The Intel Atom Thread

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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,543
4,327
136
I dont think that is what he is getting at...maybe the tested components were chosen and optimize for low power consumption, far greater than an average system would be...or atleast that is what I think he is referring to.

I guess that all thoses "rewiewers" including Anand where
just too happy to be given some food for new articles
so they didnt even try to question the methodology but
what to think when one says 2.6W system iddling with windows
and then Anand that pretend thet power draw was
2.5W whith CB MT test for the SoC .?..

Simply , the numbers dont add up at all...

I think that this chip is effectively 7W TDP at least ,
given the numbers available for other models.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,248
321
136
Read my edit , intel already tried to fool people ,
it was only two years ago , quite a standard , isnt it.?..

No better than nvidia or qualcomm , actualy , perhaps
even worse sometime , as said , ask mooly eden..

So, how 'bout that Snapdragon 800 in the LG G2 that doesn't live up to the Qualcomm phone MDP benchmarks? Where does that fit into the 'tried to fool people' category?

With respect to the staged IVB demo - at least it was a video of an actual IVB system and matched actual system performance. It was nothing more than an attempt to make the 'demo' problem free on the part of some uninformed event coordinator. It didn't make the end product out as performing better than it would in actual systems.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
An even if it had a slight GPU advantage the Z3770 would still beat it in actual games thanks to its huge CPU performance advantage (>3x in MT!), likely using less power too (especially platform power). At the end of the day both would suck at demanding Windows games (console ports) but one would have >3x higher CPU performance for other tasks. Easy choice.

And Dual channel RAM.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
So why don't you email him and ask if he thinks Intel pulled one over on him about power consumption?

Or even better! Sue him!

No.. I don't care about the whole ultra-mobile.
It so stupid, it is not worth it. Suddenly people value CPU power more on the entertainment platform, rather than GPU performance. Just like they are going to do heavy rendering with a tablet, and not casual gaming...
/quit
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
I guess that all thoses "rewiewers" including Anand where
just too happy to be given some food for new articles
so they didnt even try to question the methodology but
what to think when one says 2.6W system iddling with windows
and then Anand that pretend thet power draw was
2.5W whith CB MT test for the SoC .?..

Simply , the numbers dont add up at all...

I think that this chip is effectively 7W TDP at least ,
given the numbers available for other models.

It is using a 10 inch 1600p panel. That alone is sucking up a lot of power.

Notebookcheck ipad 4 review.

Apple has stuck to the Lithium-Polymer battery of the predecessor. The battery offers a capacity of 42.5 Wh. According to the manufacturer, the battery life should still be the same, despite the stronger SoC. The power consumption is moderate. While idle, we measured between 2.6 W and 8.4 W. The actual consumption should lie around 6 W. At full load (GL benchmark 2.5.1), the tablet requires up to 12.5 W from the battery.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,543
4,327
136
It is using a 10 inch 1600p panel. That alone is sucking up a lot of power.

Notebookcheck ipad 4 review.
I dont have numbers right under the hand
but IIRC a panel should drain 0.8 to 1W or so at 200 nits.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,248
321
136
I dont have numbers right under the hand
but IIRC a panel should drain 0.8 to 1W or so at 200 nits.

... Depends upon a number of factors, especially display size. Regardless, there was no information provided as to display brightness in any of the previews.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,543
4,327
136
... Depends upon a number of factors, especially display size. Regardless, there was no information provided as to display brightness in any of the previews.

Suddenly we cant draw conclusions , questionning
TDP is a tabu it seems but talking perfs without TDP
numbers is of course relevant..unless it is AMD....

The irony...

Edit : 11"6 to 13.3".........
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,875
1,530
136
Someone knows anything about OpenGL on Bay Trail, they mentioned DX11 and OpenGL ES, but the desktop OpenGL is also supported like in Ivy Bridge right?
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
I dont have numbers right under the hand
but IIRC a panel should drain 0.8 to 1W or so at 200 nits.

No way. On my laptop with a 1080p 15.6" panel platform power use goes from 16 to 20.5 watt from highest to lowest brightness.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Y580-20994BU-Laptop-Review.78974.0.html

As per the review here the max brightness on my screen is 230-240 nits.

Notebookcheck measures power as follows for notebooks. I'm assuming tablet is similar.


Idle: (Measurements under Windows 8 desktop)
energy saving profile, minimum brightness, Wi-Fi off:
balanced profile, maximum brightness, Wi-Fi off
maximum performance profile, maximum brightness, Wi-Fi on

Ipad 4 is respectively 2.6/8/8.4 watts. Max brightness for ipad 4 is 290-300 nits.

Toshiba Excite Pro is 2.5 / 4.7 / 6.1 watts. (310 nits)

nexus 10 is 3.7 / 8.4 / 9 watts (390 nits).

This thing at 200 nits is using more than 1W.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,248
321
136
No way. On my laptop with a 1080p 15.6" panel platform power use goes from 16 to 20.5 watt from highest to lowest brightness.

Power usage for a given level of brightness is dependent upon display size. That's actually why I cringe slightly at the implication many reviews make that display power usage is being normalized by setting all devices to 200 nits... when a 10 inch screen at 200 nits is going to be using roughly half the power of a 15 inch screen at 200 nits.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
126
Is it just me or most people in this thread are not amazed on how much improvements we have gotten in the last 12 months. Low power cpus in phones and tablets have about double single threaded performance from both intel and arm in the last 12 months.

Instead everyone is talking about intel vs qualcomm or intel vs amd.

Isn't the bigger deal now we are now moving to a world where a tablet doesn't have to be a toy, a pos, or a consumption device but instead powerful enough to be really useful; possibly even a laptop replacement.

All from a device that is light, with a good screen, portable, and $300 to $400 dollars.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
Power usage for a given level of brightness is dependent upon display size. That's actually why I cringe slightly at the implication many reviews make that display power usage is being normalized by setting all devices to 200 nits... when a 10 inch screen at 200 nits is going to be using roughly half the power of a 15 inch screen at 200 nits.

Common knowledge is: pixels are source of light.... more pixels = more light = more power.
But it is only true for OLED screens. In reality the number of pixels is almost meaningless. The only thing that matter is surface, type of light source, and brightness.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
Power usage for a given level of brightness is dependent upon display size. That's actually why I cringe slightly at the implication many reviews make that display power usage is being normalized by setting all devices to 200 nits... when a 10 inch screen at 200 nits is going to be using roughly half the power of a 15 inch screen at 200 nits.

They are probably using 200/150 nits as a way to factor brightness settings out of the equation, using a common usability baseline (because 50% brightness is even worse).

The tablet power figures I gave all use 10.1/9.7" 1600/1440p displays and should be quite comparable. I measure on my device 4.5 watts difference between minimal and maximal brightness. If we assume a 10 inch 1600p tablet uses roughly half that amount of power then its using around 2 watts.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,143
131
New leak: some of the Windows 8.1 devices based on Bay Trail-T

Acer: Updated version of 8-inch "Bay Trail" W3-810. Battery: 8 hours. Price: $349
ASUS: 10.1-inch "Bay Trail" Transformer Book Trio T100TA. Battery: 12 hours. Price: $329. (This is a complement to the pricier 13.3-inch Transformer Book.)
Dell: 8-inch "Bay Trail" Venue. Battery: 10+ hours. Price: $299
Dell: 10.8-inch codenamed "Midland" running "BayTrail." Battery life: 9 hours (replaceable). Price: $399
Lenovo: 8-inch "Bay Trail" Miix 8. Battery: 8 hours. Price: $249
Lenovo: 10.1-inch "Bay Trail" Miix 2. Battery: 8 hours. Price: $449.
Toshiba: 8-inch "Bay Trail" Encore. Battery: 6-7 hours. Price: $329


http://www.zdnet.com/several-under-...devices-to-arrive-this-fall-report-7000020615

$299 for the Dell Venue (Bay Trail quad-core, Windows 8.1 x86, Full HD IPS 8'' screen, less than 400g)? If true, shut up and take my money.

 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I guess that all thoses "rewiewers" including Anand where
just too happy to be given some food for new articles
so they didnt even try to question the methodology but
what to think when one says 2.6W system iddling with windows
and then Anand that pretend thet power draw was
2.5W whith CB MT test for the SoC .?..

Simply , the numbers dont add up at all...

I think that this chip is effectively 7W TDP at least ,
given the numbers available for other models.

Do you understand how ridiculous these conspiracy theories sound? AT has some of the most objective reviews you'll find. Certainly they are not ones to misrepresent facts or blindly be misled. Intel does this testing methodology on a regular basis and has for years, and as it turns out the final retail products pretty much match.
 
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Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,248
321
136
Common knowledge is: pixels are source of light.... more pixels = more light = more power.
But it is only true for OLED screens. In reality the number of pixels is almost meaningless. The only thing that matter is surface, type of light source, and brightness.
It actually is true that a higher resolution screen of the same size will require more power to obtain the same brightness due to the greater amount of area taken up by the pixel structures. Basically they scale down the pixel size, but the actual structures remain basically the same size and so more of the area per pixel is devoted to the structures (aperture ratio.) It's the reason why the IGZO displays can have the same output brightness with less backlight.

They are probably using 200/150 nits as a way to factor brightness settings out of the equation, using a common usability baseline (because 50% brightness is even worse).
Yeah, it's certainly better than just using an arbitrary brightness setting. And there really isn't a better alternative - going with a constant candela value would result in smaller displays having to be set at 300 nits while larger displays were only at 100 nits for example, which introduces the problem of unrealistic brightness settings. There is no 'good' solution, but the least they could do is make it clear that just because all the systems are calibrated to 200 nits doesn't mean that the displays of different sizes are using comparable amounts of power.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
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New leak: some of the Windows 8.1 devices based on Bay Trail-T

Acer: Updated version of 8-inch "Bay Trail" W3-810. Battery: 8 hours. Price: $349
ASUS: 10.1-inch "Bay Trail" Transformer Book Trio T100TA. Battery: 12 hours. Price: $329. (This is a complement to the pricier 13.3-inch Transformer Book.)
Dell: 8-inch "Bay Trail" Venue. Battery: 10+ hours. Price: $299
Dell: 10.8-inch codenamed "Midland" running "BayTrail." Battery life: 9 hours (replaceable). Price: $399
Lenovo: 8-inch "Bay Trail" Miix 8. Battery: 8 hours. Price: $249
Lenovo: 10.1-inch "Bay Trail" Miix 2. Battery: 8 hours. Price: $449.
Toshiba: 8-inch "Bay Trail" Encore. Battery: 6-7 hours. Price: $329


http://www.zdnet.com/several-under-...devices-to-arrive-this-fall-report-7000020615

$299 for the Dell Venue (Bay Trail quad-core, Windows 8.1 x86, Full HD IPS 8'' screen, less than 400g)? If true, shut up and take my money.


I think somebody here was saying that if you ain't in an iPad or a Nexus, then you're not in anything...lol

But seriously, these are some VERY compelling designs and I think that Intel, Microsoft, and its long-suffering OEM partners are finally working together to bring something good to market.

Clover Trail kinda...erm, really...sucked, which kept anybody from really doing anything good, but BYT performs quite well and enables a lot of really neat designs. Is
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Pfft. Windows is far better than Android or iOS capability wise. Comparing android to full windows is like comparing a cripple to an Olympic athlete. As long as the tablet is quality (long battery life, high screen resolution, etc) i'm game.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
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In fact the problem with them is the Windows logo.

Windows isn't the problem. Crap designs were. If you make a solid design at a good price point, the OS really doesn't matter.

Android ain't nothing special, and those Nexus 7 tabs are selling great.

Some of you people just have very narrow vision about the computing space. Even Apple is saying that iOS is its future, not MacOS, because iOS will become more functional. Windows is there today, and more people in the world use Windows PCs than Mac PCs. People will be thrilled to get a cheap, powerful, and functional device that serves as their all-in-one computing companion.

Bank on it.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Given that Windows 8.1 tablets are around 300$, I have to question why Windows RT still exists, and why MS is releasing a Surface RT 2. That's just going to be a complete disaster. Nobody wanted to buy RT last year, and now they have even LESS reason to do so since Windows 8.1 tablets are the same price.
 
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