Discussion The Incel issue and ways to fix them.

[whm1974]

Well I've been reading about the Involuntary Cerebrate and how some folks have suggested that their problems could be solved by requiring sex workers to have sex with them. What I found to be really scary is that I come close to ending up as one.

I'm the guy who could not get a date in high school and my early 20's if his life depended on it. Due to this, I had violent fantasies of raping young women to punish them for refusing to have anything to with me. This start while high school and I am ashamed to say this but there have been several times where I have been temped to act on them.

Keep in mind I'm not a violent person and I have no actual desires to hurt people at all. Basically I more or less grew up and realize that women neither owe me relationships or sex. Or for matter, no women deserves to be raped. So what is preventing Incels from simply growing up and realizing that that their problem is them?

One possible way to help is suitable therapy, however they have to want to change first.

Thoughts?

 

[DrDoug]

Darn, I thought this was going to involve doctors and snipping...

Make prostitution legal and regulate the hell out of it to keep pimps and STDs at bay. Then the incels would have to get a job that allows them to afford sex when they desire it.

Like everyone else.

 

[Commodus]

A lot of it boils down to eliminating that sense of entitlement that still pervades a lot of male culture. You probably know what I mean: the boys-will-be-boys mindset, the "friend zone," the notion of promiscuous men as studs and women as whores, the belief that it's okay to tell women to "smile" out of the blue.

We spend so much time telling men that they're doing something wrong if they aren't 24/7 sex machines, and then wonder why the socially underdeveloped guys are resentful when they can't get a date. They aren't taught respect, so it's not shocking when they don't offer respect.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I mean the answer is easy they need a gf lol

 

[nickqt]

A dying dogshit culture just has to die out.

There is no "fixing" it.

 

[Grooveriding]

I have to believe the problem is much worse now because of the internet and social media. The pressure on young men to live up to the superficialities of the young male ideal is much higher. They have apps like Tinder to bombard them with constant rejection and remind them they are competing and losing.

There is the whole new internet meme culture of 'chads', 'being the alpha' etc. Then they have the internet to congregate on, amplify their anger and radicalize one another with.

Ironically, I think young men today are experiencing more societal pressure to live up to a physical ideal that was previously largely a pressure women dealt with. Social media has really shallowed out what heavy users of it place value on. Maybe that is old man yelling at the clouds talk, but so much of it is just meaningless bullshit and largely fake.

 

[Greenman]

In this case, hookers and blow really are the answer.

 

[whm1974]

Darn, I thought this was going to involve doctors and snipping...

Make prostitution legal and regulate the hell out of it to keep pimps and STDs at bay. Then the incels would have to get a job that allows them to afford sex when they desire it.

Like everyone else.

Back in HS nearly all the guys including me considered "you can only get some by paying for it" to be an insult. Never mind that I did exactly that at 18 during my senior year.

However it is not the lack of sex Incels are upset over, instead it is their inability to enter into relationships with women. Back then I simply wanted to go on dates and have a girlfriend.

Being rejected each and every time does have rather nasty effects on a persons personality and outlook. And to be honest I'm not sure that if had the opportunity and knew that I would have gotten away with doing so, I would have raped a girl back in HS.

 

[whm1974]

Ironically, I think young men today are experiencing more societal pressure to live up to a physical ideal that was previously largely a pressure women dealt with. Social media has really shallowed out what heavy users of it place value on. Maybe that is old man yelling at the clouds talk, but so much of it is just meaningless bullshit and largely fake.

Good thing for me that Social Media wasn't around during the early 90's. I possibly cound have ended up an Incel.

 

[soundforbjt]

Incels need to lower their expectations, they're not going to get a hot looking girl just because they want one. Go for the girls at their own level and they may get some where.

 

[whm1974]

I sure was told many times that my standards were set too high.

 

[DrDoug]

instead it is their inability to enter into relationships with women.

Which is centered around their inability to see women as people and just become friends with them when the opportunity presents itself. That's how I did it, as did many others that I grew up with. Another part of it is that some guys are not the best looking and yet they keep reaching for the ladies who have their pick of guys, which is another beef that they have (their perception that any woman can have sex any time she wants and poor them are sexually starving). One friend of mine from high school (back in the 70's) had the reaching for the stars problem. He finally got it figured out in his late 20's, married a woman, had a kid and is now a happy man. It can be done but as our daughter tells us, men today have no idea how to approach a woman without making some kind of sexual comment or observation about a part of her anatomy. Strikes 1, 2, and 3, all at once.

Our daughter follows We Hunted the Mammoth for the laughs, keeping me up to date on the latest incel nonsense on women.

 

[whm1974]

Well to be clear, back in HS and my early 20's I wouldn't have went anywhere near as far as the Incels are doing.

 

[DrDoug]

Well to be clear, back in HS and my early 20's I wouldn't have went anywhere near as far as the Incels are doing.

When it comes to women, just about everything they are doing is wrong. Women are not too difficult to figure out, not that there's really anything to figure out other than befriend one and you will meet many more. Quit trying to hook up with someone and just make some friends, that's all I really ever did. I didn't go to bars and parties looking to hook up with someone for that night (or longer), that wasn't my goal. I went out to make more friends who had friends that I met and became friends with, resulting in dates with people I never would have met had I not befriended another woman. Be nice, don't talk about sex or even joke about it, talk about shit they do and are interested in. It's called getting to know someone and having a good ear really pays off with the ladies (just never take sides when they are fighting! ).

I didn't have a father to teach me squat about women, I had to figure it out for myself. Luckily for me I have three sisters and they had lots of friends during our school years. I figured out real fast that the ladies are just people that you make friends with. If you play it cool and build a nice rep you might spark the interest of one of their friends. Women just want to know that the guy they are talking to is genuinely interested in them and what they say, and isn't standing there thinking of the various positions they would try if they could. IOW, men have to learn some tact, restraint and communication skills if they ever want a chance to get their whistle wet.

Talk to the not-babes and make some friends. They're great people and fun to party around with. Really. Sitting on their computers at home complaining about not being able to score is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Get out and meet people!

 

[local]

I was terrified of girls when I was in school but at the same time not being able to have a gf was tearing me up inside. I understand, to a point, the whole incel thing because I lived it until I was 20.

Once I had my drivers license I wound up being the designated school skipping transport, suddenly I was popular and actually had girls coming up to me to talk. Might as well have given me crack as school was pointless to me anymore and it was all about the next time I could get a girl to skip school with me again. Soon I was caught and got into deep shit so I stopped skipping and I thought they would all go away. That lead to me doing some really stupid stuff and getting expelled. I accidentally got a girlfriend a few months later and everything instantly got better, then worse, then better, then I was fine. I eventually figured out what I was doing about the same time someone locked my future wife and I in a car when I was 20.

I dealt with it in the 90's and I do believe that social media and the internet as a whole is exacerbating the issue. Not only because kids are bombarded with the "you suck, girls hate you" perception they build up but now they can also easily find others with the same mindset and feed off of each other, I believe that is when it can become dangerous.

The guys above that say you just have to make friends are right, it really is easy. I just wish I could go back and teach my young self that lesson.

 

[pmv]

Maybe somehow change the cultural trope that treats male and female as some sort of radically-different type of being. I've always thought the very concept of 'friendzone' was a bit weird (I don't remember it even existing as a concept when I was young). I don't think it's just about sex and sexual frustration, it seems to me it's also about a failure to acknowledge that both sexes struggle with very similar problems.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Maybe somehow change the cultural trope that treats male and female as some sort of radically-different type of being. I've always thought the very concept of 'friendzone' was a bit weird (I don't remember it even existing as a concept when I was young). I don't think it's just about sex and sexual frustration, it seems to me it's also about a failure to acknowledge that both sexes struggle with very similar problems.

I think that it's a failure to recognize that women are human beings.

 

[pmv]

I think that it's a failure to recognize that women are human beings.

Well, that's a less-conciliatory way of putting it. I just think it's a continuum with a cultural trait that goes way beyond the hard-core incel types.

 

[mikeymikec]

I think this thread deserves a

 

[cytg111]

Army. Draft the fuckers.

 

[whm1974]

Army. Draft the fuckers.

I highly doubt that many Incels are actually mental and/or physically fit for service.

 

[cytg111]

I highly doubt that many Incels are actually mental and/or physically fit for service.

It will be a "special" program.
At the end of the day we have to break them to build something better from the ground up.

I am not almost not serious.

 

[whm1974]

It will be a "special" program.
At the end of the day we have to break them to build something better from the ground up.

I am not almost not serious.

Unfortunately most of those guys would not pass Boot Camp.

 

[cytg111]

Unfortunately most of those guys would not pass Boot Camp.

Again "special program" ... you dont need boot camp to break people.

 

[pmv]

Army. Draft the fuckers.

Yeah, it's not as if soldiers ever commit rape. Especially conscripts. They are famously well behaved and respectful towards women.