The Intel Atom Thread

[Shivansps]

The part you are not getting is that i do not care what Ice Storm gives, on 3dmark you always gona get the best graphic result that the IGP can do, applying that to the real world escenarios requieres that the CPU can support it and there is enoght memory bandwidth to use CPU and IGP at the same time, thats why 3dmark combines GPU and CPU scores to give you a final result.

After that it will depend of what game we are talking about, for example in DOTA 2 you can expect it to perform better on AMD, and Star Craft 2, better on Intel.

Im not sure what is enoght, but by today estandarts, all i know is that E-350 level is not enoght, and dual cores Temash are worse than that. Im unsure about quad cores Temash, Kabini is quite ok, but the problem on Kabini is memory.

 

[monstercameron]

The part you are not getting is that i do not care what Ice Storm gives, on 3dmark you always gona get the best graphic result that the IGP can do, applying that to the real world escenarios requieres that the CPU can support it and there is enoght memory bandwidth to use CPU and IGP at the same time, thats why 3dmark combines GPU and CPU scores to give you a final result.

After that it will depend of what game we are talking about, for example in DOTA 2 you can expect it to perform better on AMD, and Star Craft 2, better on Intel.

Im not sure what is enoght, but by today estandarts, all i know is that E-350 level is not enoght, and dual cores Temash are worse than that. Im unsure about quad cores Temash, Kabini is quite ok, but the problem on Kabini is memory.

64-bit ddr3L 1600Mhz is adequate for this apu, I dont think you understand what purpose these new socs are for. They aren't for console level gaming, they are for the casual gaming and 3d accelerated assist.

 

[Shivansps]

Its a minor improvement over Bobcat to feed 2 more cpu cores and a better igp, and Bobcat was already having problems with memory, is not enoght, try 128-bits. Its so crazy to ask for a 128-bit memory controller by the end of 2013 on a 15W TDP chip?

 

[monstercameron]

Its a minor improvement over Bobcat to feed 2 more cpu cores and a better igp, and Bobcat was already having problems with memory, is not enoght, try 128-bits. Its so crazy to ask for a 128-bit memory controller by the end of 2013 on a 15W TDP chip?

it is a major improvement over bobcat, the a5-5000 doubles cpu and gpu perf, integrated fch and lower power consumption besides, 128 bit wide memory is richland's and core's job not kabini and atom.

 

[Sweepr]

Edit.

 

[Enigmoid]

The part you are not getting is that i do not care what Ice Storm gives, on 3dmark you always gona get the best graphic result that the IGP can do, applying that to the real world escenarios requieres that the CPU can support it and there is enoght memory bandwidth to use CPU and IGP at the same time, thats why 3dmark combines GPU and CPU scores to give you a final result.

After that it will depend of what game we are talking about, for example in DOTA 2 you can expect it to perform better on AMD, and Star Craft 2, better on Intel.

Im not sure what is enoght, but by today estandarts, all i know is that E-350 level is not enoght, and dual cores Temash are worse than that. Im unsure about quad cores Temash, Kabini is quite ok, but the problem on Kabini is memory.

Easily tested.

HD 4000 ~ 2.7x better.

Minecraft

3.6x better

Borderlands 2

2.74x better

Grid 2

2.65x faster.

Looks the same to me on two games. Minecraft is significantly worse than expected. Need larger sample size.

it is a major improvement over bobcat, the a5-5000 doubles cpu and gpu perf, integrated fch and lower power consumption besides, 128 bit wide memory is richland's and core's job not kabini and atom.

AMD has dreams of selling this in servers. Dual channel RAM would certainty help (given how crappy amd's memory controller is-trinity/richland only get ~14 GB/sec with 1600mhz ram vs 19 GB/sec with an i3). It also would not consume any power if it was active for 15/25w chips and deactivated for lower end chips (though would increase die area slightly).

 

[Khato]

things I have learned from apple [a6x]:
make trends
gpu is king, more performance the better
cpus need just enough performance
platform power may be high so let's us a BIG battery

things I learned from nvida [tegra 3]
cpu is king, lets throw 4 of them at the problem
gpu is adequate for "mobile gaming"
platform power is low so oems throw in small batteries

follow apple's suit or go the nvidia[and the intel route]?

There's a saying for this method of reasoning - Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Implying that Apple's success in the market isn't due primarily to the fact that they created it is a logical fallacy. Same goes for implying that tegra 3 saw limited adoption because of anything specific to its design - it had far more to do with the fact that Qualcomm's Snapdragon S4 was the better choice for anything that didn't need four cores, aka basically everything.

 

[Shivansps]

Thats because both the Z3770 and the Ivy ULV on the Surface PRO are enoght on the CPU side to play those games without bottlenecking the IGP, otherwise you will not see that happening.
Also the overal score is in the 2.5x range too.

And the Minecraft is worse probably because of the screen, full screen means its running at 4K on the BT.

 

[insertcarehere]

2 scenarios either that chart is wrong or the results are wrong.
will search for evidence.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8330.92874.0.html

Model	CPU	Memory	Core / Memory	GPU Memory	Value
Satellite C75D-A7286	A4-5000	6144 MB	500 / 667MHz		25773
AMD Kabini Reference	A4-5000	4096 MB	500 / 800MHz	 12.105.0.0	25774
EasyNote LE69KB-45004G50Mnsk	A4-5000	4096 MB	200-500 / MHz	 12.102.1.0	28664
Satellite C50D-A-10E	A4-5000	4096 MB	500 / MHz	Shared Memory bis 2042 MB @4 GB; bis 8186 MB @16 GB	28947
Aspire E1-522-45004G50Mnkk	A4-5000	4096 MB	500 / MHz	shared Memory 12.102.1.0	29641

Notebookcheck has been consistently upping 3dmark ice storm scores in these comparison tables compared to the actual reviews:

Satellite C50D-A-10E: 28947 (comparison),25710 (review)http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Toshiba-Satellite-C50D-A-10E-Notebook.100745.0.html
Satellite C75D-A7286: 25773 (comparison),23764 (review)http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Toshiba-Satellite-C75D-A7286-Notebook.97804.0.html

 

[VengenceIsMine]

.Windows RT? You're joking, right? I don't care if those things cost 200$, they're not worth it because Windows RT is worthless and completely lacks any software ecosystem. It is a far cry from Windows 7/8/8.1 which has all of the software in the world, more than android and iOS combined.
.

While you are right in terms of #'s of apps in a general sense and I agree with you at the 10"+ size with 1 exception, very few of the desktop apps add much value to an 8" tablet, it's just too small for high information density desktop applications, not to mention how small matching keyboards have to be. 8" tablets (& I've held several Win 8 & 8.1 prototypes) work by far the best in the Metro/Modern side even when they are Bay Trail & not Clover Trail or Temash, it is just a limit of the screen size & what works best with touch.

The one caveat to the 10" size for RT being weak is the Nokia, seen it, held it, love it, flipping gorgeous piece of kit. Light, great ergo, very nice screen, speedy in both metro and office, really cool docking flip keyboard & LTE just seals it. Does the one thing a 2-1 needs to do which is excel as a tablet first or you might just as well get an ultrabook. Only thing I wish they would change is 16x10 instead of 16x9.

 

[ShintaiDK]

@mikk - airmont comes out end of Q3. thats almost 6 months

@sweepr - there is rumor that MS is making a 8 inch surface RT device. if that happens, that will take the shine out of these tablets

RT is one of MS biggest disasters and a sale flop. And only the foolish Nokia will attempt to do RT devices. But its a dead OS.

 

[NostaSeronx]

RT is one of MS biggest disasters and a sale flop.

Windows RT has a install size of 16 GBs with all the bloat. 16GB to 64GB is really the only sizes Windows RT devices would support.

Surface RT has a note warning for 32GB models.

 

[seitur]

RT is one of MS biggest disasters and a sale flop. And only the foolish Nokia will attempt to do RT devices. But its a dead OS.

Well Nokia Mobile IS Microsoft now MS just bought them.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Well Nokia Mobile IS Microsoft now MS just bought them.

Just a shame 2 wrongs doesnt make a right

This kinda sys it all:
http://www.techinasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/elop-ballmer-microsoft-nokia-chinese-jokes.jpg

MS should just have cut losses with RT while it was minimal. BT and OEMs will carry x86 to tablets.

 

[USER8000]

64-bit ddr3L 1600Mhz is adequate for this apu, I dont think you understand what purpose these new socs are for. They aren't for console level gaming, they are for the casual gaming and 3d accelerated assist.

Its also a factor of cost too,with the need for a relatively low cost PCB,as even many Bay Trail systems use single channel memory,even the Intel designed NUC.

 

[jpiniero]

BT and OEMs will carry x86 to tablets.

Intel is still too much in bed with MS to be a real threat to ARM at this point.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Intel is still too much in bed with MS to be a real threat to ARM at this point.

Its MS that needs Intel more than the other way around. Samsung and Intel is also behind Tizen.

 

[Nothingness]

I am trying to understand what a part of this document means: http://www.intel.com/newsroom/kits/idf/2013_fall/pdfs/bay_trail_fact_sheet.pdf

Under Business-ready Experience one can read:

Intel will release a version of the SoC with 64-bit support in the first quarter of 2014.

That reads as if current BT aren't 64-bit. What did I miss?

 

[bepo]

There's a lot of speculation about the design choices with regards to CPU vs iGPU and the trade offs.

I think from the power numbers we've seen Intel did a good job of balancing the power draw of the two, not performance. We can all agree that Intel's CPU perf/w is going to be much better than their iGPU perf/w with regards to competition. Does this mean they should boost the iGPU power and thus increase the TDP as well just to balance performance? In my opinion, no. They clearly are attacking this from an efficiency standpoint and have set a TDP/SDP goal to make this efficient for tablets. Whatever CPU and iGPU performance you can squeeze into this power envelope is exactly what you are going to get, nothing more.

I think it would be a poor design choice for Intel to increase iGPU power. In future versions with improvement to the EU's and process used it will be possible to increase the iGPU performance, but right now Baytrail is exactly where Intel wants it.

From a consumers perspective (which I assume is what the majority of AT's readers are) you're free to purchase whatever device fits your needs. Intel is betting that consumers will value CPU performance with modest iGPU performance. Maybe they made the wrong choice, we'll need to wait to find out.

 

[Nothingness]

I am trying to understand what a part of this document means: http://www.intel.com/newsroom/kits/idf/2013_fall/pdfs/bay_trail_fact_sheet.pdf

Under Business-ready Experience one can read:


That reads as if current BT aren't 64-bit. What did I miss?

Went to ARK: http://ark.intel.com/products/76760/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z3770-2M-Cache-up-to-2_39-GHz
This clearly states 64-bit. I guess the above document is just inaccurate.

 

[AtenRa]

I am trying to understand what a part of this document means: http://www.intel.com/newsroom/kits/idf/2013_fall/pdfs/bay_trail_fact_sheet.pdf

Under Business-ready Experience one can read:


That reads as if current BT aren't 64-bit. What did I miss?

Current BayTrail-T is only 32bit

 

[Nothingness]

Current BayTrail-T is only 32bit

That's an old slide and I hope ARK is correct. If that's not the case, I'll wait for next gen.

 

[ShintaiDK]

That's an old slide and I hope ARK is correct. If that's not the case, I'll wait for next gen.

There is no connected standby support on 64bit Windows yet due to MS. I am sure thats where the issue lies.

 

[Nothingness]

There is no connected standby support on 64bit Windows yet due to MS. I am sure thats where the issue lies.

That also was my understanding, but then the Intel document I linked above is wrong. It's a pain Intel doesn't seem to be able to provide cristal clear information about their products

 

[ShintaiDK]

That also was my understanding, but then the Intel document I linked above is wrong. It's a pain Intel doesn't seem to be able to provide cristal clear information about their products

OS upgrades on tablets are usually not possible. So I assume when you first bought a tablet with 32bit Windows, you are stuck with it. Hence the wording.

If you note the old slide you posted as well. You see BT-M/D support 32 and 64bit non CS and only 32bit CS. However it makes no sense to use a non CS supported OS on a tablet aka BT-T.