The Intel Atom Thread

[IntelUser2000]

If you can go from 2W TDP to 15W you have a winner. Core m phone?

That's a BIG range. If you take a 15W and try to take down to 2W, you need to cut down everything. Because you have fixed units that you can't really cut and become increasingly a bigger portion of your TDP. Other way is just as complicated. You would end up with a chip that's extremely inefficient at the other end of the range.

To make sense as a phone that would get popular it would need to be easy to use as a *Smartphone*. Using phone/text, or setting up with your favorite carrier. Current Windows 10 x86 is not it. To make it easy to use, a phone edition x86 Windows 10 needs hard work from Intel/MS.

 

[Exophase]

I don't think we can say for a certainty whether the yield issue was serious enough to affect it that much. These are seriously complicated stuff here. Only figure we know about yield is that ambiguous graph comparing to 22nm with no y-axis label. Is that a comparison a) at the same die size as the 22nm one? b) different die size from the 22nm? c) perhaps they have other problems like reaching certain frequency/voltage curve.

Intel is clearly behind ARM competition so we have two possibilities:
-14nm process really sucks and they were totally lying to us
-They are not capable of putting out a competent uarch. Whether due to internal conflicts, politics, disorganization, there's only one result apparent to the outsiders

I am just trying to guess what's so wrong that they are so behind even with a process difference that shouldn't be that much either way.

The GPU is a big leap forward from BayTrail's and is an improvement that is commensurate with the improvements we've seen in various ARM SoCs as they've made their node transitions. We're seeing a lot of cases there too where the GPU clock heavily throttles after a few minutes, and settles on lower clocks than previous generations because they're otherwise so much bigger (in terms of transistors)

So it's hard to look at the GPU and blame the process for it not being a lot better when their GPU has always been behind.

 

[krumme]

The soc is just hopelessly positioned with half geekbench scores vs A9/820/Mongoose but far better than the usual cheap a53 low end. So its stuck between low cost and red ocean.
In a market where nobody neither wants windows nor any oem wants to buy x86.
The gpu arch is fine. So is process.
Its the business side that is just hopeless. The window closed years ago.
But we get faster Nas and cheap Tablets

 

[dark zero]

The soc is just hopelessly positioned with half geekbench scores vs A9/820/Mongoose but far better than the usual cheap a53 low end. So its stuck between low cost and red ocean.
In a market where nobody neither wants windows nor any oem wants to buy x86.
The gpu arch is fine. So is process.
Its the business side that is just hopeless. The window closed years ago.
But we get faster Nas and cheap Tablets

I don't think so... The A53 chips are cheaper than the Cherry Trail chips.

 

[Sweepr]

New budget notebook from ASUS:

Asus VivoBook E200HA 11.6 inch Cherry Trail notebook now available for $199

Asus quietly started adding a series of new entry-level 11.6 inch laptops to its website in January. Now it looks like at least some of these laptops are available for purchase in the United States.

The Asus VivoBook E200HA is a Windows notebook with an 11.6 inch display, an Intel Atom x5-Z8300 Cherry Trail processor. It’s available from the Asus Store for $199. Like a lot of notebooks in the small-and-cheap category, the VivoBook E200HA has just 2GB of RAM and 32GB of eMMC storage. But the laptop does have a few features that could make it more attractive than the Asus EeeBook X205TA that the company launched in 2014.

For example, the new model has 802.11ac WiFi, Bluetooth 4.1, and a USB 3.0 port (as well as a USB 2.0 port)...

http://liliputing.com/2016/03/asus-...-cherry-trail-notebook-now-available-199.html


Yet another Intel modem inside iPhone rumour:

Next-generation iPhone may Intel Inside, although only 4G LTE Modem

https://benchlife.info/intel-to-supply-iphone-modem-by-xmm-7360-spread-again-03052016

 

[Sweepr]

Intel 2016 Mobile Roadmap

Apollo Lake at the same time as Kabylake-Y/U in Q3, Broxton in Q4.
SoFIA LTE in Q2, SoFIA LTE 2 in mid-2017.

 

[Face2Face]

Intel 2016 Mobile Roadmap

Apollo Lake at the same time as Kabylake-Y/U in Q3, Broxton in Q4.
SoFIA LTE in Q2, SoFIA LTE 2 in mid-2017.

Unless they use a Core M, we can't expect a X86 Surface Phone this year.

 

[NTMBK]

Intel 2016 Mobile Roadmap

Apollo Lake at the same time as Kabylake-Y/U in Q3, Broxton in Q4.
SoFIA LTE in Q2, SoFIA LTE 2 in mid-2017.

Sofia LTE 2 isn't coming until mid-2017? Jesus Christ, Intel, you're not even pretending to compete any more.

 

[Thala]

Unless they use a Core M, we can't expect a X86 Surface Phone this year.

Why not? They can use Cherrytrail +XMM7360 or even SoFIA LTE.

 

[NTMBK]

Why not? They can use Cherrytrail +XMM7360 or even SoFIA LTE.

But those options would both suck in a flagship. Cherry Trail can't compete with chips like the Snapdragon 820, it's way too slow. Compare the benchmark results from the Surface 3 (using top of the line Cherry Trail, in a tablet chassis) with the Galaxy S7 review. On the web browser benchmarks (the most important things in a phone), it gets blown out of the water.

 

[Thala]

But those options would both suck in a flagship.

Of course this would suck for a flag ship. In particular since they cannot run Cherrytrail with the same power envelope as in a tablet. But there are no indications, that an x86 Surface phone would be a flagship device...could be just a mid-range business device.

I am convinced that the Windows mobile flagships will continue to use ARM SoCs ... i mean they have to.

 

[NTMBK]

Of course this would suck for a flag ship. In particular since they cannot run Cherrytrail with the same power envelope as in a tablet. But there are no indications, that an x86 Surface phone would be a flagship device...could be just a mid-range business device.

I am convinced that the Windows mobile flagships will continue to use ARM SoCs ... i mean they have to.

I just don't see the benefit in a low end x86 Surface phone. Too slow to run the majority of x86 Windows apps satisfactorily, more expensive than the ARM alternatives, I don't get it. It would just make the Surface brand look bad.

 

[Thala]

Too slow to run the majority of x86 Windows apps satisfactorily, more expensive than the ARM alternatives, I don't get it.

Well, Win32 applications would not run on Windows Mobile anyway. If Microsoft had any intentions of running a desktop class OS on phones, they would have deployed Windows RT an ARM phones instead of Windows Mobile. Would have saved them tons of money since they could have scrapped Windows Mobile.
So looking at the current strategy (assuming there is one) this means Windows Mobile on phones.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Sofia LTE 2 isn't coming until mid-2017? Jesus Christ, Intel, you're not even pretending to compete any more.

The Atom team at Intel does not appear to be good at their jobs.

 

[zentan]

SoFIA 3G/3GR seems absolutely pointless with the timing they got.

 

[dark zero]

RIP Intel mobile. No one will miss you. By the time SOFIA LTE comes, A72 would be the new mid tier and A53 the lowest of the lowest.

 

[Shivansps]

man, we are stuck at Cherry Trail for the whole year?!

 

[Arachnotronic]

man, we are stuck at Cherry Trail for the whole year?!

yup, good going Intel!

 

[Shivansps]

yup, good going Intel!

The worst part is there are no other x86 option!!!

 

[ehume]

I keep thinking I will get an upgraded HP Stream, this time a Stream 13. I got a Stream 11 in January 2015. It has a Cherry Trail, right? Now it'll be a close call to see if next year's Stream is upgraded to Broxton, or if I'll be stuck another year with the 11" screen.

Unless I have this mixed up. I thought that we had the SkyLake/KabyLake and the Cherry Trail. Where does the Apollo Lake fit in?

 

[Sweepr]

man, we are stuck at Cherry Trail for the whole year?!

Really surprising (and disappointing). Last time I heard about Broxton it was still planned for mid-2016, launching earlier than Apollo Lake.

Unless I have this mixed up. I thought that we had the SkyLake/KabyLake and the Cherry Trail. Where does the Apollo Lake fit in?

Braswell successor for entry-level notebooks and desktops, new CPU architecture (Goldmont).

 

[ehume]

Really surprising (and disappointing). Last time I heard about Broxton it was still planned for mid-2016, launching earlier than Apollo Lake. . . . Braswell successor for entry-level notebooks and desktops, new CPU architecture (Goldmont).

Thank you. But where does it fit in? Is it another Atom which could make it into a low-ender like the HP steam? Or does it fit somewhere higher in the lineup? I haven't found it on Google yet.

 

[Sweepr]

Thank you. But where does it fit in? Is it another Atom which could make it into a low-ender like the HP steam? Or does it fit somewhere higher in the lineup? I haven't found it on Google yet.

If they keep the current naming scheme then Broxton = Atom Z4xx and Apollo Lake = Pentium/Celeron N4xxx. HP Stream uses Celeron N3050, so it could be upgraded to an Apollo Lake part in Q3.

 

[Exophase]

Really surprising (and disappointing). Last time I heard about Broxton it was still planned for mid-2016, launching earlier than Apollo Lake.

Intel has promised for years that they would be shifting to leading the new Atom uarchs on phone SoC deployment instead of tablets or laptop/desktop but it has yet to happen.

They also said Atom would be the first product on 14nm.

 

[ehume]

If they keep the current naming scheme then Broxton = Atom Z4xx and Apollo Lake = Pentium/Celeron N4xxx. HP Stream uses Celeron N3050, so it could be upgraded to an Apollo Lake part in Q3.

Thank you again. I couldn't find out what the current HP Stream is running, though from what I gather it is Cherry Trail. Apollo Lake is scheduled to use the Goldmont CPU, so if the Stream uses Apollo Lake, it will represent an upgrade and I can use that as an excuse to upgrade. I was hoping this January. Now I "only" have to wait for next January.