The Intel Atom Thread

[jdubs03]

The question is can you buy a bay trail device that performs better than the best A7/S800 device and the answer is categorically no. Bay Trail can claim to be as efficient as the sun but if it's never exhibited in that capacity then the point is moot.

You make the assumption that cherry trail will be competitive in GPU, do you think apple is doing nothing with the A8 and Samsung with the S805? Intel will need to more than double it's current GPU while simultaneously maintaining or lowering overall power usage and increasing CPU performance. They've never done that before.

The S805 won't even a miniature candle to Cherry Trail, either CPU or GPU wise (the S805 is GPU focused and only 40% higher performing).

The A8 is a complete unknown so we can't really speculate on performance on a CPU/GPU basis, but its likely to be 20nm, so they'll net a solid performance benefit from just the process decrease irrespective of a uArch change, but I imagine it'll be a potent SOC.

In terms of Bay-Trail and performance/watt, it is just as competitive as the ARM variants; I said that before and I'll say it again, including the A7, and that is highly optimized for iOS.

 

[Bolshoi Booze]

The question is can you buy a bay trail device that performs better than the best A7/S800 device and the answer is categorically no. Bay Trail can claim to be as efficient as the sun but if it's never exhibited in that capacity then the point is moot.

yes, plenty of BT devices offer all day battery life, or come really close

You make the assumption that cherry trail will be competitive in GPU, do you think apple is doing nothing with the A8 and Samsung with the S805? Intel will need to more than double it's current GPU while simultaneously maintaining or lowering overall power usage and increasing CPU performance. They've never done that before.

theres no assumption, it will be way more competitive than BT is, they increased the EUs from 4 to 16 and improved the architecture... how it stands up against the competition? who knows... well S805 is a mere 40% shader performance increase vs S800 (not even S801) and A8 will need to be 2.5x faster than A7 to match tegra K1 in GFXbench.. so its not like qualcomm or apple are sitting confortable with a huge lead anymore

 

[Arachnotronic]

The question is can you buy a bay trail device that performs better than the best A7/S800 device and the answer is categorically no. Bay Trail can claim to be as efficient as the sun but if it's never exhibited in that capacity then the point is moot.

You make the assumption that cherry trail will be competitive in GPU, do you think apple is doing nothing with the A8 and Samsung with the S805? Intel will need to more than double it's current GPU while simultaneously maintaining or lowering overall power usage and increasing CPU performance. They've never done that before.

Please look at the GPU and CPU performance delta between CLT (Z2760) and BYT (Z3770).

GPU performance is ~4-5x, and CPU performance is >= 2x.

 

[jdubs03]

LOL, go look at the GPU and CPU performance delta between CLT (Z2760) and BYT (Z3770).

GPU performance is ~4-5x, and CPU performance is >= 2x.

For sure that is a fact, but that was the old Atom transitioning a new Atom, in terms of major changes in the uArch and a process node shrink.

A lot of the process shrink for CT will be allocated to the GPU, so we're going to see a massive improvement there, while the CPU will hopefully get a minor overhaul. I think we'll see at least a 4x improvement in GPU, it sounds as if its getting a GT2 Broadwell part.

 

[Enigmoid]

For sure that is a fact, but that was the old Atom transitioning a new Atom, in terms of major changes in the uArch and a process node shrink.

A lot of the process shrink for CT will be allocated to the GPU, so we're going to see a massive improvement there, while the CPU will hopefully get a minor overhaul. I think we'll see at least a 4x improvement in GPU, it sounds as if its getting a GT2 Broadwell part.

We get a process shrink with Cherry Trail and a GPU revision. CPU probably isn't going to change much but maybe higher clocks in mobile variants.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, BT to me has one huge performance advantage. It runs windows. I know I am in the minority, but I hate android for a tablet. And I mean hate it with a passion. Perhaps my viewpoint has been biased because the tablet I have is just poorly designed, but I will never buy another android tablet. It will either be windows (most likely) or IoS.

In a phone, that is another story, it is OK, because I want to do less with a phone than a tablet.

By the same token, the problem I see for intel in tablets and phones is that most people do not share my opinion, and if you use atom to just run android, you are giving up it biggest advantage.

 

[jdubs03]

We get a process shrink with Cherry Trail and a GPU revision. CPU probably isn't going to change much but maybe higher clocks in mobile variants.

I hope for Intel's sake your incorrect, in terms of just having higher clocks, because I can't forsee the A57's not smashing a higher clocked Bay Trail CPU. I hope they would iterate something more substantial for CPU performance, and not just focus solely on GPU. From what I have seen there will be some improvements, with a major change for Broxton.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I hope for Intel's sake your incorrect, in terms of just having higher clocks, because I can't forsee the A57's not smashing a higher clocked Bay Trail CPU. I hope they would iterate something more substantial for CPU performance, and not just focus solely on GPU. From what I have seen there will be some improvements, with a major change for Broxton.

Most of the A57 designs seem to be headed towards lower clocks than A15, so only real products will tell how it is. Also, Bay Trail probably clocks quite a bit less than max Burst clock with all cores active. Cherry Trail can improve on that aspect.

But it'll be lot more competitive than with Bay Trail, because GPU part will likely be class leading.* Also, for Intel, contra revenue decreases substantially.

*Intel and Nvidia are aiming for PetaFlop systems in a 40MW power envelope. That's a huge step up from today. Hence that's why you see dramatically increased perf/watt designs like Maxwell, and Knights Landing. Maxwell on Geforce 750ti at 60W nearly catches up to the Geforce 650 Ti Boost at 134W. With Knights Landing, Intel will TRIPLE the Flops/watt compared to Knights Corner. The advances from both camps are going to be trickled down into the consumer space. I expect the first result of that for Intel to be with Gen 8 GPU designs(Broadwell).

 

[Nothingness]

Just in someone else doesn't, basically Bay Trail was not designed with tablets in mind. There are additional costs required to implement Bay Trail on a system board level, like adding more circuit board layers, that are unrelated to the cost of Intel's product. Intel ended up having an uncompetitive product as a result, so they've had to provide subsidies in order to make their product competitive.

Intel design->market time is horribly long compared to the competition. So if their marketing team got it wrong some years ago, they are screwed. Or they have to use TSMC + ARM on an obsolete process. Intel is learning synthesizable chips are good because they bring agility.

They're still missing a lot of polish on the SoC level. Wonder if they'll ever have the killer features that Qualcomm has.

I have little doubt they'll get it right real soon now. The question is whether the tablet market isn't already saturated and if any of the big ones want to have Intel onboard if the competition is close enough.

 

[Phynaz]

Just in someone else doesn't, basically Bay Trail was not designed with tablets in mind. There are additional costs required to implement Bay Trail on a system board level, like adding more circuit board layers, that are unrelated to the cost of Intel's product. Intel ended up having an uncompetitive product as a result, so they've had to provide subsidies in order to make their product competitive. They're still missing a lot of polish on the SoC level. Wonder if they'll ever have the killer features that Qualcomm has.

The last analysis I read stated Intel is two years behind Qualcomm. That explains the massive amount of R&D spend by Intel - they are burning cash to catch up.

 

[TreVader]

Well, BT to me has one huge performance advantage. It runs windows. I know I am in the minority, but I hate android for a tablet. And I mean hate it with a passion. Perhaps my viewpoint has been biased because the tablet I have is just poorly designed, but I will never buy another android tablet. It will either be windows (most likely) or IoS.



In a phone, that is another story, it is OK, because I want to do less with a phone than a tablet.



By the same token, the problem I see for intel in tablets and phones is that most people do not share my opinion, and if you use atom to just run android, you are giving up it biggest advantage.

If windows got some traction in mobile then Intel would have a good chance of making good on it's ambitions. As it stands, Bay Trail for android is adequate but doesn't stand out as superior to ARM in tablet form factor. As a desktop chip Bay Trail is a joke and should be called Atom and not Pentium.

I do think windows is superior to Android but still far inferior to iOS as far as user experience goes. What people don't realize is that while android and windows devices are using massive 3600+mAh batteries, iOS devices are getting by with less than half that. If apple put an android size battery in the iPad it would run for days.

 

[kimmel]

What people don't realize is that while android and windows devices are using massive 3600+mAh batteries, iOS devices are getting by with less than half that. If apple put an android size battery in the iPad it would run for days.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad+Mini+Retina+Display+Teardown/19374

3.75 V, 24.3 Whr, 6471 mAh—a huge bump over the 16.3 Whr battery seen in the previous Mini.

 

[TreVader]

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad+Mini+Retina+Display+Teardown/19374

Please quote the size of the iPhone 5s battery, as long as were cherry picking benchmarks

 

[kimmel]

Please quote the size of the iPhone 5s battery, as long as were cherry picking benchmarks

Your quote about battery sizes was just so easily proven wrong I couldn't resist. I'm not about to look up other unrelated products to your joke of a comment. You're the one cherry picking battery sizes from tablet windows devices vs a 4 inch phone. They are all in the same ballpark, nothing to make a fuss over.

 

[TreVader]

Your quote about battery sizes was just so easily proven wrong I couldn't resist. I'm not about to look up other unrelated products to your joke of a comment. You're the one cherry picking battery sizes from tablet windows devices vs a 4 inch phone. They are all in the same ballpark, nothing to make a fuss over.

Lol @ being unrelated, the battery life edge iOS has is real and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. You're constantly in here defending intel like it's your job. It's sad, really. I hope somebody's drafting checks for it.

You're gone for a week. You know damn well we don't allow personal attacks or thread crapping
-ViRGE

 

[Enigmoid]

Lol @ being unrelated, the battery life edge iOS has is real and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. You're constantly in here defending intel like it's your job. It's sad, really. I hope somebody's drafting checks for it.

Its not so much the OS as the optimizations that apple makes for its devices.

 

[Homeles]

Its not so much the OS as the optimizations that apple makes for its devices.

Android : PC :: iOS : Consoles

 

[witeken]

They've never done that before.

So what? Before 2012, Intel had never before done FinFETs. According to your logic, it was unlikely that Intel would have ever been able to produce FinFETs.

 

[witeken]

I hope for Intel's sake your incorrect, in terms of just having higher clocks, because I can't forsee the A57's not smashing a higher clocked Bay Trail CPU. I hope they would iterate something more substantial for CPU performance, and not just focus solely on GPU. From what I have seen there will be some improvements, with a major change for Broxton.

He's correct. Cherry Trail is a tick, not a tock. A57 might be faster, but at which power consumption price? In any case, the slight raw performance advantage of A57 probably won't last long: Broxton will come a few months later. For tablets, we might see Willow Trail around the same time as A57, if it still exists.

 

[TrulyUncouth]

So what? Before 2012, Intel had never before done FinFETs. According to your logic, it was unlikely that Intel would have ever been able to produce FinFETs.

I agree that its silly to assume they can't pull off the jump but your comparison makes no sense. FinFETS are a simple exist/don't exist situation whereas performance improvements are a constantly varying target that you can try to guess a trend from.

He was short-sighted to make his claim but you are just talking past the issue.

I want Cherry Trail to be the chip that finally makes Windows convertibles good enough for me to do light gaming on so I am more hopeful than most that it will bring light x86 gaming to the forefront in the space but I also think it doesn't hurt to temper our hopes considering it will take a huge leap to achieve this scenario. I hope AMDs new ~5 watt part or Cherry Trail knock it out of the park since x86 in this space seems like a huge plus to me.

 

[cbn]

The 12th Bay Trail-D desktop board to hit retail:

ECS BAT-I(1.0)/J1900

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813135382

($74.99 plus special shipping)

P.S. Looking through memory compatibility list at the ECS website, the BAT-I can use 1.5v SO-DIMMs (just like the Asrock Bay Trail-D boards which can also use 1.5v memory). Hopefully BAT-I2 (when it gets released) brings 1.5v 240 pin DIMM capability.

 

[Global688]

Picked up a the ASrock Q1900 board for use as a firewall.

Seems to idle around 16-18w and full load is 30w.

 

[cbn]

Picked up a the ASrock Q1900 board for use as a firewall.

Seems to idle around 16-18w and full load is 30w.

Hi Global,

1. What distro are you using for the firewall?

(I am thinking of playing around with x86 firewall for the first time fairly soon.)

2. I am assuming that is an Intel dual NIC card (PCI-E x4) in that PCI-E x16 slot (running x1). (Am I right about this?). If so, the reduced PCI-E lanes are sufficient even though the card is x4?

 

[Sweepr]

Bay Trail-T based ASUS MeMO Pad 8 (US/Europe) coming soon to US & Europe

Well, thanks to the guys over at MobileGeeks, who have been doing some digging around the network, we can now lift the veil off the specifications and first live pictures of the upcoming ASUS MeMO Pad 8 (ME181), a variation probably destined for the international markets such as the US and Europe.

Sadly, for those of you who were hoping to see a Moorefield chip like in the model launched in Japan not so long ago, you’ll be disappointed. However, there’s still hope that the LTE model might come bundling this particular chip architecture. But until we get news that such a variant is actually in the pipe-line, let’s see what the Wi-Fi-only version will bring to the table.

The upcoming tablet is set to arrive with an 8-inch-wide LED backlit IPS display with a resolution of 1280 x 800 pixels. Power comes from an Intel Atom Z3745 quad-core SoC clocked at 1.33 GHz (from the Bay Trail family), fitted with 1GB of RAM and backed up by either 8GB/16GB of internal storage (expandable via microSD card up to 32GB).

There’s good news in the OS department, because the slate will arrive with Android 4.4.2 KitKat out of the box, so you won’t have to wait for it to be updated. The 8-inch slate is said to arrive in either black, white or purple coloring options, and according to the information we have so far, it will be priced around the $200 / €146 margin.

www.mobilegeeks.de/asus-memo-pad-8-...onen-zum-8-inch-tablet-mit-bay-trail-quadcore
news.softpedia.com/news/ASUS-MeMO-Pad-8-with-Bay-Trail-Quad-Core-Specs-and-Pics-Leak-442749.shtml

ASUS Transformer Pad TF103 with Bay Trail & Android 4.4 KitKat

The new Transformer Pad can be called the successor of the Tegra-based Eee Pad Transformer TF101 and Transformer Pad 300. And just like the two models just mentioned, the new tablet arrives with a 10.1-inch display and 1280 x 800 pixel resolution.

The devices bundles a Bay Trail processor fitted with 1GB of RAM and 16GB of internal storage. In the photography department, we have a 2MP camera on the back and a webcam up in the front. The new Transformer arrives with Wi-Fi, microSD card reader and runs Android 4.4 KitKat out of the box. The ASUS Transformer Pad TF103 should make it out into the wild in white and black model somewhere in early July with a price tag of €279.99 / $384.

www.tabletsmagazine.nl/2014/05/asus-transformer-pad-tf103-duikt-op-bij-nederlandse-winkel
http://news.softpedia.com/news/ASUS...-4-4-KitKat-Shows-Up-in-New-Pics-442887.shtml

PiPO W3 is a Bay Trail-T Surface-like tablet running full Windows 8.1

[...] It has the latest quad core Intel 3775D setup, Windows 8.1 as the OS and a 10.1 inch 1920 x 1200 pixel display, which is clearly an evolution from nowadays’ standard 1366 x 768 slate displays. This feels a bit like a Surface tablet clone, looking at the design particularly the keyboard part. This Bay Trail based unit has a frequency of 1.49 GHz for the CPU and with a boost it can get to 2.46 GHz.

The battery here promises 8 hours of functioning and the screen mentioned above offers a 16:10 aspect ratio, as well as wide view angles, thanks to IPS tech. PiPO W3 offers 2 GB of RAM, 64 GB internal storage maximum, as well as WiFi and 3G versions. All we need now is an affordable price for it…

http://tablet-news.com/2014/05/15/p...om-tablet-with-windows-8-and-very-nice-design
http://www.pbhz.com/pipo-w3.html

IRU V1001G & B1002G: New Windows 10'' Atom Z3740D tablets

http://gadgets.briefly.tk/iru-v1001...-s-chipami-intel-bay-trail-t-i-os-windows-8-1

 

[cbn]

Gigabyte server Avoton:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8040/gigabyte-server-launches-new-c2750-miniitx-and-2p-atx-lga2011

This one is pretty nice in that it has the four NICs.

The article mentions this board will be used primarily for networking (even though Gigabyte included all six SATA ports):

and four Intel I354 Gigabit NICs alongside AST2400 management. The networking is the focus here rather than storage, although GIGABYTE does use the six on-board SATA ports

With this in mind, I have to wonder why Avoton C2350 wasn't used? C2350 also has four NICS, but of course the cpu is only dual core @ 1.7 Ghz. Can someone please enlighten me?