The Intel Atom Thread

[blackened23]

You should compare the dimensions of the Surface Pro to an iPad mini or Nexus 7. The "thinness" is not the same nor is it anywhere close. The surface pro is substantially thicker.

The surface pro is more of a convertible, which is akin to a small ultrabook. The kabini will not work in a tablet that small (ipad mini size), but it will definitely work in a convertible.

TL'DR : Surface pro = convertible

 

[ShintaiDK]

I dont see why the a6-5200 cant go into a tablet. if the 35-45W i5 can why cant the 18-24W kabini?

What 35-45W i5 do you see in a tablet?

 

[monstercameron]

You should compare the dimensions of the Surface Pro to an iPad mini or Nexus 7. The "thinness" is not the same nor is it anywhere close. The surface pro is substantially thicker.

The surface pro is more of a convertible, which is akin to a small ultrabook. The kabini will not work in a tablet that small, but it will definitely work in a convertible if a manufacturer deems the CPU deficiency as an acceptable trade-off.

TL'DR : Surface pro = convertible

surface pro is a chunky tablet, not a convertible [type-cover doesnt mean laptop] and kabini isnt that slow...a6-5200 gets ~200-300ms in sunspider in IE, and the gpu is on pat with a nvidia gt520m interms of flops [not so much bandwidth] besides, what is stopping the a6-5200 from clocking down to 800mhz for most scenarios? [like a make shift turbo]

 

[ShintaiDK]

surface pro is a chunky tablet, not a convertible [type-cover doesnt mean laptop] and kabini isnt that slow...a6-5200 gets ~200-300ms in sunspider in IE, and the gpu is on pat with a nvidia gt520m interms of flops [not so much bandwidth] besides, what is stopping the a6-5200 from clocking down to 800mhz for most scenarios? [like a make shift turbo]

Even if we imagined the CPU and GPU performance wasnt so poor in relation to the Surface Pro i5 3317U as it is. Then its still a 25W TDP CPU vs the Surface Pro 17W.

 

[blackened23]

The surface pro is twice as thick as typical tablets. You will not ever seen an iPad mini / Nexus 7 size device with a Kabini. Or an Ivy I5 for that matter...To get into a device as thin as an ipad mini you need silicon with super low power consumption. Ivy I5 ULV and Kabini cannot do it. Bay Trail-T can. That's the difference, the BT-T by design works in such devices. Core is almost there but not quite - broadwell may allow i5 and i7 core products to work in even ipad thin devices.

So Kabini will work in convertible devices, that's a pretty good market for it, actually. I'd say on average that Kabini users would rather have a keyboard/trackpad, anyway.

 

[Abwx]

For a tablet though jaguar is limited to 1.0 ghz which isn't going to be pretty.

1.2GHz is enough to be on par integer IPC wise with a 1.46GHz BT
and 1GHz on FP.

 

[ShintaiDK]

1.2GHz is enough to be on par integer IPC wise with a 1.46GHz BT
and 1GHz on FP.

You should tell the benchmarks that:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested/2

Not to mention the GPU clock for AMDs "tablet" Kabini is down to 225Mhz and memory capped at 1066.

 

[monstercameron]

What 35-45W i5 do you see in a tablet?

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/149481-on-the-hunt-for-the-surface-pros-battery-life
^they got ~33W

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Microsoft-Surface-Pro-Tablet.90881.0.html
these guys got 43 stress tested.

 

[monstercameron]

You should tell the benchmarks that:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested/2

Not to mention the GPU clock for AMDs "tablet" Kabini is down to 225Mhz and memory capped at 1066.

idk why you keep posting 225Mhz but the igp is still faster that the z3770's...

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/149481-on-the-hunt-for-the-surface-pros-battery-life
^they got ~33W

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Microsoft-Surface-Pro-Tablet.90881.0.html
these guys got 43 stress tested.

You keep posting false information.

As for device power consumption, the comparison breaks down like this.

 

[ShintaiDK]

idk why you keep posting 225Mhz but the igp is still faster that the z3770's...

Not at 225Mhz. Its slower. There are no benefits of using a Temash tablet CPU. Its slower in CPU, GPU and uses more power.

A4 5000 runs with a 500Mhz clock. A rough scaling puts the 225Mhz Temash in at ~10500. Making BT 30% faster in GPU at almost half the power consumption.

 

[monstercameron]

The surface pro is twice as thick as typical tablets. You will not ever seen an iPad mini / Nexus 7 size device with a Kabini. Or an Ivy I5 for that matter...To get into a device as thin as an ipad mini you need silicon with super low power consumption. Ivy I5 ULV and Kabini cannot do it. Bay Trail-T can. That's the difference, the BT-T by design works in such devices. Core is almost there but not quite - broadwell may allow i5 and i7 core products to work in even ipad thin devices.

So Kabini will work in convertible devices, that's a pretty good market for it, actually. I'd say on average that Kabini users would rather have a keyboard/trackpad, anyway.

fair enough

 

[monstercameron]

Not at 225Mhz. Its slower. There are no benefits of using a Temash tablet CPU. Its slower in CPU, GPU and uses more power.

i'll admit the z3770 quad is faster than the a4-1200 dual cpu but i dug up some numbers a few threads back that shows that even my ancient c-50 got a similar gpu score to the z3770
http://www.3dmark.com/is/187221
12461

 

[ShintaiDK]

i'll admit the z3770 quad is faster than the a4-1200 dual cpu but i dug up some numbers a few threads back that shoes that even my ancient c-50 got a better gpu score...

So you are saying Kabini is worse than Brazos?

 

[Abwx]

You should tell the benchmarks that:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested/2

Not to mention the GPU clock for AMDs "tablet" Kabini is down to 225Mhz and memory capped at 1066.

That s exactly what i said , thoses benches say that :

1.2GHz is enough to be on par integer IPC wise with a 1.46GHz BT
and 1GHz on FP.

Did you read , actualy.???..

 

[monstercameron]

So you are saying Kabini is worse than Brazos?

y u trollin, huh?
temash is faster and more efficient. the a4-1200 has a 3dmark gpu score of ~11920 http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-rejuvenates-mobile-2013may23.aspx

the a4-1250 with 300Mhz gpu

now please stop trolling

 

[Nothingness]

Pssst, I said memory limits, not 4GB.

I was not thinking about you, I just picked the opportunity. Sorry if you took it for you.

 

[mikk]

Yeah, from what I see, 1.4 ghz jaguar is simply too slow to play most games. 1.5 ghz jaguar is better but 2.0 ghz is really needed for the igp to stretch its legs, especially at lower playable settings.

For a tablet though jaguar is limited to 1.0 ghz which isn't going to be pretty.

Exactly. This slide illustrates it nicely: http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AMD-Temash-HD-8000-Performance.jpg

3dmark where the CPU isn't that important Temash pulls away by a factor of 5x from Clovertrail but in a game where the CPU is more important it's just 2,3x faster. GPU from A4-1250 is 33% faster than A4-1200, in this game only 5% because the CPU is a big bottleneck.

 

[Khato]

I was not thinking about you, I just picked the opportunity. Sorry if you took it for you.

No problem - it's a great opportunity to take given how much hoopla many wish to make about the lack of 64 bit support on the software side.

The enthusiast community all too often gets caught up in the theoretical of what's technically best/ideal and loses sight of the practical. 64 bit support would be nice to have since these mobile operating systems will eventually play host to programs that require it/have platforms that are powerful enough to support heavy multitasking, but that's still a year or two away most likely. Faster graphics in Baytrail would be nice for the notebook and desktop parts where it will get beat by AMD's low cost offerings, but it would be wasted in its primary market of tablets where it's fast enough to play current Android games at 1440p no problem.

 

[Enigmoid]

So you are saying Kabini is worse than Brazos?

Kabini at 1.0 ghz (a4-1200) will be worse than a E-350 (1.6 ghz) in gaming performance because it'll be extremely held back by its CPU.

The GPU in kabini was a massive increase, nearly 2x, Unfortunately CPU only increased about 20-25% on an already CPU bottle-necked chip.

 

[Shivansps]

Man, Anadtech should have include Brazos and Temash gaming results in there :S What the point of benchmarking Bordelands 2/GRID 2 if is not compared to direct competition.

All we are doing is just wild guess.

Anyway i found A4-1250 gaming results. (FarCry2-Dirt2)
http://laptopy.benchmark.pl/test-laptopa/hp-pavilion-touchsmart-11.html
Compared to E-350
http://www.wsgf.org/article/amd-fusion-e-350-apu-platform-review-benchmarking

Strong GPU and Weak CPU take you howhere either, thats what dual core Temash are, and is was the problem on Brazos too.

 

[rootheday3]

re the question about thickness earlier... this is sometimes dictated by the component and materials selection (touchscreen layers, gorilla glass vs plastic,..) but cooling does play a role.

Surface Pro used 17W TDP ultrabook skus of Ivybridge, not 35-45W TDP. Parts may burst to higher power levels for a moment, but you can't run @ 35W+ sustained in that form factor or it will overheat.

Regardless, even a 17W sustained thermal load is too much to dissipate passively through the skin, so the Surface Pro has a fan. The thickness of the design is designed to accommodate the fan and related airflow requirements.

Going forward with the ULX skus of Haswell getting down to 4.5W SDP (~8-10W TDP), fanless tablets become possible. These would be notably thinner.

Summary: Thickness does play a role in cooling, but not by increasing the passive heat dissipation - rather it is a question of fan + air channels or fanless. ~4-5W sustained is about the limit for passive/fanless. If your system generates more heat than that, fan is required and that sets a floor for thinness.

 

[ShintaiDK]

y u trollin, huh?
temash is faster and more efficient. the a4-1200 has a 3dmark gpu score of ~11920 http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-rejuvenates-mobile-2013may23.aspx

the a4-1250 with 300Mhz gpu

now please stop trolling

Your own AMD link confirms Temash A4 is slower than BT. And thats with Temash having 2-3x the power consumption of BT. And an appaling CPU performance compared to BT. Even AMDs untrusted PR slides shows it. And the A6 only get that peroformance when docked.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Kabini at 1.0 ghz (a4-1200) will be worse than a E-350 (1.6 ghz) in gaming performance because it'll be extremely held back by its CPU.

The GPU in kabini was a massive increase, nearly 2x, Unfortunately CPU only increased about 20-25% on an already CPU bottle-necked chip.

It was simply to point out the false information. Kabini would have to be slower than Brazos for his statement to be true.

 

[AtenRa]

Not at 225Mhz. Its slower. There are no benefits of using a Temash tablet CPU. Its slower in CPU, GPU and uses more power.

A4 5000 runs with a 500Mhz clock. A rough scaling puts the 225Mhz Temash in at ~10500. Making BT 30% faster in GPU at almost half the power consumption.

This is TOTAL score not Graphics you posted. BT-T Graphics score in Ice Storm is way lower than Temash, A4-1250 (300MHz) is 69% faster. A4-1200(225) will be close to 40-50% faster than the fastest BT-T Z3770.

Same happens in Cloud Gate, A4-1250 is 69% faster than BT-T Z3770