The GPU Vendor Bias Admission Thread

[MrTeal]

Sure, just like majority of smartphone users can't afford iPhones or the vast majority of GPU consumers can't afford 980 tis.

The point isn't that the LG OLEDs are the only TV that anyone can buy, the point is that if you are buying a Tv and you really care about picture quality the LG OLED is in a category by itself when it comes to quality. Much like the iPhone or the 980 ti.

There is always room in the market for people who don't care as much and just want a moving picture screen to keep the kids happy. That doesn't change what the high-end is.



Sales-wise, no they aren't dominating because of the cost. The "cheap" 1080p OLED is twice what a 4K LED of the same size can cost.

If we are talking about product quality via picture quality, I would argue that right now the LG OLED dominates the TV market more than any other product line dominates any other market in technology. The measurable picture quality (as defined by the most important metric of contrast ratio) is magnitudes better than anything else on the market. If the LG OLED was a CPU it would be a 6700K and all the LED tvs would be AMD Turions. If the LG was a GPU it would be a 980 ti and all the LED tvs would be GT 210s. OLED technology makes a huge huge difference.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the picture quality, just on your choice of analogy. The LG OLED is in a class by itself, but that class is still niche due to the cost. The TV market as a whole is still quite varied, and there's options of different manufacturers throughout most price brackets. Unlike LED vs OLED, the vast majority of people in the CPU sector are choosing Intel. If the TV market were the CPU market, LG would be selling 4k and 1080p LEDs and OLEDs, while the other brands were limited to cheap 720p Plasma sets the heat up your whole room.

 

[xthetenth]

I hope that everyone that said they lean AMD on this thread actually goes out and buys the high end 14nm cards due out, or even better buy 2 mid range for crossfire. AMD needs the money in the price points with the high margins to continue to stay competitive in this market. Radeon's being cheaper than Nvidia taking market share for razor thin margins isn't a strategy that will last long term as long as the market perceives their product as inferior.

I've budgeted for the next to the top Polaris, and if it's midrange I'll set up a deal with a friend to flip it to them for a good price when big Polaris drops. I just want a good Freesync ultrawide for a reasonable price to go with it.

It is the same as Bugatti. They make some of the fastest and most powerful cars on the market, but they don't dominate the market. Hyundai sells more cars than Bugatti, for instance. Doesn't mean that anyone would rather have a Hyundai, just means that having a high end halo product does not mean you dominate the rest of the market. It just means you own that segment of the market, nothing more, nothing less.

What's the trunk and maintenance like on the Bugatti? If you gave me one I'd flip it in a heartbeat.

 

[poofyhairguy]

LG is not dominating the market as a result.

OLED TVs can't dominate the overall TV market. They only come in a few sizes that doesn't meet all of the market needs and they have a limited availability because of production limits. With that said, LG sells every OLED they make and their market share is projected to grow:

Doesn't mean that anyone would rather have a Hyundai, just means that having a high end halo product does not mean you dominate the rest of the market. It just means you own that segment of the market, nothing more, nothing less.

That isn't true at all. Halo products are called that for a reason. Halo products shape market perception about the lower-end products under the same brand name.

Nvidia's halo product of the 980 ti gives them a boost across all product categories because consumers see the headlines and misunderstand what it means when they say "Nvidia is the fastest." Nissan makes the GT-R, a blanent halo product, to make its sedans seem cooler in comparison. It happens all the time that a halo product means more than "owning a market segment."

LG is the same way. They are very blatant about saying that they make the OLED TVs to get good reviews that they hope will help convince regular people to buy their LED TVs (which are garbage even for LEDs). They not only dominate their segment, they dominate the mindshare of reviewers in the industry which then carries over to all segments.

It is getting very obvious that other TV makers are getting tired of how their products get measured against the LG OLED time and time again.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

I've budgeted for the next to the top Polaris, and if it's midrange I'll set up a deal with a friend to flip it to them for a good price when big Polaris drops. I just want a good Freesync ultrawide for a reasonable price to go with it.

:thumbsup: I think you and I are in the same boat here, I really want my 980ti to get replaced with the top end AMD and get into either a Freesync or HDR monitor. In a perfect world I could have both maybe with DP 1.3 at 1440 maybe I'm just dreaming...

I really think a Fury level $300-$350 card at ~140w would fly off the shelves if AMD get first to market.

 

[Goatsecks]

:thumbsup: I think you and I are in the same boat here, I really want my 980ti to get replaced with the top end AMD and get into either a Freesync or HDR monitor. In a perfect world I could have both maybe with DP 1.3 at 1440 maybe I'm just dreaming...

I really think a Fury level $300-$350 card at ~140w would fly off the shelves if AMD get first to market.

I suspect whoever gets next gen out first are going to enjoy themselves a spot of price gouging.

 

[xthetenth]

I suspect whoever gets next gen out first are going to enjoy themselves a spot of price gouging.

I do too and I reserve the right to hold off till NV releases their cards if applicable.

 

[Goatsecks]

I do too and I reserve the right to hold off till NV releases their cards if applicable.

It will always be worth holding off for whoever is the slowest to release, annoyingly.

 

[Spjut]

Kepler falling off a cliff relative to gcn is long term support to you?

Which might just be due to Kepler's architectural weaknesses compared to GCN becoming more apparent in modern games


Look at Nvidia's support for both its DX9 and DX10 GPUs however, they've been supported for much longer than AMD's and also support newer Windows.
And for the DX11/12 cards, Nvidia still supports Vista whereas AMD dropped Vista support at the end of 2013.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Which might just be due to Kepler's architectural weaknesses compared to GCN becoming more apparent in modern games


Look at Nvidia's support for both its DX9 and DX10 GPUs however, they've been supported for much longer than AMD's and also support newer Windows.
And for the DX11/12 cards, Nvidia still supports Vista whereas AMD dropped Vista support at the end of 2013.

I'm not sure I've ever kept a GPU long enough for this to ever be a concern to me. I do however remember owning a HD5900 and having to deal with that nightmare - no driver installed, stable. Driver installed, the card would downclock to the point of being unstable and windows would hang.

 

[Qwertilot]

I really think a Fury level $300-$350 card at ~140w would fly off the shelves if AMD get first to market.

No, they need more than that at 140w to make a huge splash. The 980 is similar performance and is only 165w. NV would have to slash the price of course, but they've accumulated huge scope to do that for a few months if they have to.

If they could get it down to ~100w or something it could make a real difference.

They might, and could really do with being close to it, as can't see anything reason to think that Pascal won't manage it.

 

[Bacon1]

Which might just be due to Kepler's architectural weaknesses compared to GCN becoming more apparent in modern games


Look at Nvidia's support for both its DX9 and DX10 GPUs however, they've been supported for much longer than AMD's and also support newer Windows.
And for the DX11/12 cards, Nvidia still supports Vista whereas AMD dropped Vista support at the end of 2013.

Sorry, which Cards does AMD not support and which does Nvidia support for longer?

http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/legacy?product=legacy3&os=Windows 10 - 64

 

[tential]

I voted AMD.

However, I've only bought AMD once (290 MSI x-fire) since I first started purchasing cards (64MB GeForce2 GTS). I had a Nvidia bias for a long time and I feel kind of dumb for not purchasing more AMD cards. I believed the crap about Nvidia having better drivers etc. The only reason I gave AMD a try was because I was getting sick of Nvidia's overpriced gpu's and the way they were conducting their business (970). I'm definitely going AMD Polaris this time around. Likely two high end cards this time around.

Don't mean to put you on the spot but you prove my point. You're not a new member, but this is your first post and you explain why you chose AMD. Many people who don't post or post very little voted in these polls.....

 

[Spjut]

Sorry, which Cards does AMD not support and which does Nvidia support for longer?

http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/legacy?product=legacy3&os=Windows%2010%20-%2064

It's not hard to look for yourself
DX9 generation:
Geforce 6 and 7 (2004 and 2005): Last driver in february 2015, official Windows 8.0 support
AMD Radeon 9800 to x1900 series: Last driver in February 2010, no official support for Win7 or later

DX10 generation:
Geforce 8 to 200 supported until April 2016, official Windows 10 support and WDDM 1.2 driver
Radeon HD 2000-4000 moved to bug fixes only in 2012 and only WDDM 1.1, then dropped completely in october 2013. No catalyst control center for the Win 8.1/10 driver, actually making those series lose functionality in 8.1 and 10. And the dropping of these cards were done when many games were still 360 ports and could be played adequately at those cards.

Then you have the DX11 generation, where Geforce 400/500 still are supported and recently got a WDDM 2.0 driver, whereas HD 5000 and 6000 recently got dropped. And no new Vista driver for any DX11 GPU since December 2013.

 

[Spjut]

I'm not sure I've ever kept a GPU long enough for this to ever be a concern to me. I do however remember owning a HD5900 and having to deal with that nightmare - no driver installed, stable. Driver installed, the card would downclock to the point of being unstable and windows would hang.

I usually hand my older cards down to relatives and having Nvidia's long-term driver support simply make them superior to AMD's older cards

 

[Bacon1]

whereas HD 5000 and 6000 recently got dropped

Did you not look at my link? Its a driver from 2/29/2016 for those cards.

Also did you bother to read the release notes for those "Geforce 8 to 200 supported until April 2016" drivers? They haven't updating anything except security settings for its own .sys files and that was back in 2015.

Not to mention, do you expect games to work with those cards?

 

[Snarf Snarf]

No, they need more than that at 140w to make a huge splash. The 980 is similar performance and is only 165w. NV would have to slash the price of course, but they've accumulated huge scope to do that for a few months if they have to.

If they could get it down to ~100w or something it could make a real difference.

They might, and could really do with being close to it, as can't see anything reason to think that Pascal won't manage it.

I think I forgot to put the X at the end of Fury there :sneaky: If they get Fury X performance at 100w I'll be absolutely floored. I do see where you're coming from though because in order to get the GTX 960 and 970 owners to switch they would need that level of performance without having to upgrade PSU's. Lots of people out in the wild drop 960's and 970's into pre-builts with semi decent PSU's so it's very important that AMD can fill that power envelope.

 

[boozzer]

I think I forgot to put the X at the end of Fury there :sneaky: If they get Fury X performance at 100w I'll be absolutely floored. I do see where you're coming from though because in order to get the GTX 960 and 970 owners to switch they would need that level of performance without having to upgrade PSU's. Lots of people out in the wild drop 960's and 970's into pre-builts with semi decent PSU's so it's very important that AMD can fill that power envelope.

this has always boggled my mind. spends 300$+ on a gpu every 1 to 2 years but completely neglects the psu when it can be used for 2-3+ builds. especially when quality 650w to 750w regularly go on sale for 60-75 dollars. now that I think about it, it is :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

 

[Spjut]

Did you not look at my link? Its a driver from 2/29/2016 for those cards.

Also did you bother to read the release notes for those "Geforce 8 to 200 supported until April 2016" drivers? They haven't updating anything except security settings for its own .sys files and that was back in 2015.

Not to mention, do you expect games to work with those cards?

If you would have bothered to read the link, you'd have noticed there are no further driver updates planned for them

Nvidia has updated Sli profiles for their Legacy cards, as well as adding official Windows 10 support

And yes, even in 2016, there are games that are playable on those cards. There were more new games that could be played than there were that could not back in 2013 when AMD completely dropped support for its equivalents.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

this has always boggled my mind. spends 300$+ on a gpu every 1 to 2 years but completely neglects the psu when it can be used for 2-3+ builds. especially when quality 650w to 750w regularly go on sale for 60-75 dollars. now that I think about it, it is :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

I completely agree, buy a quality PSU once and keep using it for 3-4 builds. There is a group of people (college and high school gamers without parents money) that may ONLY have $350 to spend as a hard cap. There's actually quite a lot of those, I meet them almost daily when they come to our shop to browse GPU's. A lot of these customers have a pre-built machine that was gifted for college with decent enough components (i5's, 8GB, 600W PSU) that want the absolute best GPU that fits into that system without any mods. These are the ones that buy the GTX 960 and GTX 970 in droves, AMD needs to steal these customers from NVidia.

 

[Qwertilot]

I think I forgot to put the X at the end of Fury there :sneaky: If they get Fury X performance at 100w I'll be absolutely floored. I do see where you're coming from though because in order to get the GTX 960 and 970 owners to switch they would need that level of performance without having to upgrade PSU's. Lots of people out in the wild drop 960's and 970's into pre-builts with semi decent PSU's so it's very important that AMD can fill that power envelope.

Fair enough

There's definitely going to be quite a big - very big as the generation goes on I'd think - niche for a 'medium TDP/4k (VR) capable' sort of card. Basically what I'm after, although penguin fan so it'll have to be NV.

The raw performance should be there around 140w, will the Vram/bandwidth?

I've got modest hope - it it genuinely going to be quite hard to upsell anything faster than ~970 levels to people using 1080p monitors, so they might well optimise for higher res.

 

[tential]

I completely agree, buy a quality PSU once and keep using it for 3-4 builds. There is a group of people (college and high school gamers without parents money) that may ONLY have $350 to spend as a hard cap. There's actually quite a lot of those, I meet them almost daily when they come to our shop to browse GPU's. A lot of these customers have a pre-built machine that was gifted for college with decent enough components (i5's, 8GB, 600W PSU) that want the absolute best GPU that fits into that system without any mods. These are the ones that buy the GTX 960 and GTX 970 in droves, AMD needs to steal these customers from NVidia.

You do realize that a 600W PSU is good enough for AMD and Nvidia GPUs right?

Maybe a prebuilt system with a 400W PSU has some hard limits....

 

[Osjur]

Hmm, I voted unbiased even though I know that my posting habit most likely looks like that I'm biased towards AMD.

But when I look at my gpu purchasing history, I see that I have bought 11 nvidia cards and 12 amd cards for my main rig so I'd say I am unbiased. Though lately my cards have been AMD but that is because they have been a lot cheaper compared to Nvidia, at least in my country. For ex. 290X CF + EK waterblocks was cheaper than 780 Ti SLI without the blocks when I bought them. Mining craze didn't really affect the prices in northern europe that much.

My current card being Fury X maybe looks like that I'm completely biased towards AMD because why the hell would someone buy Fury X over custom 980 Ti, but because it is the only chip, apart from Tonga which support hardware PLP Eyefinity, it kinda became the only choice. Hell, I even ditched that 290X CF setup for single Fury X because of that feature.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

You do realize that a 600W PSU is good enough for AMD and Nvidia GPUs right?

Maybe a prebuilt system with a 400W PSU has some hard limits....

The "ish" part in decent'ish was to imply its not always 600w (more often then not its less), most of us on this forum know that 600 is enough for most single cards if its made by a quality company.

This whole hypothetical is also in the context of consumers who would read the box requirements of 700w for an R9 390 and take it as gospel

 

[railven]

The "ish" part in decent'ish was to imply its not always 600w (more often then not its less), most of us on this forum know that 600 is enough for most single cards if its made by a quality company.

This whole hypothetical is also in the context of consumers who would read the box requirements of 700w for an R9 390 and take it as gospel

I've had to assure lots of friends that their Seasonic/Corsair/Antec 500W PSU would be enough for their rig when they were shopping for some AMD cards.

For some reason AMD/AMD_Partners always listed something stupid like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150761&cm_re=R9_380X-_-14-150-761-_-Product

System Requirements
Minimum Power Supply Requirement: 500W
XFX Recommended Power Supply: XFX 650W PSU

 

[Silverforce11]

These polls arent worth much IMO because the most blatantly biased are also the most likely to flatout deny any bias, despite that obviously not being the case

That's weird, since there's already many who posted about being anti-NV due to their shady business practices. We aren't hiding our bias man. Nothing to hide, this isn't paid shilling for most, it's just a fun and distracting past-time, while we're (I) supposed to be working.