The importance of Boy Scouts

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: spidey07

I doubt my or any other parents can ingrain the values that scouts have given me.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. I'm not saying that the scouts weren't benificial to you, but good parents are perfectly able to instill good values in their kids. In fact, a good parent should be able to do it better than any organization. I know my own parents did very well, and I was never in the scouts.

Well, you can't gain that self-reliance that one learns while being a member of a large group organization where all the children dress just alike and quote the same memorized speeches over and over again.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NFS4
You just don't get it. **Sigh**

Then explain it to us, the many of us, who do not "get it".

How do I explain a concept to someone that doesn't seem willing to accept the benefit of scouting?

I learned about first aid, plants, animals and how to use them to my advantage in the wilderness. I learned about survival skills and how to find my way when lost/seperated from my party. I learned about tieing sp? knots, wood carving, astronomy, learned to become a better swimmer, learned about fire safety, etc. etc. I could go on and on.

In my time in scouts I earned 68 merit badge and achieved Brotherhood in the Order of the Arrow.

My parents were middle-classed folks and they tried to provide the best for me. Even so, they wouldn't have been able to afford all of the trips by themselves that I went on with my Boy Scout Troop (which used funds that the scouts raised to pay for most of the trips and equipment).

We did:

White Water Rafting
Skiing
Repelling
Rock Climbing
Canoeing
Mountain Biking
Numerous hiking and camping trips
Visited historical sites (battlefields, warships, etc)

And it also tought me about self awareness, respect for myself and others, respect for mother nature and one KEY aspect: TEAMWORK.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: spidey07

I doubt my or any other parents can ingrain the values that scouts have given me.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. I'm not saying that the scouts weren't benificial to you, but good parents are perfectly able to instill good values in their kids. In fact, a good parent should be able to do it better than any organization. I know my own parents did very well, and I was never in the scouts.

You have a very good and correct point. I need to revise my statement to be "the experience and knowledge that scouts have given me." I'd be sorely mistaken if I didn't believe parents cannot instill good values in thier children. I mispoke.

We went through triage, exercises, mock scenarios that cannot be replicated at home.

Does that make sense?

 

[BeauJangles]

Did they also ingrain homophobia in you? I could never send my future children into an organization that actively descriminates against a group of people.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Did they also ingrain homophobia in you? I could never send my future children into an organization that actively descriminates against a group of people.

They also promote faith in God. Is that a problem for you as well?

Was never really an issue for me, our troop didn't have any homosexuals in it. And I don't remember there being a section in the Scout manual about bashing gays

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Did they also ingrain homophobia in you? I could never send my future children into an organization that actively descriminates against a group of people.

Not at all.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Did they also ingrain homophobia in you? I could never send my future children into an organization that actively descriminates against a group of people.

They also promote faith in God. Is that a problem for you as well?

Was never really an issue for me, our troop didn't have any homosexuals in it. And I don't remember there being a section in the Scout manual about bashing gays

For me, promoting faith in God isn't a problem. But bashing gays *is* a huge deal. Around here, it seems that the #1 activity for those in the scouts is to bash gays. That's pretty much the *only* reason I dislike the Boy Scouts.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Did they also ingrain homophobia in you? I could never send my future children into an organization that actively descriminates against a group of people.

They also promote faith in God. Is that a problem for you as well?

Was never really an issue for me, our troop didn't have any homosexuals in it. And I don't remember there being a section in the Scout manual about bashing gays

For me, promoting faith in God isn't a problem. But bashing gays *is* a huge deal. Around here, it seems that the #1 activity for those in the scouts is to bash gays. That's pretty much the *only* reason I dislike the Boy Scouts.

Gay bashing? WTH? Are they up on soap boxes preaching against gays? It doesn't really make sense at all.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Gay bashing? WTH? Are they up on soap boxes preaching against gays? It doesn't really make sense at all.

It's not so much that they run around wearing their uniforms, holding rallies... it's more that the same people that participate in the scouts go to a particular church that is well known for bashing gays, driving them out of town. Those that aren't in the scouts generally aren't as fierce and homophobic as those that are.

Then, of course, there was the time that one of the most respected scout leaders stood up in front of a congregation at church, gathering a round of applause when he publicly made fun of several gay men that had been chased away from the church, and that he would do everything he could to make sure that "the queers" never came around again.

Yeah. I've not been back to that church again, nor have I spoken with anyone that participates in scouts in that area.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Did they also ingrain homophobia in you? I could never send my future children into an organization that actively descriminates against a group of people.

They also promote faith in God. Is that a problem for you as well?

Was never really an issue for me, our troop didn't have any homosexuals in it. And I don't remember there being a section in the Scout manual about bashing gays

For me, promoting faith in God isn't a problem. But bashing gays *is* a huge deal. Around here, it seems that the #1 activity for those in the scouts is to bash gays. That's pretty much the *only* reason I dislike the Boy Scouts.

Gay bashing? WTH? Are they up on soap boxes preaching against gays? It doesn't really make sense at all.

some of us just prefer not to lend support to an organization that contains bigotry ok? sure there are plenty of other good parts, but bigotry is so poisonous that is nullifies the rest, and one cannot justify supporting and strengthening such a group until they change. now imagine if they were racists instead of homophobes, but otherwise everything else about them was good. would that be good enough?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Did they also ingrain homophobia in you? I could never send my future children into an organization that actively descriminates against a group of people.

They also promote faith in God. Is that a problem for you as well?

Was never really an issue for me, our troop didn't have any homosexuals in it. And I don't remember there being a section in the Scout manual about bashing gays

For me, promoting faith in God isn't a problem. But bashing gays *is* a huge deal. Around here, it seems that the #1 activity for those in the scouts is to bash gays. That's pretty much the *only* reason I dislike the Boy Scouts.

Gay bashing? WTH? Are they up on soap boxes preaching against gays? It doesn't really make sense at all.

some of us just prefer not to lend support to an organization that contains bigotry ok? sure there are plenty of other good parts, but bigotry is so poisonous that is nullifies the rest, and one cannot justify supporting and strengthening such a group until they change. now imagine if they were racists instead of homophobes, but otherwise everything else about them was good. would that be good enough?

The Boy Scouts of America is based around a faith in God. Every church I have been to looks down on homosexuals and sees it as a sin against God (although that's not my personal position), yet no church I have ever been to looks down on others because of their race.

So if you look at the Boy Scouts as an extension of the religious institution that it ties with (my Boy Scout troop was sponsored through my church), I guess you could apply your distate for their policies to the respective church it is affiliated with.

I don't agree with every thing that my pastor preaches, but then again, I don't agree with everything that any pastor preaches. My GF's pastor is STRONGLY against homosexuals and believes that a woman should stay at home and take care of the house/kids while the man works...and if you have both parents working that you're doing wrong in the sight of God.

 

[0roo0roo]

well currently there aren't really any. but in the past many in the south did justify racism with religion. and well not that religion is a valid excuse for bigotry anyways. racism in church has become unacceptable. the same should go for homophobia. until the boyscouts become tolerant its just a deal killer for many people. childrens groups that go on camping trips and such are nothing new after all, just look at germany under hitler, they had plenty of hitler youth camps that promoted many good things. team work, leadership skills, survival, appreciation of the wilderness etc. and well we all know what else they had. so the good doesn't over come the bad in such things.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well currently there aren't really any. but in the past many in the south did justify racism with religion. and well not that religion is a valid excuse for bigotry anyways. racism in church has become unacceptable. the same should go for homophobia. until the boyscouts become tolerant its just a deal killer for many people. childrens groups that go on camping trips and such are nothing new after all, just look at germany under hitler, they had plenty of hitler youth camps that promoted many good things. team work, leadership skills, survival, appreciation of the wilderness etc. and well we all know what else they had. so the good doesn't over come the bad in such things.

Wow, I think someone said it best on MSNBC last week. You know that your opponent has run out of meaningful things to say when the Hitler references come out

That being said, to tell you the truth, I really don't care what others think about the Boy Scouts or what they do. All I know is that I thought that it was beneficial to me as a youth and when I was going through the scouts NOT ONCE did the issue of race or homosexuality enter the equation.

The rest can do as you please. No skin off my nose.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: NFS4
The Boy Scouts of America is based around a faith in God. Every church I have been to looks down on homosexuals and sees it as a sin against God (although that's not my personal position), yet no church I have ever been to looks down on others because of their race.

So if you look at the Boy Scouts as an extension of the religious institution that it ties with (my Boy Scout troop was sponsored through my church), I guess you could apply your distate for their policies to the respective church it is affiliated with.

I don't agree with every thing that my pastor preaches, but then again, I don't agree with everything that any pastor preaches. My GF's pastor is STRONGLY against homosexuals and believes that a woman should stay at home and take care of the house/kids while the man works...and if you have both parents working that you're doing wrong in the sight of God.

The church I happened to mention previously is also unwelcoming to blacks and any other person that does not fit their "norm".

Furthermore, that church is remarkably accepting of gays, other than the men that are also in boy scouts. I can't associate it with the church so much as I can scouts, solely for that reason.

I'm don't support most churches, nor do I want to shut them down for their beliefs. I don't see them nearly as dangerous as boy scouts, though. <shrug>

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I'm don't support most churches, nor do I want to shut them down for their beliefs. I don't see them nearly as dangerous as boy scouts, though. <shrug>

The Boy Scouts of America is more powerful/dangerous than the CHURCH?????

Damn, that's a new one. Why haven't the political action committies tapped into this resource yet

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well currently there aren't really any. but in the past many in the south did justify racism with religion. and well not that religion is a valid excuse for bigotry anyways. racism in church has become unacceptable. the same should go for homophobia. until the boyscouts become tolerant its just a deal killer for many people. childrens groups that go on camping trips and such are nothing new after all, just look at germany under hitler, they had plenty of hitler youth camps that promoted many good things. team work, leadership skills, survival, appreciation of the wilderness etc. and well we all know what else they had. so the good doesn't over come the bad in such things.

Wow, I think someone said it best on MSNBC last week. You know that your opponent has run out of meaningful things to say when the Hitler references come out

That being said, to tell you the truth, I really don't care what others think about the Boy Scouts or what they do. All I know is that I thought that it was beneficial to me as a youth and when I was going through the scouts NOT ONCE did the issue of race or homosexuality enter the equation.

The rest can do as you please. No skin off my nose.

no, you can't trot out that internet "law", just look into the youth groups during that time and you can see they do have strong parallels. and their strong points did not make up for the evil involved. and it doesn't matter if your troop leader is specifically homophobic, many aren't. i never got a talk about homos in scouts ever. but the simple fact is there is no way to join without supporting the organization and its leadership which is clearly bigoted. there is no joining while flagging yourself as objecting to things. you join, you place yourself on their side and in effect bolster their position. as for being benificial, i think it would be more benificial to be morally/ethically consistent and teach children not to lend support to bigotry in any way. even if its personally no skin off their noses as its another group thats subject to rejection.

 

[Journer]

the thing that pissed me off about boy scouts is they get government funding. this is complete BS. what church or any religious group gets $$ to fund their organization?
i dont have a problem with them not allowing gays or whatever...its supposed to be a private org. BUT..since they get $$ from the US gov, it should be public and any citizens should be allowed in...
that said...i wouldve like to do something like boyscouts but i'm an agnostic-aetheist and they wouldnt let me join...oh well

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well currently there aren't really any. but in the past many in the south did justify racism with religion. and well not that religion is a valid excuse for bigotry anyways. racism in church has become unacceptable. the same should go for homophobia. until the boyscouts become tolerant its just a deal killer for many people. childrens groups that go on camping trips and such are nothing new after all, just look at germany under hitler, they had plenty of hitler youth camps that promoted many good things. team work, leadership skills, survival, appreciation of the wilderness etc. and well we all know what else they had. so the good doesn't over come the bad in such things.

Wow, I think someone said it best on MSNBC last week. You know that your opponent has run out of meaningful things to say when the Hitler references come out

That being said, to tell you the truth, I really don't care what others think about the Boy Scouts or what they do. All I know is that I thought that it was beneficial to me as a youth and when I was going through the scouts NOT ONCE did the issue of race or homosexuality enter the equation.

The rest can do as you please. No skin off my nose.

no, you can't trot out that internet "law", just look into the youth groups during that time and you can see they do have strong parallels. and their strong points did not make up for the evil involved. and it doesn't matter if your troop leader is specifically homophobic, many aren't. i never got a talk about homos in scouts ever. but the simple fact is there is no way to join without supporting the organization and its leadership which is clearly bigoted. there is no joining while flagging yourself as objecting to things. you join, you place yourself on their side and in effect bolster their position. as for being benificial, i think it would be more benificial to be morally/ethically consistent and teach children not to lend support to bigotry in any way.

We lend support to bigotry in many aspects of our life be it church, school or government. Democrats, Republicans, neither one of them is immune. Hell, parents here are fighting tooth and nail because of school redistricting here in Wake County. Parents are pissed that their summers get ruined b/c the school system wants to switch their kids to year-round schooling, yet the parents decide to fight back by not voting on a new bond that would provide millions of dollars to improve schools that are falling apart and have fault central air conditioning systems that are making students/teachers sick.

We can all say that we want to lead a moral and ethical life, but we all fall into the traps in everyday life.

 

[blackbishop26]

not all scout troops are sponsored by churches, dont lump every troop into the church/bigot category. i cant beleive that someone would actually make a hitler youth reference and comparisons of that to the boy scouts.

what i learned in the scouts is that everyone deserves the same amount of respect that one would expext to receive. that being said alot of scouts are called "girl scouts" or (and pardon this one) "i love you scouts" because it's just not considered the norm for groups of boys to spend so much time together. i knew several open homsexuals while i was in the scouts. i trusted them not to do anything towards them just as they trusted me to show them the same respect as i showed to anyone else.

what really gave the scouts a bad name is the actions of a few pedophiles who took their position of authority within the troop and used it to impose themselves on a group of impressionable young men while camping in the woods.

i highly doubt that anyone in my troop would have called anybody out on account of being gay. people need to stop being bigoted when they assume that just because one organization or another doesnt have a great deal of open love for homosexuals, that they hate them

 

[Orsorum]

Fellow Eagle Scout, 1999. I agree completely.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well currently there aren't really any. but in the past many in the south did justify racism with religion. and well not that religion is a valid excuse for bigotry anyways. racism in church has become unacceptable. the same should go for homophobia. until the boyscouts become tolerant its just a deal killer for many people. childrens groups that go on camping trips and such are nothing new after all, just look at germany under hitler, they had plenty of hitler youth camps that promoted many good things. team work, leadership skills, survival, appreciation of the wilderness etc. and well we all know what else they had. so the good doesn't over come the bad in such things.

Wow, I think someone said it best on MSNBC last week. You know that your opponent has run out of meaningful things to say when the Hitler references come out

That being said, to tell you the truth, I really don't care what others think about the Boy Scouts or what they do. All I know is that I thought that it was beneficial to me as a youth and when I was going through the scouts NOT ONCE did the issue of race or homosexuality enter the equation.

The rest can do as you please. No skin off my nose.

no, you can't trot out that internet "law", just look into the youth groups during that time and you can see they do have strong parallels. and their strong points did not make up for the evil involved. and it doesn't matter if your troop leader is specifically homophobic, many aren't. i never got a talk about homos in scouts ever. but the simple fact is there is no way to join without supporting the organization and its leadership which is clearly bigoted. there is no joining while flagging yourself as objecting to things. you join, you place yourself on their side and in effect bolster their position. as for being benificial, i think it would be more benificial to be morally/ethically consistent and teach children not to lend support to bigotry in any way. even if its personally no skin off their noses as its another group thats subject to rejection.

By the definitions of bigot at dictionary.com here you are a bigot because you have just as much intolerance for those that think being gay is wrong as they have for gays. Interesting.

 

[Turin39789]

Eagle Scout here too, May 05. My brother as well


That being said, I'm still not sure if my kids(if and when) are going in or not. I joined cub scouts in the second grade, and staid through my eagle and was a Junior assistant scoutmaster until I got out of high school. Venture scouts, Explorer post etc you name it.

Then again, I'm agnostic and support gay rights. I loved scouts to death, the times I spent at scouting events are some of my best memories of childhood. Thankfully my scout group wasn't as focused on religion as some troops. Heck I was chaplain for a while, but I was a teenager still trying to make up my own mind about my own beliefs.

I'm still mad to this day at the people who took my scouts and turned it into their scouts.

 

[Feldenak]

I was a Boy Scout and definately glad I was.

Started in Cub Scouts and earned my Arrow of Light, then moved up to Boy Scouts earning my Eagle. When I got to college, I joined Alpha Phi Omega (a Scouting based service fraternity).

 

[Demon-Xanth]

<-- got his Eagle rank in '96

If you dropped me anywhere in the mountains near my home (the Sierra Nevadas) I'm sure that within 2 days I'll be hitch hiking a ride home. Even if I have absolutely no equipment whatsoever.

 

[tbooth]

I went from tiger cubs -> star. I enjoyed the outdoors stuff alot more than earning ranks. I probably wouldn't have even gotten star if it wasn't required to go to Philmont. Some of the coolest places I've been to in my life were with scouts. I think the quality of the troop leaders has everything to do with how enjoyable scouts can be, and ours were great. I don't regret having been in scouts at all.