty much the whole argument in a nutshell. I simply can't fathom why anyone would want to have sex with a man.

 

[zinfamous]

... you obviously don't understand the phrasing. I'm saying they are below us, that we have evolved past the point where it's fair to compare our species and say "oh we're like that because they're like that" or vice versa. Unless it is genetic, behavior shouldn't be compared.

evolution describes adaptation to an organisms environment, it's particular needs. We didn't evolve "past" anything; nothing has evolved "past" us.

As humans, we have evolved to (hopefully) adapt best using our particular unique skills and resources. Other organisms are far better evolved than us for their particular needs.

again, you simply don't understand what you're talking about.

 

[Zorkorist]

And that's pretty much the whole argument in a nutshell. I simply can't fathom why anyone would want to have sex with a man.

Men can be and are, attracted to men.

That you can't see that is (obv) your problem.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

You obviously understand that women are attraced to men.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

If you arre a lesbian woman, I can understand your disdain for man.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Are you a lesbian woman?

-John

 

[zsdersw]

By that logic, sniffing someones ass when you meet them is perfectly natural, along with killing and eating your young, cannibalism and a host of other behavior that I would consider unsavory.

The issue of whether it's natural is separate from whether it's acceptable to someone. The point is that things don't have to be acceptable to you or to me to be real things that don't necessarily happen by choice. Their unacceptability to you or anyone else doesn't factually prove anything.

Back on the choice issue, if homosexuality isn't a choice, doesn't it have to be a disease or a birth defect? Is there another option?

I'm not sure what it is, to be honest. I don't really care, either. I'm perfectly willing to accept whatever label "normal" people want to apply. It doesn't affect me or my life whatsoever.

 

[Medellon]

At one point, calling homosexuality a lifestyle helped the homosexuals, by using the tolerance for 'lifestyle' to get sme acceptance of them - not putting them in jail.

But it was never accurate - it's not a lifestyle, and it's past time to not use the word for them, implying they just 'choose' the 'lifestyle'.

It's a civil rights issue, pure and simple, and what helps is informing people of the truth to combat the ignorance and myths that underly and perpetuate bigotry.

Speaking from personal experience no doubt.

 

[Moonbeam]

3 dudes, 1 stall?

Lucky Pierre

 

[MJinZ]

The issue of whether it's natural is separate from whether it's acceptable to someone. The point is that things don't have to be acceptable to you or to me to be real things that don't necessarily happen by choice. Their unacceptability to you or anyone else doesn't factually prove anything.



I'm not sure what it is, to be honest. I don't really care, either. I'm perfectly willing to accept whatever label "normal" people want to apply. It doesn't affect me or my life whatsoever.

If everyone else calls you mentally diseased, sorry but you'll be living in the insane asylum.

Wrong attitude.

 

[Fern]

The "Gay Lifestyle" Myth

There are many myths.

IMO, Hollywood is responsible for perpetrating an awful lot of them.

There have been quite a few gay characters in movies and TV shows. I don't pretend to know how they were all portrayed as I don't watch many TV shows or see many movies, but I suggest complaints regarding myths about 'gay lifestyle' be directed at them.

 

[MJinZ]

There are many myths.

IMO, Hollywood is responsible for perpetrating an awful lot of them.

There have been quite a few gay characters in movies and TV shows. I don't pretend to know how they were all portrayed as I don't watch many TV shows or see many movies, but I suggest complaints regarding myths about 'gay lifestyle' be directed at them.

I think the problem is that you wouldn't be able to tell who is or isn't gay on Hollywood productions if they didn't go over the top.

Unless you're doing a movie Brokeback style.

If you think about it, besides the main characters in a movie, do we care at all what the sexuality of the supporting characters are? We just assume they are straight, and no one gives a crap.

 

[zsdersw]

If everyone else calls you mentally diseased, sorry but you'll be living in the insane asylum.

Wrong attitude.

Not at all. If I'm "mentally diseased", everyone is.

I'm not saying I treat all labels from all people like the insignificant bullshit such labels usually are, but posters on an Internet forum don't exactly have the power to haul me or anyone else off to be "reprogrammed".

 

[zsdersw]

There are many myths.

IMO, Hollywood is responsible for perpetrating an awful lot of them.

There have been quite a few gay characters in movies and TV shows. I don't pretend to know how they were all portrayed as I don't watch many TV shows or see many movies, but I suggest complaints regarding myths about 'gay lifestyle' be directed at them.

Hollywood doesn't generally do things that aren't popular or that aren't likely to be (with the exception of independent filmmakers, etc.). At the most, Hollywood is only partly to blame. The consumers of what they generate have a share of the blame too.

 

[classy]

God said the Jews could have slaves so slavery is sanctioned by the Bible and perfectly OK.

God said Gayness is bad so Gays have to suffer. They are going to hell so it's our job to make their lives hell on earth. We do this because we love God.

Maybe Gay people should be slaves. Just thinking out loud. But it's nice to know the Bible is on my side. It makes me pretty fucking important. High fives, God!

The bible lays out what things are sin. We don't get to pick and choose. Jesus reconciled all things in his death and resurrection. So all sin is forgiven, regardless of what it is through Christ Jesus. There is only one sin that is unforgiveable, but it would take hundreds of words to explain it, homosexuality though is not that sin, neither is murder. We go to hell because of one sin and only one sin, that is unbelief in Jesus. Once a person accepts Christ, their human spirit is born again, actually it is regenerated once again alive to God the Father.

The sins and penalties for sin are all forgiven through Jesus' death on the cross. Man is no longer bound to punish sin as in the old covenant, example stoning somene for adultery. But even though our sins are forgiven, we have a part to play in that we have to turn away from those things that are sin. Whether it be adultery, homosexuality, stealing, violence, and etc. We gather the strength to resist those sins in Christ through reading the bible, gathering with other believers like going to church, and prayer. A lot of prayer. People blame God, misquote the bible, and never read it which causes people to believe things that are not true.

Now if you think God doesn't exist or you don't believe something is wrong, then that is your decision. I can't defend some of the outlandish behavior of folks who do things in the name of God. But blaming him for what someone else does is pretty stupid. I am no more responsible for the actions of my grown daughter, then God is for mine.

 

[MJinZ]

Not at all. If I'm "mentally diseased", everyone is.

I'm not saying I treat all labels from all people like the insignificant bullshit such labels usually are, but posters on an Internet forum don't exactly have the power to haul me or anyone else off to be "reprogrammed".

Posters on internet forums are just people in real life. And yes, people do have that power to brainwash each other and create laws to do so.

Like it or not, gay people have a lot to thank for the outspoken members who work actively for gay rights.

 

[MJinZ]

The bible lays out what things are sin. We don't get to pick and choose. Jesus reconciled all things in his death and resurrection. So all sin is forgiven, regardless of what it is through Christ Jesus. There is only one sin that is unforgiveable, but it would take hundreds of words to explain it, homosexuality though is not that sin, neither is murder. We go to hell because of one sin and only one sin, that is unbelief in Jesus. Once a person accepts Christ, their human spirit is born again, actually it is regenerated once again alive to God the Father.

The sins and penalties for sin are all forgiven through Jesus' death on the cross. Man is no longer bound to punish sin as in the old covenant, example stoning somene for adultery. But even though our sins are forgiven, we have a part to play in that we have to turn away from those things that are sin. Whether it be adultery, homosexuality, stealing, violence, and etc. We gather the strength to resist those sins in Christ through reading the bible, gathering with other believers like going to church, and prayer. A lot of prayer. People blame God, misquote the bible, and never read it which causes people to believe things that are not true.

Now if you think God doesn't exist or you don't believe something is wrong, then that is your decision. I can't defend some of the outlandish behavior of folks who do things in the name of God. But blaming him for what someone else does is pretty stupid. I am no more responsible for the actions of my grown daughter, then God is for mine.

Ah the sweet sound of washing of human grey matter in the morning.

Yea, you are responsible for your "grown" daughter if you brought her up to be a psychopath.

The stupidity of the "blah blah blahs" of your type is also God's responsibility, especially if he caused such a thing via his teachings.

 

[Moonbeam]

The bible lays out what things are sin. We don't get to pick and choose. Jesus reconciled all things in his death and resurrection. So all sin is forgiven, regardless of what it is through Christ Jesus. There is only one sin that is unforgiveable, but it would take hundreds of words to explain it, homosexuality though is not that sin, neither is murder. We go to hell because of one sin and only one sin, that is unbelief in Jesus. Once a person accepts Christ, their human spirit is born again, actually it is regenerated once again alive to God the Father.

The sins and penalties for sin are all forgiven through Jesus' death on the cross. Man is no longer bound to punish sin as in the old covenant, example stoning somene for adultery. But even though our sins are forgiven, we have a part to play in that we have to turn away from those things that are sin. Whether it be adultery, homosexuality, stealing, violence, and etc. We gather the strength to resist those sins in Christ through reading the bible, gathering with other believers like going to church, and prayer. A lot of prayer. People blame God, misquote the bible, and never read it which causes people to believe things that are not true.

Now if you think God doesn't exist or you don't believe something is wrong, then that is your decision. I can't defend some of the outlandish behavior of folks who do things in the name of God. But blaming him for what someone else does is pretty stupid. I am no more responsible for the actions of my grown daughter, then God is for mine.

As there is only one sin that is unforgivable, so too is there only one truth and one true religion, and not only that but there are millions of these one and only truths and millions of potential wars to fight to defend them.

You believe in one of these millions of only truths and what you see is your only truth. I see millions of others like you and yet not like you and I laugh. But I did hear about a Buddhist sect somewhere or other who said that their religion might not be the only religion or the only truth, but it was their religion. Imagine that.

So you will forgive me if I pay no attention to your one and only truth as I have been exposed to thousands of them all my life and the chances you of all the multitudes I've been exposed to and the millions I have not just happened to actually have the one and only real truth is as vanishingly small as anything that I can imagine. What you are absolutely certain is the one and only truth, I don't believe at all. The one thing I did pick up from religion is the value of humility. I know nothing and you know everything and there we are. Which is the more likely. So my religion boils down to this. I seem to be the only one who knows he knows nothing and because of that one truth I know everything there is to know. My God is the black board and not the crap people write on it.

On the positive side, I believe your religious belief gives you a lot of inner peace and that's good. It's better than negative self hate. It's just sad to me that your not a liberal in your belief and can't feel that a God who creates gays would make gay love a sin that needs to be forgiven. It's just such fanatical nonsense that killed my interest in the Christian God.

I can't believe that a pair bond imperative in humans and other social animals that sometimes expresses as sexual interest in the same sex could possibly be unnatural and evil. Sorry, I can't deny what is obvious to be a conforming submitting member of an absurd faith. If there is a God why the fuck would he give me a brain and then do stuff that's obviously stupid.