The Intel Atom Thread

[cbn]

the J1900 its a little too expensive to do the same with the Sempron 3850.

I think with the new Asrock Q1900M I listed in the previous post Intel has something price competitive to Sempron 3850.

Just keep in mind the Bay Trail-D come with SATA 3 Gbps ports compared to the Kabini 6 Gbps ports. The PCI-E x16 on the Asrock Bay Trail-D is only x1 electrically compared to the Kabini's PCI-E x16 (x4 electrically).

As far as CPU scores go:

Sempron 3850 gets 1842 cpu marks --> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Sempron+3850+APU+with+Radeon+R3&id=2209

J1900 gets 2046 cpu marks ---> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+J1900+@+1.99GHz&id=2131

P.S. I am a little surprised by how high that Sempron 3850 cpu mark score is. Need more benchmarks.

 

[cbn]

Another Bay Trail-D to hit retail (the 7th board AFAIK):

ASRock Q1900B-ITX ($74.99 plus $4.99 shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157497

Very noteworthy is the ability to use standard voltage SO-DIMMs.

(All the other Bay Trail-D motherboards with the exception of the two Asrock Micro-ATX booards in post # 2550 use DDR3L SO-DIMM)

 

[frozentundra123456]

I work in research, and this week just toured a clinical lab in Chicago. They have such state of the art analytical equipment, but I was just amazed at how outdated their computers were. Nearly all the workstations were running small form factor Pentium 4 boxes to process data from the analytical equipment. Probably running XP as well, although of course I could not see that. Perhaps they were running some proprietary data handling software.

Anyway, this kind of use would seem an ideal use case for small nettops using Bay Trail or kabini.

 

[Sweepr]

Now thats competitiveness, $149 quad-core Bay Trail-T based Android 4.4 tablet from ASUS launching soon:

The world's No. 3 tablet vendor, Asustek (OTC:AKCPF), will soon launch a $149 tablet with the new 64-bit quad core Intel (INTC) Atom Z3745 SoC. The Asus ME176 7-inch tablet will feature the 1.33 GHz quad-core Atom Z3745 and will run Android 4.4 KitKat. It will reportedly come with 1GB of RAM, 8GB of internal storage, and an IPS wide-viewing angle display.

Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 (based on a slower Snapdragon 400 - quad-core ARM A7) will cost $199. Very agressive pricing from ASUS.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/216...tom-z3745-chip-will-compete-with-galaxy-tab-4

Dell expands Venue 11 Pro tablet family with a $430 model

http://liliputing.com/2014/04/dell-expands-venue-11-pro-tablet-family-with-a-430-model.html

Acer A1-840 FHD : Android tablet with Bay Trail CPU, full HD display

Earlier this year Acer introduced a cheap Android tablet called the Iconia A1-830 with a 7.9 inch screen, an Intel Atom Clover Trail+ dual-core processor, and a starting price of $149.

Now it looks like Acer is getting ready to turbocharge its Android tablet lineup with new models featuring faster Intel Atom Bay Trail quad-core chips. Specs for a budget model called the Acer A1-840 leaked recently. It looks like a higher-end model with a more memory and a higher-resolution display is also in the works.

The tablet reportedly has a 7.9 inch, 1920 x 1200 pixel display, an Intel Atom Z3745 quad-core CPU, 2GB of RAM, and about 16GB of storage (with 10GB available to users).

It runs Android 4.4.2 KitKat software, has a 5MP rear camera with flash and auto-focus, and a 2MP front-facing camera. Other features include WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS, and an ambient light sensor.

http://liliputing.com/2014/04/acer-a1-840-fhd-android-tablet-bay-trail-cpu-full-hd-display.html
http://gfxbench.com/device.jsp?benchmark=gfx30&os=Android&api=gl&D=Acer+A1-840+FHD&testgroup=overall

Z3745 scores ~20 FPS @ T-Rex Offscreen. Thats not bad at all considering Snapdragon 800 based LG D838 G Pro 2 tablet scores 22.5 FPS. It seems like slight clockspeed bumps and drivers improvements helped Bay Trail over the last few months. Now lets take a look at Snapdragon 400, that will probably power lots of <$199 tablets (similar price point to rumoured Z3745-based 7'' tablets): ~5.5 FPS. Great performance from the cheap Bay Trail Android parts.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, if it is running android, who cares really. Android "is what it is". If you want a cheap android tablet, there are plenty of those already. The main advantage of Bay Trail to me is that you can run windows on it. I dont really know if Bay Trail offers enough advantage in price (without "contra revenue"), battery life or performance to distinguish itself from ARM except for the ability to run windows. Personally, I have used an android tablet for quite a while now, and if I ever can justify another tablet purchase, I will not even consider android. It will be either windows or IoS.

 

[blackened23]

I disagree with you. While windows has its place, for a mobile device on the go, legacy x86 means nothing to me. Android apps have far more usability for touch for basic tasks such as email, browsing, netflix, youtube, so on and so forth.

Don't get me wrong, I like windows and windows has a place. I also find BT windows tablets interesting. Honestly though, I far prefer android or iOS for tablet form factors. The applications for mobile operating systems are better designed for................mobile. Period. IMO. I don't really care about legacy software that is largely "half a$$" in terms of mobile development. There are a few exceptions, but by and large, actual mobile operating systems do the mobile touch thing better. Using an ipad for a year or so really underscored that fact for me; I used windows on a tablet and it just felt like the apps weren't suited for the form factor.

I mean if I wanted to use netflix on an 8 inch tablet. Using netflix in a browser window in windows 8.1 on a tablet is just LOL. It isn't even comparable to the iOS ipad app, the latter is just far better and more intuitive to use. While the windows 8.1 version is just a pain in the neck. Having to touch on super small icons that aren't even a proper fit for the resolution. With iOS , everything is designed for the device. That's the difference. Windows apps aren't designed for the device. They're designed for everything. That means they're good on desktop and SUCK for mobile tablet form factors. Or they're good for mobile tablet but SUCK for desktop.

Now if you're sitting around the house and have a spare keyboard to hook up, maybe the windows tablet is great. For someone on the go, android is better for mobile. IMHO. So is iOS - it is better than android (for tablet form factors, anyway). Now, like I said, I like Windows but there are just some things it does worse as a "mobile" operating system. The legacy x86 stuff is a crutch really. The legacy x86 stuff means that software works on everything and is a jack of all form factor trades, master of none. Whereas with iOS everything is designed specifically with the ipad in mind. Sorry, but apps designed with the form factor in mind will always be hands down superior to an application designed for "everything". That's my take on it. So i'll use windows on ultrabooks, laptops with touchpads and keyboards. But for a keyboardless and touchpadless tablet? Screw that. iOS and android are just better for those form factors.

So, basically, I see android for BT as being a good thing. Windows has its place. It is the best desktop operating system. The compatibly for "everything" makes it half baked for most actual touch driven applications, however. And when you're using an 8 inch tablet on the "go". Without a keyboard or touchpad. Screw windows. I'll take android anyday since android/iOS apps are better suited.

 

[Shivansps]

Also i think that dual booting will be possible, just not stock.

 

[tential]

I'm sure intel is happy getting some design wins no matter how small. They still need to get BayTrail into a major flagship tablet release though. Maybe we'll see that with CherryTrail.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I disagree with you. While windows has its place, for a mobile device on the go, legacy x86 means nothing to me. Android apps have far more usability for touch for basic tasks such as email, browsing, netflix, youtube, so on and so forth.

Don't get me wrong, I like windows and windows has a place. I also find BT windows tablets interesting. Honestly though, I far prefer android or iOS for tablet form factors. The applications for mobile operating systems are better designed for................mobile. Period. IMO. I don't really care about legacy software that is largely "half a$$" in terms of mobile development. There are a few exceptions, but by and large, actual mobile operating systems do the mobile touch thing better. Using an ipad for a year or so really underscored that fact for me; I used windows on a tablet and it just felt like the apps weren't suited for the form factor.

I mean if I wanted to use netflix on an 8 inch tablet. Using netflix in a browser window in windows 8.1 on a tablet is just LOL. It isn't even comparable to the iOS ipad app, the latter is just far better and more intuitive to use. While the windows 8.1 version is just a pain in the neck. Having to touch on super small icons that aren't even a proper fit for the resolution. With iOS , everything is designed for the device. That's the difference. Windows apps aren't designed for the device. They're designed for everything. That means they're good on desktop and SUCK for mobile tablet form factors. Or they're good for mobile tablet but SUCK for desktop.

Now if you're sitting around the house and have a spare keyboard to hook up, maybe the windows tablet is great. For someone on the go, android is better for mobile. IMHO. So is iOS - it is better than android (for tablet form factors, anyway). Now, like I said, I like Windows but there are just some things it does worse as a "mobile" operating system. The legacy x86 stuff is a crutch really. The legacy x86 stuff means that software works on everything and is a jack of all form factor trades, master of none. Whereas with iOS everything is designed specifically with the ipad in mind. Sorry, but apps designed with the form factor in mind will always be hands down superior to an application designed for "everything". That's my take on it. So i'll use windows on ultrabooks, laptops with touchpads and keyboards. But for a keyboardless and touchpadless tablet? Screw that. iOS and android are just better for those form factors.

So, basically, I see android for BT as being a good thing. Windows has its place. It is the best desktop operating system. The compatibly for "everything" makes it half baked for most actual touch driven applications, however. And when you're using an 8 inch tablet on the "go". Without a keyboard or touchpad. Screw windows. I'll take android anyday since android/iOS apps are better suited.

I admit I have a strong bias against android because of bad experiences I have had with the android tablet that I purchased a couple of years ago. I am sure part of that is due to lousy hardware, but I still dont like the OS either.

What I was trying to say though is that Bay Trail just becomes another SOC when running android and will have to win on price, performance, battery life or whatever, and loses its primary advantage, which is the ability to run x86 apps.

 

[witeken]

Well, if it is running android, who cares really. Android "is what it is". If you want a cheap android tablet, there are plenty of those already. The main advantage of Bay Trail to me is that you can run windows on it. I dont really know if Bay Trail offers enough advantage in price (without "contra revenue"), battery life or performance to distinguish itself from ARM except for the ability to run windows. Personally, I have used an android tablet for quite a while now, and if I ever can justify another tablet purchase, I will not even consider android. It will be either windows or IoS.

Intel stated that 80 to 90% of their 5M tablets in Q1 were Android.

 

[blackened23]

I admit I have a strong bias against android because of bad experiences I have had with the android tablet that I purchased a couple of years ago. I am sure part of that is due to lousy hardware, but I still dont like the OS either.

What I was trying to say though is that Bay Trail just becomes another SOC when running android and will have to win on price, performance, battery life or whatever, and loses its primary advantage, which is the ability to run x86 apps.

Yeah, that's true. At the same time, this isn't necessarily a bad thing; remember the Bay Trail compares very favorably in terms of SOC CPU performance and PPW compared to ARM SOCs. In fact, Bay Trail has the *best* CPU performance currently of everything on the market, except perhaps the newest qualcomm 801. The Apple A7 maybe, but then again, the A7 doesn't matter because it is an iOS device. The A7 doesn't compete against Bay Trail since BT is an android/windows SOC, while the A7 will never do anything more than iOS.

Bottom line is that while it is true that BT is now another android SOC, this is a good thing. For mobile, this is what consumers want; BT compares favorably to other ARM SOCs. The other important factor is, like it or not ,windows 8.1 is actually a very poor *mobile* operating system. Now I love windows. Windows has its benefits. But it just has shortcomings as a mobile OS, there is no overlooking this. Wide ranging compatibility is great, but that also means that fewer than 1% of apps are designed for the tablet form factor which is detrimental.

Believe me, I was a pure windows guy for the longest time. Using an ipad for over a year made several things very clear to me though - believe it or not, there are some tasks that I can do faster on the ipad than I can on the desktop. I actually prefer doing many basic tasks from my ipad even moreso than I do on my desktop. Applications that are designed for a specific form factor or device turns out to really benefit the intuitiveness of the app.

I guess, basically, I see the strengths / benefits of both windows and android. They both have merits. They're both great in certain contexts. They both have use cases. I do feel android is hands down superior as a touch driven mobile OS - windows just needs work here, but I doubt it is possible because wide ranging compatibility means that apps are never *specifically* designed for touch or a tablet. And that isn't a good thing for using an application on a touch driven device, 99% of the time that means a Windows 8.1 on a tablet is just half baked in terms of touch driven usage. Which isn't the case with Android or iOS as mentioned.

Also, android has far more potential in terms of market share than just Windows alone, android is a huge market. If BT excels and compares favorably to other SOCs (as it should, since it is the sole readily available SOC that supports x64 android) then it will just do that much better on the market. I'd say not having android until recently (last month) was the main drawback of BT, and now that issue is fixed. More potential for intel here now that android support is finalized. It won't be an easy path for intel by any means, but as long as they keep plugging away then intel should be a viable competitor. Which I believe is a good thing, since qualcomm is a near sole player among high end devices now; I think they could use a viable competitor in their rear view mirror. And I think intel will do that. Intel won't dominate by any means, but they will be a good competitor for android SOCs I do believe.

 

[seitur]

Intel stated that 80 to 90% of their 5M tablets in Q1 were Android.

Unit count size or revenue wise?

 

[AtenRa]

Unit count size or revenue wise?

Most likely count size, everyone is waiting for Bay-Trail Android tablets.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Intel stated that 80 to 90% of their 5M tablets in Q1 were Android.

Then where are they in the retail channels? I dont know the figures, so I am not disputing your numbers. It just seems that considering all the money Intel is pouring into subsidizing the hardware adoption of Bay Trail, the marketing is terrible.

I live in a large metropolitan area, which has Best Buy, MicroCenter, Staples, and Office Max stores. Despite IMO attractive products like the Dell Venue 8 pro and Asus T100, none of those stores have a display model of a moderate priced windows tablet or convertible on display, much less android Bay Trail devices. They have 800.00 Surface 2 and the abominable Surface RT of course, but no moderate to cheap Bay Trail devices.

 

[Shivansps]

Not sure if already mentioned, but i just realised that newegg is selling the T100 with the extra 500GB HDD on dock.

 

[Sweepr]

Insane Deal: Dell Venue 8 Pro 32GB available for $189 @ http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-Pro...97011_4]Amazon.

That's less than half the price of an iPad mini with Retina display. If only I lived in the US.
At that price it's currently outselling both Nexus 7 and the iPad mini. We need more Windows tablet deals like this.

 

[witeken]

Then where are they in the retail channels? I dont know the figures, so I am not disputing your numbers. It just seems that considering all the money Intel is pouring into subsidizing the hardware adoption of Bay Trail, the marketing is terrible.

I don't know. Ask Intel. I guess those tablets are Clover Trail.

 

[bullzz]

@sweepr
"That's less than half the price of an iPad mini with Retina display"
are u sure venue 8 pro is retina res? i thought it was low res

"At that price it's currently outselling both Nexus 7 and the iPad mini. We need more Windows tablet deals like this."
do we have numbers on all 3 tablets. i would be surprised if this out sold ipad mini

 

[Sweepr]

@sweepr
"That's less than half the price of an iPad mini with Retina display"
are u sure venue 8 pro is retina res? i thought it was low res

Did I say it was a direct iPad mini Retina competitor? It's not. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than the outdated $299 iPad mini 1st gen (dual-core A9; 1024x768 display - I own one).

"At that price it's currently outselling both Nexus 7 and the iPad mini. We need more Windows tablet deals like this."
do we have numbers on all 3 tablets. i would be surprised if this out sold ipad mini

I was talking about Amazon's best sellers. The $189 deal is over now, but it was outselling everything but the $139-169 Kindle tablets at that price.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Then where are they in the retail channels?

China.

They are already selling there. I saw some 32-bit Android Bay Trail devices that were supposed to be released back in February as well.

They are also planning Windows based devices in the $99-199 range. Microsoft is cutting the costs of OS+Office from $30 to $0, and cutting the space the OS takes from 8GB to 3GB, to make it possible 16GB eMMC devices.

 

[frozentundra123456]

@sweepr
"That's less than half the price of an iPad mini with Retina display"
are u sure venue 8 pro is retina res? i thought it was low res

"At that price it's currently outselling both Nexus 7 and the iPad mini. We need more Windows tablet deals like this."
do we have numbers on all 3 tablets. i would be surprised if this out sold ipad mini

Venue 8 is 1200 x 800 but I am not convinced that super high resolution for these small tablets is really anything more than a marketing gimmick. I mean I have a 1080p 15 inch laptop, and the screen seems very, very nice to me. I haven't calculated it out but I am pretty sure that the venue 8 will have considerably higher pixel density than a 15 or 17 inch 1080p laptop.

 

[AE-Ruffy]

Insane Deal: Dell Venue 8 Pro 32GB available for $189 @ http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-Pro...97011_4]Amazon.

That's less than half the price of an iPad mini with Retina display. If only I lived in the US.
At that price it's currently outselling both Nexus 7 and the iPad mini. We need more Windows tablet deals like this.

I purchased my Dell Venue 8 Pro 64gb for $199 from Dell outlet. Many were returned because of wifi issues(Driver problems)

They've mostly been fixed so you find mint condition tablets.

 

[TrulyUncouth]

This deal isn't showing for me, is there some trick to it?

Insane Deal: Dell Venue 8 Pro 32GB available for $189 @ http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-Pro...97011_4]Amazon.

That's less than half the price of an iPad mini with Retina display. If only I lived in the US.
At that price it's currently outselling both Nexus 7 and the iPad mini. We need more Windows tablet deals like this.

 

[Sweepr]

This deal isn't showing for me, is there some trick to it?

Unfortunately I think it's over by now. I may have noticed the deal a bit too late (or maybe it was sold out real fast).

 

[Sweepr]

New Bay Trail-D analysis from Techspot, including some interesting results:

However, AM1 has the plus of being more flexible as the CPU can be upgraded. Performance-wise, the Celeron J1900 and Athlon 5350 are evenly matched. In programs such as Excel 2013, Internet Explorer 10, WinRAR, Adobe After Effects CS6, and Adobe Illustrator CS6 they offer virtually the same performance.

Less than half Celeron G1820's power consumption under CPU+GPU load and quite a bit less than Kabini too. Pentium J1900 came out quite close to Athlon 5350 (fastest AM1 Kabini) CPU-wise. An Athlon 5350 vs Pentium J2900 (fastest Bay Trail-D chip right now) comparison should be interesting.