The governments roll in controlling poverty

[Texashiker]

There is an interesting article on motherjones about cuts in welfare leaving families in poverty

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/10/welfare-reform-cbpp-deep-poverty

A new report from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) looks at cash benefits provided under the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program, commonly known as "welfare." It finds that the value of monthly cash benefits that make up the fragile safety net for the poorest families with children has continued to decline steadily since the program was "reformed" in 1996.

Is it the governments job to provide a permanent safety net?

If someone is unable to work, then yes, let society provide for that person.

But if someone is down on their luck, or is using welfare as a way of life, should that family be provided with benefits that do not have a time limit?

Another factor is wages have been declining since the 1980s, maybe even since the 1970s. Since the 1990s wages have been pretty much stagnated with inflation.

Doesn't it make sense that welfare, just like all other forms of income has become stagnated?

Why should society care more about people on welfare than working class families who are barely getting by?

Whether it is someone on welfare, or a working class family, is it the governments job to keep that family above the poverty level?

 

[dank69]

rolls go with bbq

 

[Anarchist420]

Is it the governments job to provide a permanent safety net?

no.

If someone is unable to work, then yes, let society provide for that person.

i dont want the govt helping me out if my parents' savings run out and i never have a job.

in fact, i want to die if i have to live on govt welfare and i also want to know how many people truly care about helping me from their own heart. i imagine that it is getting more and more difficult to receive private charity but that is largely because the govt is spending so much.

i also understand the fact that some people who cant help themselves also cant enjoy life without the salary of a DC bureaucrat, but that doesnt mean that people should be forced to pay for it. in fact, no one should be forced to pay for anything unless theyve taken someone else's property or life.

perhaps all govt employees should leave the country and set up a monarchy somewhere else if they want so much uniformity and loot from others. every single president has been illegitimate for fucks sake.

 

[2timer]

Do you think the government would give me free butter for my rolls?

 

[DominionSeraph]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S_7KGJfuvY

 

[nehalem256]

It finds that the value of monthly cash benefits that make up the fragile safety net for the poorest families with children has continued to decline steadily since the program was "reformed" in 1996.

Back then, benefits weren't exactly generous, but they did manage to keep a whole lot of kids out of really deep poverty. Today, those benefits are almost nonexistent. The lucky few who are able to get cash assistance aren't getting enough to pay rent or keep the lights on in most states, and the value of the benefits has declined precipitously since 1996—even more so since the recession started. According to CBPP, there is not a state in the country whose welfare benefits are enough to lift a poor single mother with two kids above 50 percent of the poverty line, or about $9700 a year. I

Isn't it funny that the "families" that have problems always have something in common?

 

[unokitty]

Isn't it funny that the "families" that have problems always have something in common?

"Families" that aren't at the poverty level share certain traits as well...

Uno

 

[Anarchist420]

mother jones makes themselves look dumb by thinking they can fool so many people with their bullshit.

anyway, ssdi and ssi are available for anyone who applies and medicaid will be soon too. then those people can get food stamps.

and the biggest factor in the kids not having enough is not just compulsory education but compulsory education until they're 16. child labor legislation needs to be lifted like a son of bitch since ron paul was successful and worked when he was a child.

i can only conclude that being forced to go to school does not teach the kids a damn bit of responsibility. and you either know how to read and spell or you dont.

 

[Orignal Earl]

One of the things I really like about reddit, is that these crazy welfare myths are quickly shown to be false.
Actual social workers step in and post real numbers and reasons and end the debate.
I read p&n for years here for years and believed anyone could just sit on welfare forever and make a decent living at it in the US

 

[Incorruptible]

Government tends to create a lot more poverty. These welfare programs tend to keep people on welfare and make them dependent on the government. Combine this with pushing people to go on welfare and the government just creates more poverty.

 

[rudder]

One of the things I really like about reddit, is that these crazy welfare myths are quickly shown to be false.
Actual social workers step in and post real numbers and reasons and end the debate.
I read p&n for years here for years and believed anyone could just sit on welfare forever and make a decent living at it in the US

What welfare myths? In many places getting a plethora of welfare benefits is better than holding a job... plus this money is not taxed. Any good links with data?

 

[Orignal Earl]

What welfare myths? In many places getting a plethora of welfare benefits is better than holding a job... plus this money is not taxed. Any good links with data?

You go first.
If Texas wanted actual debate, he would of posted this in discussion
Show me at least one of these plethora of places.
Show me how many jobs are nearby, how these people can get to said jobs.
Show me the paperwork these people have to fill out each month.
Show me the money

 

[Jhhnn]

What welfare myths? In many places getting a plethora of welfare benefits is better than holding a job... plus this money is not taxed. Any good links with data?

Gawd that's lame. You make a naked assertion of fact in the same breath you demand links to a position that makes no such assertions. Orignal Earl merely points out that our resident asshats make insupportable statements as if they were fact, whereupon you validate his claim.

Nice work!

 

[shira]

mother jones makes themselves look dumb by thinking they can fool so many people with their bullshit.

anyway, ssdi and ssi are available for anyone who applies and medicaid will be soon too. then those people can get food stamps.

and the biggest factor in the kids not having enough is not just compulsory education but compulsory education until they're 16. child labor legislation needs to be lifted like a son of bitch since ron paul was successful and worked when he was a child.

i can only conclude that being forced to go to school does not teach the kids a damn bit of responsibility. and you either know how to read and spell or you dont.

"I know of of one American who worked as a child and became a successful politician. Therefore there cannot be any valid reason to retain laws against child labor in the U.S."


"I know of one person who dropped out of high school and became a billionaire. Therefore there cannot be a valid reason to discourage children from dropping out of high school."

 

[shadow9d9]

If the government gave out more rolls, we would have less poverty.

 

[Nebor]

You go first.
If Texas wanted actual debate, he would of posted this in discussion
Show me at least one of these plethora of places.
Show me how many jobs are nearby, how these people can get to said jobs.
Show me the paperwork these people have to fill out each month.
Show me the money

I could only find 35 places.

 

[drebo]

I would not have such a problem with welfare and associated programs if it did not provide its recipients with direct cash and had stiff penalties (i.e. jail time and lifetime loss of benefits) for "selling" the benefits for cash.

EBT is so rife with abuse it's not even funny. If someone can't pay their rent, they should get a voucher or live in government housing. If they can't pay for groceries, they should be given food. Giving them money is just an altogether terrible idea. There should also be restrictions on allowing welfare recipients to have more children.

And, except in cases of actual physical/mental disability, it should never, ever be permanent.

If the US populace just exercised a little fucking common sense and less emotional bullshit, far fewer people would be in poverty.

 

[piasabird]

Single people are not married and have no real families. i.e. there are a lot of single parents living off the government. A 2 parent family has 2 wage earners. That gives real families a safety net and it raises their family income level. Single people earn more money, but they have no responsibilities and pay more taxes because of it. On the other hand families of 4-6 pay a lot less in taxes.

 

[Zaap]

I could only find 35 places.

Hawaii, which offers $60,590 in annual welfare benefits, once you account for the fact that welfare benefits are tax-free to the recipient, compared to work-related wages. That’s the equivalent of $29.13 an hour.

HOLY BATSHIT, BATMAN!

Maui, here I come.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure $30 an hour isn't much in Hawaii, but I think I could live an adequate beach-bum lifestyle on that.

 

[Jhhnn]

I could only find 35 places.

Well, yeh, except that even the authors of the cited study admit that reality differs from their hypothetical projections, which are just that, projections-

Critics of Cato’s 1995 study pointed out, correctly, that not all welfare recipients actually receive all the benefits to which they are entitled. That is particularly true of housing benefits, as we have discussed above. Similar arguments can be made regarding utilities assistance, WIC, and free commodities. Still, with the exception of housing in states with less than a 10 percent participation rate, we believe it is proper to include the full package of benefits in our calculations because at least some recipients in every state do receive them. Moreover, the likelihood of receiving those additional benefits is primarily a function of the length of a family’s stay on welfare. That means that hard-core welfare recipients, who spend long periods on welfare, are likely to be receiving those benefits.
Still, since not every observer will agree with our approach, we offer Table 16, which shows the value of a welfare benefits package that includes only those benefits received by nearly all welfare recipients: TANF, SNAP, and Medicaid. Even with this limited array of benefits, welfare exceeds the value of a minimum-wage job in eight states.

page 43-

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/the_work_versus_welfare_trade-off_2013_wp.pdf

There's more hedging along the way, as well.

What the usual ravers fail to recognize is that welfare payments prevent economic collapse in some areas, like Mississippi, where ~40% of the state budget is federal money, occurring at twice the level of their tax contribution to federal coffers.

 

[Jhhnn]

HOLY BATSHIT, BATMAN!

Maui, here I come.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure $30 an hour isn't much in Hawaii, but I think I could live an adequate beach-bum lifestyle on that.

You won't collect anywhere near that much w/o dependent children, and you'll likely do more work to get it than actually having a job.

 

[boomerang]

Do you think the government would give me free butter for my rolls?

Yes they will. But it's of the utmost importance that you be aware that the government cannot give anything to anybody that it doesn't first take from somebody else.

Today, you may be on the receiving end. But what about tomorrow?

 

[OverVolt]

role*

In Chile they had a huge welfare state and 50% poverty. When they dismantled the welfare, the poverty rate dropped.

How Milton Friedman Saved Chile

Inflation topped out at an annual rate of 1000%, foreign-currency reserves were totally depleted, and per capita GDP was roughly that of Peru and well below Argentina's.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703411304575093572032665414

Even before the 1973 coup, several of Chile's "Chicago Boys" had drafted a set of policy proposals which amounted to an off-the-shelf recipe for economic liberalization: sharp reductions to government spending and the money supply; privatization of state-owned companies; the elimination of obstacles to free enterprise and foreign investment, and so on.

Result: Chileans have become South America's richest people. They have the continent's lowest level of corruption, the lowest infant-mortality rate, and the lowest number of people living below the poverty line.

Yup.

 

[Spungo]

We should create some kind of government mandated insurance. For as long as you have a job, you pay into this insurance. If you suddenly lose your job, you can collect this insurance. Why has nobody ever thought of this?

Welfare is designed for people who simply do not work. It's not an insurance plan, and it probably hurts society more than it helps. I'm a strong supporter of homeless shelters and soup kitchens, but welfare seems to trap people. In a lot of cases, welfare pays more than minimum wage, so there's no reason to get off welfare. No sane person would go from working 0 hours per week to 40 hours per week (or 29 hours per week due to Obamacare) and get absolutely no income increase.

If the government was in the business of helping people, it would provide free day care for everyone in the country while removing welfare. This would knock down the #1 barrier that stops people from being able to work - children. Giving the service to everyone ensures that people don't feel like they are getting fucked by the system because poor people get free stuff but middle class people don't.
Government housing projects should probably be ended as well. We've tried that experiment for decades and it fails every time. The projects always turn into crime fortresses. Go to youtube and search for a "Cabrini Green" documentary. It's a project in Chicago that is only marginally safer than Liberia or Congo.

 

[Incorruptible]

HOLY BATSHIT, BATMAN!

Maui, here I come.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure $30 an hour isn't much in Hawaii, but I think I could live an adequate beach-bum lifestyle on that.

This is the problem with these idiotic welfare programs. Why get a job and work when they can just leech off the government.