The Hackintosh 101 Thread

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: KeypoX

thanks man, I will keep an eye out, are you gonna post on anandtech or insanelymac?

It'll be on InsanelyMac, but I'll post it here. My Network Card should arrive by Wednesday too, so I'll test that to make sure it can read Bonjour stuff and wake from sleep properly.

 

[mshan]

Does Core Audio work properly on Hackintoshes?

I just bought an Apogee Duet for headphone and stereo listening, hopefully via a Hackintosh rather than true Mac Mini.

(Apogee Duet connection is via firewire).

 

[Zaap]

Here's a thread over at Insanely Mac on audio interfaces- someone there is using an Apogee just fine, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of info.

I'd guess that the best way to be sure it'll work is get the most vanilla install possible (most like a real Mac, not a hacked kernel) and follow what others using the same hardware have done.

 

[Kaido]

Leopard on the MSI Wind:

http://forum.insanelymac.com/i...?showtopic=113018&st=0

They just need to get the resolution and wireless working - everything else is supported OOB. Boy, I can't wait for the dual-core Atoms

 

[Kaido]

Wow hot:

http://forum.insanelymac.com/i...?showtopic=113288&st=0

Retail DVD installer is almost perfect! Cya EFI-X :laugh:

 

[Zaap]

Wow, it just keeps on getting easier and better!

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Zaap
Wow, it just keeps on getting easier and better!

My friend tried it and was successfully able to install from a Retail disc, which is extremely good news. He says it's not ready for prime time yet, but it looks like they are making good progress. Exciting!

 

[DW in UT]

A general question about Hackintoshing. Is there any need to adjust settings to keep the software from automatically looking for or accepting updates from Apple or other software?

Which settings are the important ones to adjust, or is there add-on software to keep things from "phoning home", if that is an issue?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: DW in UT
A general question about Hackintoshing. Is there any need to adjust settings to keep the software from automatically looking for or accepting updates from Apple or other software?

Which settings are the important ones to adjust, or is there add-on software to keep things from "phoning home", if that is an issue?

Go into System Preferences and disable automatic updates. That's about it for the general system.

Aside from that, I would recommend Little Snitch. It's not necessary for general use, but it's ideal for blocking program access to the Internet. It's basically a firewall with Zonealarm-style rules - allow/deny etc.

 

[scootermaster]

So it seems like the general process is getting easier, but that compatibility is still an issue (?). I for one would rather have it the other way around; have all the features working (sound, sleep, video, whatever) but maybe it takes a little longer to get going.

Is that a fair estimation?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
So it seems like the general process is getting easier, but that compatibility is still an issue (?). I for one would rather have it the other way around; have all the features working (sound, sleep, video, whatever) but maybe it takes a little longer to get going.

Is that a fair estimation?

It completely depends on your hardware; that is why choosing a compatible motherboard and video card is so very important. My Gigabyte DS3L is pretty much 100% compatible - sleep works, restart works, shutdown works, onboard audio works, yada yada yada. There's only a handful of boards that work that well...once you get beyond that, it starts getting away from Apple-compatible hardware and you start losing compatibility.

EFI-X and Boot-132 both look extremely processing, but neither are currently available or mature enough for general use. With Kalyway's installer disc it's pretty easy, provided you follow a proven guide and get the right parts. Hackintosh will always be a hobbyist sort of endeavor because Apple keeps changing the software and kernels, so every few updates requires a new set of hacks to get working properly. It's not for someone who wants a set-and-forget box, unless they are happy with the current release of software and don't plan on upgrading.

So yes - you can get compatibility with a little research. And it is getting easier

 

[Zaap]

I see 'compatibility' as a very minor issue at this point. If you choose the right hardware, and spend just a modest amount of time following a good guide to set everything up, then everything works.


Once you've set up a system a time or two (I've created 6 Hackintoshes from scratch now, and installed on 2 laptops, and 3 pre-built (AMD) desktops) what you need to do becomes fairly routine. On my most recent build, using a Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, it took me 20 minutes from build, to fully working 10.5.3 install that screams. Everything works, all system components, add on cards -that can't even even be used with a real Mac other than the MacPro- sleep/shutdown/restart every application that'll run on any Mac- all work. I didn't even open the terminal ONCE! I didn't myself touch a single kext file.

This week, I'm doing a new Windows based PC build, and I purposefully picked an ECS board that I have no idea right off if it's Hackintosh-compatible or not, just to see if I can also get a dual boot OSX install on it without having a clue if it's been done before on that board or not. A board I know is supported no longer presents even the slightest challenge, and that's no exaggeration. About the only issue that's cropped up for me recently to spend more than 5 minutes figuring out, has been the '45nm bug' using Wolfdale and Yorkfield processors with OSX. Even that took maybe 10 minutes of reading other people's guides to straighten out. The same will be the case for anyone that just gets used to the set of rules a 'Hackintosh' has.

To put things in perspective, with my last build, installing Windows XP 64-bit was BY FAR, vastly more of a challenge than OSX on the same hardware! And that's not to say installing XP x64 was all that hard, just OSX was that easy. Finding all the x64 drivers was much more of a PITA than anything on the OSX side! (Especially Microsoft HD audio). On the OSX side, everything just worked OOB. Even the graphic card merely required a small change in the apple.Boot.plist to enable full QE/CI, and that's it. (At this point, even NVinject and other tools like that are largely unnecessary so long as you use supported cards).

With Hackintosh builds, you simply have to change your thinking slightly about what is the 'norm' as far as platform rules. The machines are perfectly stable so long as you play by the rules. If you login as root and go screwing about with the terminal like a nutcase, you can easily screw up a real Mac or a Linux system. Likewise, go installing core system updates straight from Apple willy-nilly on a Hackintosh and you'll screw it up. But learn and follow the new set of rules, and you'll have a stable, 100% perfectly working machine.

 

[Excelsior]

To put things in perspective, with my last build, installing Windows XP 64-bit was BY FAR, vastly more of a challenge than OSX on the same hardware! And that's not to say installing XP x64 was all that hard, just OSX was that easy. Finding all the x64 drivers was much more of a PITA than anything on the OSX side! (Especially Microsoft HD audio). On the OSX side, everything just worked OOB. Even the graphic card merely required a small change in the apple.Boot.plist to enable full QE/CI, and that's it. (At this point, even NVinject and other tools like that are largely unnecessary so long as you use supported cards).

Thats more or less because XP x64 is a joke compared to Vista x64.

 

[Zaap]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Thats more or less because XP x64 is a joke compared to Vista x64.

Just curious, how so? I'm not the biggest windows fan, but I find XP-64 to be the most polished turd of the bunch. I'm not all that impressed with any version of Vista so far. XP x64 is pretty much rock stable in my use, and very fast.

Anyway, I just find it highly ironic that installing ANY version of Windows on PC hardware can actually be more difficult, and generally takes a lot longer than installing Mac OSX on PC hardware, and yet exactly that has been my experience. Even things like AHCI support- OSX supports it OOB, Windows chokes and dies on it without hardware/driver support.

For that matter, Linux can be trickier too. I had to find Nvidia graphic drivers for a PCLinuxOS install on the same hardware as XP x64, and OSX. Try a dual monitor, non-mirrored setup between Linux and OSX sometime. OSX: it's already done, OOB. Linux: talk about an adventure in mucking around editing obscure system files!

Of all three, I spent the least time fiddling with or setting up OSX to have it fully working, which is just ironic since OSX is the 'hack' OS on this hardware. I have little doubt the same would be true for Vista had I put that on the same machine.

 

[fyleow]

..

 

[Zaap]

I've done a stock Leopard install, and it's a bit more difficult, but not vastly so. And drivers aren't any more of an issue once you know what a certain board needs. It's also a tad overrated, but that's another issue. Like I said, it wasn't that XP 64 was all that "difficult", just surprising that it does take longer to set up, track down specific drivers, and get running than OSX. A slipstreamed Windows version could certainly be made for my setup and specific drivers, but there wouldn't be a "one disk for all hardware combos" the way Kalaway and Leo4All cover the spectrum for OSx86 compatibility, but that's of course mostly due to Windows supporting such a vastly larger array of hardware.

It's only relevant in that there's some uncertainty about the viability of OSX on a PC, but I'm just pointing out that, in fact, so much has been figured out already that now it's not any more difficult or more troublesome, nor does it even take as long (with supported hardware) as installing versions of Windows or Linux.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Zaap
I see 'compatibility' as a very minor issue at this point. If you choose the right hardware, and spend just a modest amount of time following a good guide to set everything up, then everything works.


Once you've set up a system a time or two (I've created 6 Hackintoshes from scratch now, and installed on 2 laptops, and 3 pre-built (AMD) desktops) what you need to do becomes fairly routine. On my most recent build, using a Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, it took me 20 minutes from build, to fully working 10.5.3 install that screams. Everything works, all system components, add on cards -that can't even even be used with a real Mac other than the MacPro- sleep/shutdown/restart every application that'll run on any Mac- all work. I didn't even open the terminal ONCE! I didn't myself touch a single kext file.

This week, I'm doing a new Windows based PC build, and I purposefully picked an ECS board that I have no idea right off if it's Hackintosh-compatible or not, just to see if I can also get a dual boot OSX install on it without having a clue if it's been done before on that board or not. A board I know is supported no longer presents even the slightest challenge, and that's no exaggeration. About the only issue that's cropped up for me recently to spend more than 5 minutes figuring out, has been the '45nm bug' using Wolfdale and Yorkfield processors with OSX. Even that took maybe 10 minutes of reading other people's guides to straighten out. The same will be the case for anyone that just gets used to the set of rules a 'Hackintosh' has.

To put things in perspective, with my last build, installing Windows XP 64-bit was BY FAR, vastly more of a challenge than OSX on the same hardware! And that's not to say installing XP x64 was all that hard, just OSX was that easy. Finding all the x64 drivers was much more of a PITA than anything on the OSX side! (Especially Microsoft HD audio). On the OSX side, everything just worked OOB. Even the graphic card merely required a small change in the apple.Boot.plist to enable full QE/CI, and that's it. (At this point, even NVinject and other tools like that are largely unnecessary so long as you use supported cards).

With Hackintosh builds, you simply have to change your thinking slightly about what is the 'norm' as far as platform rules. The machines are perfectly stable so long as you play by the rules. If you login as root and go screwing about with the terminal like a nutcase, you can easily screw up a real Mac or a Linux system. Likewise, go installing core system updates straight from Apple willy-nilly on a Hackintosh and you'll screw it up. But learn and follow the new set of rules, and you'll have a stable, 100% perfectly working machine.

That's it exactly. It's just like Windows - screw around with installing it enough and you'll learn the ins and outs of the game and it will be no sweat. You just have to do it a few times, like anything else - practice makes perfect. Glad to hear things are going well for you!

 

[Zaap]

Thanks, Kaido.

How's your DS3 system going? Also, I'm just curious, what do you mainly use your systems for? Any critical work?

To break this thing in under real-world conditions, I took the G31M-based machine in to my work this week (a major studio here in LA), un-hooked my work MacPro single-proc (KVM +Network) and did my entire week's workload (Final Cut editing) with the Hackintosh. It's performed flawlessly- in fact, it comfortably outperforms my work machine. Not the slightest hint of instability. I hate to make it sound like these things are a panacea- but my experience has more than surpassed all my expectations. I'm going to hate giving this machine up once I deliver the Hack to the person I built it for.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Zaap
Thanks, Kaido.

How's your DS3 system going? Also, I'm just curious, what do you mainly use your systems for? Any critical work?

To break this thing in under real-world conditions, I took the G31M-based machine in to my work this week (a major studio here in LA), un-hooked my work MacPro single-proc (KVM +Network) and did my entire week's workload (Final Cut editing) with the Hackintosh. It's performed flawlessly- in fact, it comfortably outperforms my work machine. Not the slightest hint of instability. I hate to make it sound like these things are a panacea- but my experience has more than surpassed all my expectations. I'm going to hate giving this machine up once I deliver the Hack to the person I built it for.

Yeah, side-by-side, the Core 2 Quad actually beats a Xeon. Here's my system on Geekbench:

http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/68106

Here's the Mac Performance Chart for June:

http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog...performance-june-2008/

And a results comparison:

• Mac Pro, Intel Xeon 5160 3.0 GHz (4 cores) = 5521
  Hackintosh, Intel QQ660 overclocked to 3.0 GHz (4 cores) = 6040

My cobbled-together system beat the professional machine by 500 points! Yowza!

My friend built a dual-processor hack using a Tyan S2696 board and it screams too - it's 100% compatible plus he got to choose each and every single part that went into it. Can't beat that with a stick

 

[slugg]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Zaap
Thanks, Kaido.

How's your DS3 system going? Also, I'm just curious, what do you mainly use your systems for? Any critical work?

To break this thing in under real-world conditions, I took the G31M-based machine in to my work this week (a major studio here in LA), un-hooked my work MacPro single-proc (KVM +Network) and did my entire week's workload (Final Cut editing) with the Hackintosh. It's performed flawlessly- in fact, it comfortably outperforms my work machine. Not the slightest hint of instability. I hate to make it sound like these things are a panacea- but my experience has more than surpassed all my expectations. I'm going to hate giving this machine up once I deliver the Hack to the person I built it for.

Yeah, side-by-side, the Core 2 Quad actually beats a Xeon. Here's my system on Geekbench:

http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/68106

Here's the Mac Performance Chart for June:

http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog...performance-june-2008/

And a results comparison:

• Mac Pro, Intel Xeon 5160 3.0 GHz (4 cores) = 5521
  Hackintosh, Intel QQ660 overclocked to 3.0 GHz (4 cores) = 6040

My cobbled-together system beat the professional machine by 500 points! Yowza!

My friend built a dual-processor hack using a Tyan S2696 board and it screams too - it's 100% compatible plus he got to choose each and every single part that went into it. Can't beat that with a stick ;

Yea? Tell you friend to bring his Uber-Hackintosh over here, I'll show you what happens when I beat it with a stick... And they say Macs don't break down....

 

[Zaap]

Kaido and others,
What's your take on the recent news that Apple is finally suing Psystar?

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think Psystar set themselves up from the start for a royal beat-down by Apple. They've been less than honest using both Apple's product and the work of various OSx86 hackers for their own profit. I say this from the standpoint of being 100% for consumers building their own Mac clones so long as it's possible, but not actual companies setting up shop marketing them.

Even if Apple can't beat Psystar 100% on legal grounds, they can probably stomp them into dust just by tying them up with their far greater legal muscle.

On the other hand, I somewhat admire Psystar. Agree or disagree with what they've done, but the fact is, they made the fact that you can install OSX on a standard PC public knowledge for millions more people than knew that was possible before.

In my case, I knew it was possible before, but I never seriously considered looking into making a Hackintosh before Psystar came along and I realized that it had to be more viable than I had previously thought, if someone was actually marketing a mHack. That's the point I started looking into it seriously, and found out it was doable. So really, I have Psystar in large part to thank for the awesome Hackintoshes I've since built, and now use as regular tools.

I think they helped expose Apple's weakness in the mid-range PC market- again, agree or disagree that there should be a midrange Mac market in the first place, but Psystar certainly helped prove there is tremendous demand and interest in one.

If Apple were to somehow lose this one, then the flood gates of every Tom, Dick and Larry trying to market their own commercial Hacks could open- with obvious mixed results. (One reason I think Apple will spend any amount to crush Pystar and anyone else thinking of doing the same in their tracks). But one thing on the positive of that scenario is it would force Apple into the midrange market just to crush the 'inferior' competition- which would be a huge win for consumers. I'm a big believer in competition always being better for consumers.

But I don't think Apple will lose their case, so all that is probably moot anyway. I just hope that at the very least, more and more people are made aware of the possibilities of OSx86 by whatever fallout all this will kick up.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Anyone know if the Nvidia GF8200 chipset is compatible? What about the integrated video?

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Argh, I gave this another shot and almost had success this weekend.

Using IP35-E, I patched the DVD to overcome the Darwin bootloader bug with the IDE controller, installed Leo, got the sound and lan working after some work, but hit the wall with my x1800xt after I installed Natit and now the OS wont boot correctly. I'm a noob with the command line and I can't even change directories correctly to delete Natit, so this going to take a while, but I don't think the x1800xt is gonna do it. Such a shame because I thought I almost had it.

EDIT: Nevermind, got the driver installed using this method. Seems to work great, posting from OS X now.

 

[dartworth]

What is currently the best hardware setup for a hackintosh?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: dartworth
What is currently the best hardware setup for a hackintosh?

Single-processor: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L + Compatible Video Card
Dual-processor: Tyan S2696WA2NRF + Compatible Video Card

Both work 100% under Leopard. The majority of the hardware components are compatible out the door (hard drives, DVD drives, processors, memory, etc.). The biggest thing you will want to research is the video card. NVidia cards have excellent compatibility, although 512mb cards seem to have issues. I've used a 256mb 7300GT, a 256mb 7900GT, a 320mb 8800GTS, and a 768mb 8800GTX (modded into a Quadro FX 5600) successfully. Get the right motherboard and video card and it's all downhill from there!

Here is the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L guide:

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=112708

Here is the Tyan S2696WA2NRF guide:

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=83229

I'm running 10.5.4 with the latest updates and the Vanilla kernel on my Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L board and it runs real nice. I have Final Cut Pro, iLife, iMovie, Office 2008, and other apps all working extremely well. I'm quite happy with it :thumbsup: