The Intel Atom Thread

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witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
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Using Atom in IoT chips makes little sense except for the relatively small higher-end IoT market. For the mass market, you want very small and efficient chips, something x86 isn't good at. Cortex-M cores are what you want

I still stand to my opinion that Atom is completely useless except for low-cost machines with Windows legacy support.
Intel doesn't care about the low-end 50cent chips, don't you know.

Intel's IoT is more than $2B per year, not does have 95% MSS and is growing. In the last few years it has had higher operating margin than their software or NAND group.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Is IoT really growing though (bringing new revenue into the company) or is it just "growing" because other projects are being lumped into the category? Seems like they are missing huge opportunities in things like smart watches, fitness trackers, set-top boxes, and on and on. I also thought ARM and nVidia were making much faster inroads into automobile connectivity and adding new features than Intel. Again, if they cannot come even close to making a competitive chip for a cell phone, how are they going to compete with ARM in the IoT area either. And the outlook seems to have worsened as well with all their struggles with 14nm, while other foundaries continue (at least supposedly) to keep moving forward to smaller and better process nodes.
I take all of this chest beating, from Intel as well as other foundaries, with much reservation, but I think Intel is, or soon will be, losing a significant part of its process lead, which to be honest, I think they have relied too much on in the past.
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
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It's just marketing
But There Shall Be Fifty Billion IoTs.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/...ast-of-50-billion-devices-by-2020-is-outdated

But IoT really means connected to the internet, so that's the "change". So Intel is gunning for 5G + autos (self driving cars). And then maybe there will be a whole lot of other niche applications of things that might have improved functionality with internet connection . The more things that can feed the data center, the happier Intel will be.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
140
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Seems that Intel managed to get to Core 2 Quad 45 nm levels at last... sadly in the moments where software are requiring Nehalem tier cores to work....

Intel could catch up in that side (even more, the performance is near a typical ARM A72 core) if they put some effort on it.
 

Azuma Hazuki

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2012
1,532
866
131
They'd cannibalize their low-mid end if they did that though. Atom could and should be Core m3-level performance, but if it were, no one would buy those overpriced pieces of junk.
 

Nothingness

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2013
3,280
2,334
136
Some Goldmont micro-arch details: http://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=161231&curpostid=161231
Intel Pentium N4200 (Apollo Lake/Goldmont) AIDA64 CPUID dump
Intel Pentium N4200 (Apollo Lake/Goldmont) Instruction latency dump

Airmont vs Goldmont:

Caches:
- L1D: same characteristic (24 KB, 6 way, 3 clk latency), but independent 16B load + 16B store ports instead of 16B shared load/store port (according to REP MOVS* throughput)
- L1I: same characteristic (32 KB, 8 way)
- L2: same characteristic (1 MB / 2 core, 16 way, ??? clk latency)
- 4K DTLB doubled (256 -> 512)

ISA extensions:
- SHA
- CLFLUSHOPT
- RDSEED
- PT
- MPE
- SMAP
- FSGSBASE
- no-VEX required ISA extensions e.g. BMI, AVX, F16C

Integer:
- Triple decode, triple issue. Goldmont can sustain 3 basic ALU instruction (MOV, ADD, SUB, CMP, TEST, AND, OR, XOR, NEG, NOT, NOP) per clock
- MOV ellimination works for 32 and 64 bit GPR
- ~2.5x faster 64b IDIV (107 -> 44)
- 2 operand write (I)MUL (7 -> 6)
- REP MOVS 16 -> 32 B/clk peak
- CRC32 6|6 -> 3|1

vector fp:
- Out-of-Order(*), fully pipelined, SP-DP L|T symmetrical
- NOV ellimination works for MOVA|UPS|D
- ADDPS 3|1 -> 3|1
- MULPS 5|2 -> 4|1
- ADDPD 4|2 -> 3|1
- MULPD 7|4 -> 4|1
- shuffle, pack 1|1 -> 1|0.5
- CVT*, EXTRACT*, INSERT* fully pipelined

vector int:
- NOV ellimination works for MOVDQA|U
- shuffle, pack, shift, PMOV* 1|1 -> 1|0.5
- PSHUFB: 5|5 -> 1|1
- Quadword add/sub 4|4-> 2|1
- PMUL* 5|2 -> 4|1
- AESENC/DEC 9|5 -> 6|2

HW SHA instrucions:
SHA1RNDS4 5|2
SHA1NEXTE 3|1
SHA1MSG1 3|1
SHA1MSG2 3|1
SHA256RNDS2 8|4
SHA256MSG1 3|1
SHA256MSG2 3|1

x87:
- FXCH doesn't block
- some uCode faster

ROB size:
- 48 -> ???

Intel removed the 6W TDP Apollo Lake parts from ark.intel.com database (Pentium N4200, Celeron N3450, N3350)

AFAIK Intel Denverton server (Atom C3xxx) and probably Knights Mill and Knights Hill will be based on this core

(*)Current form of the instruction latency dump doesn't implicate the OoO property, but I've seen a written statement about this from an Intel engineer

I hope later I can provide the computing evidence of OoO FPU, L2 latency and ROB size
The three decoders explain a lot of the improved performance.
 
Reactions: Sweepr

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,143
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Last edited:

Face2Face

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2001
4,100
215
106
That GB4 score looks pretty good to me. Pretty close to my Core m3-6Y30 scores:

Single-Core Score
1995
Multi-Core Score
3787

I'm hoping graphics performance is up quite a bit vs. Braswell. As it stands the HD 515 in the Core m3 walks all over Braswell's HD 405 GPU. I own both a Braswell NUC and a m3 compute stick, so I've been doing some game comparisons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0OxNqpVbQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ygXM7-T-nk
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,143
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By the way, some new scores for Apollo Lake @ Geekbench 4:

- Celeron N3350 @ 1.10 GHz (2C/2T):
SC: 1556
MC: 2722

https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/548293

~50% faster multi-core score than current Celeron N3350 @ 1.10 GHz. Good news for future Chromebooks.

- Pentium N4200 @ 1.10 GHz (4C/4T):
SC: 1567
MC: 4433

https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/567708

Some reviewers already have the notebooks so I hope we get something better than GB soon.
 

Face2Face

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2001
4,100
215
106
So I just got my Cherry Trail Intel compute stick in and I've been doing some testing. The model I got has the newer X5-Z8330 instead of the X5- Z8300. Just doing some gaming benchmarks test comparisons and I noticed the power consumption on this model is very high...The CPU/GPU package alone is pulling in upwards of 9w. That doesn't include the memory, USB ports, or anything else. The Core m3 compute stick I have is only using 6w on the package and 10w in total in the same scenario. I have to compare it to my N3700 NUC, but man.. seems A bit piggish. Good thing is the GPU clock stays pegged at 500MHz, and all four cores hover around the 1500-1700MHz mark. Performance is scary close to the N3700, which has four more EUs and a higher clocking CPU.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Poor Atom core team. Goldmont looks like a good core with a lot of potential, but the SoC teams really blew it in getting it to market when it was supposed to. Sad.
 
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dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
140
106
Ok, I revive the thread, but this time about Intel SOFIA.

Recently I got an Intel SOFIA Based tablet and decided to do a Benchmark with Geekbench 4 and here is the results compared to the competition.

https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609232
MEDIACOM M-MPI7A3G (Tablet) - Intel SOFIA 1.05 GHZ Quad Core
Single Thread: 371
Multi Thread: 828

Antutu 6.2.1 - 18879 - And even it didn't run the Space 3D bechmark
--------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/82703
Lenovo A 2010 - ARM A53 1.0 Ghz - Quad Core
Single Thread: 457
Multi Thread: 1221
--------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609236
Moto G 1st Gen - ARM A7 1.2 Ghz - Quad Core
Single Thread: 433
Multi Thread: 1093
-------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609226
CUSTOM OCed Xperia L - Krait 1.7 Ghz - Dual Core
Single Thread: 590
Multi Thread: 914
Antutu 6.2.1 - 24315
------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609204
Xiaomi Redmi Note 2 - ARM A53 2.0 Ghz - Octo Core.
Single Thread: 798
Multi Thread: 3139
Antutu 6.2.1 - 45463
-------------------

In few words, SOFIA sucks a LOT CPU wise.... is even worse than the worst phone which is the Lenovo A2010 manages to outperform it!
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Ok, I revive the thread, but this time about Intel SOFIA.

Recently I got an Intel SOFIA Based tablet and decided to do a Benchmark with Geekbench 4 and here is the results compared to the competition.

https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609232
MEDIACOM M-MPI7A3G (Tablet) - Intel SOFIA 1.05 GHZ Quad Core
Single Thread: 371
Multi Thread: 828

Antutu 6.2.1 - 18879 - And even it didn't run the Space 3D bechmark
--------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/82703
Lenovo A 2010 - ARM A53 1.0 Ghz - Quad Core
Single Thread: 457
Multi Thread: 1221
--------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609236
Moto G 1st Gen - ARM A7 1.2 Ghz - Quad Core
Single Thread: 433
Multi Thread: 1093
-------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609226
CUSTOM OCed Xperia L - Krait 1.7 Ghz - Dual Core
Single Thread:
590
Multi Thread: 914
Antutu 6.2.1 - 24315
------------------
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/609204
Xiaomi Redmi Note 2 - ARM A53 2.0 Ghz - Octo Core.
Single Thread: 798
Multi Thread: 3139
Antutu 6.2.1 - 45463
-------------------

In few words, SOFIA sucks a LOT CPU wise.... is even worse than the worst phone which is the Lenovo A2010 manages to outperform it!

Wow yeah, SOFIA is kind of terrible. No value prop to this SoC compared to a cheap ARM A53 based SoC and probably more expensive to make. What a terrible showing.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
140
106
Wow yeah, SOFIA is kind of terrible. No value prop to this SoC compared to a cheap ARM A53 based SoC and probably more expensive to make. What a terrible showing.
Even ARM A7 defeats SoFIA... what the hell Intel tought on going that way instead of continuing with Broxton?
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
16,027
6,490
136
By the way, some new scores for Apollo Lake @ Geekbench 4:

- Celeron N3350 @ 1.10 GHz (2C/2T):
SC: 1556
MC: 2722

https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/548293

~50% faster multi-core score than current Celeron N3350 @ 1.10 GHz. Good news for future Chromebooks.

- Pentium N4200 @ 1.10 GHz (4C/4T):
SC: 1567
MC: 4433

https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/567708

Some reviewers already have the notebooks so I hope we get something better than GB soon.

TBH I kind of wish it was closer to 2000, esp given the 6W TDP. The 7y30 is like 3000/5600 albeit at 7+ W.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,143
136
EXCLUSIVE: ASRock's Apollo Lake motherboards



The range comprises two microATX models featuring the Celeron J3355 and J3455, two mini-ITX featuring the very same SoCs, as well as a final mini-ITX model rocking the Pentium J4205. We're hearing that Apollo Lake offers some serious improvement over Braswell and that the J4205 is on par with 1st gen Core M (with HEVC 10-bit decoding on top of it).

✓ J3355M
✓ Dual-Core Celeron J3355 (up to 2.5 GHz)
✓ 2 DIMM slots (Supports DDR3/DDR3L 1866 memory)
✓ 1 PCIe 2.0 x16 (x1 mode)
✓ 2 PCIe 2.0 x1
✓ 2 x USB 3.0 / 2 x USB 2.0
✓ 2 x SATA 3
✓ D-Sub, HDMI, DVI-D

✓ J3455M
✓ Quad-Core Celeron J3455 (up to 2.3 GHz)
✓ 2 DIMM slots (Supports DDR3/DDR3L 1866 memory)
✓ 1 PCIe 2.0 x16 (x1 mode)
✓ 2 PCIe 2.0 x1
✓ 2 x USB 3.0 / 2 x USB 2.0
✓ 2 x SATA 3
✓ D-Sub, HDMI, DVI-D

✓ J3355B-ITX
✓ Dual-Core Celeron J3355 (up to 2.5 GHz)
✓ 2 SO-DIMM slots (Supports DDR3/DDR3L 1866 memory)
✓ 1 PCIe 2.0 x16 (x2 mode)
✓ 3 x USB 3.0 / 1 x USB 2.0
✓ 2 x SATA 3
✓ D-Sub, HDMI

✓ J3455-ITX
✓ Quad-Core Celeron J3455 (up to 2.3 GHz)
✓ 2 SO-DIMM slots (Supports DDR3/DDR3L 1866 memory)
✓ 2 PCIe 2.0 x1 / 1 M.2 (Key E)
✓ 2 x USB 3.0 / 2 x USB 2.0
✓ 4 x SATA 3
✓ D-Sub, HDMI, DVI-D

✓ J4205-ITX
✓ Quad-Core Pentium J4205 (up to 2.6 GHz)
✓ 2 SO-DIMM slots (Supports DDR3/DDR3L 1866 memory)
✓ 2 PCIe 2.0 x1 / 1 M.2 (Key E)
✓ 2 x USB 3.0 / 2 x USB 2.0
✓ 4 x SATA 3
✓ D-Sub, HDMI, DVI-D

www.fanlesstech.com/2016/10/exclusive-asrocks-apollo-lake.html
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
140
106
Keep in mind they are only getting that score by upping the TDP beyond what you could reasonably put in a smartphone. Or a tablet really.
Agreed, but considering that Intel could scale it well down... they could reach ARM A72 levels at 14 nm.

I am sincere, Intel did the WORST mistake eliminating Broxton. They had Asus as a major client and they could get some more like Xiaomi or Acer on their group if they continued in that path.

I would bought an Intel based phone if those had 4 A72 level cores. Broxton managed that levels.... with A57 power consumption.
 
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