The Intel Atom Thread

[AtenRa]

Facts,

BT-T single thread performance at 2.4GHz Turbo = Jaguar at 1.5GHz
BT-T Graphics performance at Turbo = less than Jaguar at 300MHz

 

[ShintaiDK]

This is TOTAL score not Graphics you posted. BT-T Graphics score in Ice Storm is way lower than Temash, A4-1250 (300MHz) is 69% faster. A4-1200(225) will be close to 40-50% faster than the fastest BT-T Z3770.



Same happens in Cloud Gate, A4-1250 is 69% faster than BT-T Z3770

I doubt those benchmarks are correct. Unless you state that AMDs own benchmarks are incorrect. Not to mention Anandtech.

There is a reason why close to nobody uses Temash. Yet everyone is queued up for BT.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Facts,

BT-T single thread performance at 2.4GHz Turbo = Jaguar at 1.5GHz
BT-T Graphics performance at Turbo = less than Jaguar at 300MHz

Nope. AMDs own benchmarks and Anandtech confirms BT is better

 

[AtenRa]

I doubt those benchmarks are correct.

Why ?? because they show Temash being almost 70% faster than BT-T in Graphics performance ??

Unless you state that AMDs own benchmarks are incorrect. Not to mention Anandtech.

AMD and Anandtech only used Total scores, im showing you Graphics score.

There is a reason why close to nobody uses Temash. Yet everyone is queued up for BT.

Marketing, sales etc has nothing to do with Graphics performance of Temash.

 

[AtenRa]

Nope. AMDs own benchmarks and Anandtech confirms BT is better

Again, AMD and Anandtech only used Total scores.

 

[Shivansps]

Temash was in fact very good before BT showed up, Temash dual core is a bit slower than E-350, Quad core are faster and both of them have better graphics.

A A4-1250(the slower one except for the tablets) was supposed to have similar performance to E-350 and Temash is reemplacing AMD C-Series, not E-Series, the step up was logical, and the A4-1200 could beat the crap out of a Clovertrail.
And Kabini being the AMD E-Series reemplacement, the step up in performance was just, awesome.

Now the problem is, BT ended up to be way better than expected, even on graphics, the A4-1200 is useless now, the A4-1250 has similar gaming performance to E-350 and BT-T may end on the same level or more, with lot better CPU power (stop quoting 3dmark graphics scores please! those APU are cpu limited!).
BT-T already won the battle.

Temash Quad Core And Kabini are going to compite with BT-M, BT-D and Haswell-Y.
And there is a hard battle right there.

 

[SiliconWars]

Bay Trail T will not be better than the E-350 or the A4-1200 in gaming. If the Z3770 manages a tiny win because of a superior cpu, everything below it will still lose.

 

[beginner99]

There is a reason why close to nobody uses Temash. Yet everyone is queued up for BT.

AMD and Anandtech only used Total scores, im showing you Graphics score.

Marketing, sales etc has nothing to do with Graphics performance of Temash.

Yes but it proofs that graphics is more or less irrelevant if it is "good enough" in contrast to CPU performance and power consumption, the area where AMD generally sucks.

 

[monstercameron]

Yes but it proofs that graphics is more or less irrelevant if it is "good enough" in contrast to CPU performance and power consumption, the area where AMD generally sucks.

I don't buy this argument, for the past couple of years, the most influencial tech company has been doubling gpu instead of cpu perf with every release. I trust the their engineers believe that gpu will lead to a better experience. in that case Intel sucks save for iris...

 

[Abwx]

Bay Trail T will not be better than the E-350 or the A4-1200 in gaming. If the Z3770 manages a tiny win because of a superior cpu, everything below it will still lose.

Once the GPU kicks in the CPU will have less power
available and less TDP allocated while the good CPU
perf is possible only at over 2Ghz when GPU is iddle
and that the CPU can use all available TDP.

Worse , once the device is heated ,wich is the case with games,
the device will have to seriously throttle back to its base frequency ,
in that case 1.46 , most of the time.

 

[Broheim]

I don't get why you people are so hung up on gaming performance. These chips are meant for the tablet form factor (cheap tablets at that) not gaming rigs, they're going to be playing Candy crush not Crysis. Neither the intel nor the AMD chips are going bring any pc gaming performance to the table that is worth mentioning, because other things matter a whole lot more in this market.

 

[AtenRa]

BT-T will not have higher CPU performance running games. As said before, TDP and Power/Electrical management will not allow it to Turbo at 2.4GHz in every application. Dont forget that it can only turbo at 2.4GHz only when it closes GPU parts, and that will not happen in Games.

So to put it to rest, BT-T has less GPU performance than Temash and CPU performance is not that higher while Gaming.

Also, we havent seen any direct comparison between the two in real Windows games so it is better to wait for more results in Q4 when actual BT and Temash tablets will be released.

 

[AtenRa]

I don't get why you people are so hung up on gaming performance. These chips are meant for the tablet form factor (cheap tablets at that) not gaming rigs, they're going to be playing Candy crush not Crysis. Neither the intel nor the AMD chips are going bring any pc gaming performance to the table that is worth mentioning, because other things matter a whole lot more in this market.

By the same logic, higher CPU performance for Internet browsing is not required, even a 1GHz dual core Arm CPU is adequate for the task.

Also, why everyone doubles GPU performance every two years ??? just because they can ???

 

[insertcarehere]

Again, AMD and Anandtech only used Total scores.

Which, considering that we are testing the APUs as a whole and not just as individual components, matters the most. You can't separate the cpu and gpu in comparisons such as this. It's not possible to compensate the relative weakness in cpu for kabini by just putting in stronger cpus in the same way it is not possible to just put in a stronger gpu to compensate for Bay Trail's realtively not as good graphics.

Bay Trail T will not be better than the E-350 or the A4-1200 in gaming. If the Z3770 manages a tiny win because of a superior cpu, everything below it will still lose.

In any memory bandwidth limited scenario, there are many cases where Bay trail will be better than both.

 

[monstercameron]

with all that said, I want to get my hand on one of these tablets...windows on an 8" tab sounds good to me. If only these existed in the umpc era...viliv, umid and co. would still be around...sigh

 

[Sweepr]

BT-T will not have higher CPU performance running games.

Facts: Bay Trail-T has >3x higher MT CPU performance than an A4 1200. It will smoke a slow 2C 1GHz Jaguar even while gaming (and this CPU performance advantage will negate any small GPU advantage AMD has to offer with similar power comsumption when gaming).

 

[blackened23]

I don't get why you people are so hung up on gaming performance. These chips are meant for the tablet form factor (cheap tablets at that) not gaming rigs, they're going to be playing Candy crush not Crysis. Neither the intel nor the AMD chips are going bring any pc gaming performance to the table that is worth mentioning, because other things matter a whole lot more in this market.

Yeah. It's pretty hilarious. The mindset here is that every device 100$ and up is for playing crysis 3, even in a 2W tablet.

 

[beginner99]

By the same logic, higher CPU performance for Internet browsing is not required, even a 1GHz dual core Arm CPU is adequate for the task.

No it isn't because complex web pages render noticeable faster on say a 3 ghz haswell than the 1 ghz ARM. And that's what most people do.

 

[USER8000]

No it isn't because complex web pages render noticeable faster on say a 3 ghz haswell than the 1 ghz ARM. And that's what most people do.

Looking at what most people do,is that they buy tablets which look nice and are either cheap,or have good branding on them or are easy to use.

Apple made tens of billions of dollars on selling iPad and iPad2 tablets,when Atom based netbooks had faster CPUs. Nobody seemed to care who made the CPU TBH.

Here is an example:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3640/apples-ipad-the-anandtech-review/17

The Atom N450 obliterated the SOC in the original iPad in most benchmarks,and even battery life was not massively poorer either,but most people did not care it seems.

Most people don't even look at benchmarks of the CPUs in their computers it seems.

 

[mikk]

Facts,

BT-T single thread performance at 2.4GHz Turbo = Jaguar at 1.5GHz

This is inaccacurate. Singlethread performance on Z3770 is 10-20% above the A4-5000 and also we don't know if it run with 2,4 Ghz. Legitreviews told it run with 2,24 Ghz in most tasks.

Why ?? because they show Temash being almost 70% faster than BT-T in Graphics performance ??

The difference between A4-1250 and A4-5000 appears to be too small. 66,7% higher GPU frequency results in a 25,7% higher score. This is doubtful.

 

[Broheim]

By the same logic, higher CPU performance for Internet browsing is not required, even a 1GHz dual core Arm CPU is adequate for the task.

Also, why everyone doubles GPU performance every two years ??? just because they can ???

the main reason? gotta keep selling chips, if the market goes stale so would sales.

they aren't just doubling GPU performance, they are doing the same to the CPU. The SoC companies need performance to move forward in order to move the market forward, but taking a 8086 and bolting a titan class gpu to it would be a terrible way to go about it, a balance has has to be struck.
Intel isn't sitting on their collective behinds here, they're also going to be moving both GPU and CPU performance forward in this segment (as we see they clearly did with BT) but where Intel has the advantage is that if someone were to start huffing about the performance crown, they can just slide a haswell tablet across the table and tell them to "come at me bro". Different horses for different courses and all that.

Bay trail is perfectly designed for the market during its lifetime, I haven't seen any reviews of temash tablets yet so I can't say if they got it right overall. The GPU is better, but the GPU is just one small part of the SoC (or APU).

 

[raghu78]

BT-T will not have higher CPU performance running games. As said before, TDP and Power/Electrical management will not allow it to Turbo at 2.4GHz in every application. Dont forget that it can only turbo at 2.4GHz only when it closes GPU parts, and that will not happen in Games.

So to put it to rest, BT-T has less GPU performance than Temash and CPU performance is not that higher while Gaming.

Also, we havent seen any direct comparison between the two in real Windows games so it is better to wait for more results in Q4 when actual BT and Temash tablets will be released.

true. baytrail looks impressive because of its super aggressive turbo which allows the CPU to run at 2.4 Ghz when GPU is slightly loaded. Baytrail's FP performance in cinebench R11.5 shows a 2.4 Ghz single thread matching Jaguar 1.5 Ghz. whats equally impressive is even in multi threaded cinebench R11.5 baytrail is running close to 2.4 Ghz by using up the GPU's power budget.

so Baytrail 2.4 Ghz FP IPC = Jaguar 1.5 Ghz FP IPC
Baytrail INT IPC = Jaguar INT IPC at same clocks.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested/2

In games the cpu cannot turbo to 2.4 ghz as the GPU will be fully loaded. I expect AMD to ready a new stepping with improved turbo and power management as Temash and Kabini are capable of doing much better with an aggressive turbo. We might see such new SKUs as early as CES 2014.

I would love to see a Temash quad core with better Turbo fight it out against a Baytrail quad core. Without a doubt the AMD Temash should do much better at GPU. What needs to be seen is can AMD get their CPU performance up in normal apps which load the GPU lightly.

 

[Abwx]

Baytrail INT IPC = Jaguar INT IPC at same clocks.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested/2

Wrong , BT works close to 2.4GHz in MThreaded integer tasks
according to the very link you posted , hence optimistic or
wishfull misleading arguments..

Jaguar has 25% better integer IPC.

 

[raghu78]

Wrong , BT works close to 2.4GHz in MThreaded integer tasks
according to the very link you posted , hence optimistic or
wishfull misleading arguments..

Jaguar has 25% better integer IPC.

Maybe Jaguar is better in INT IPC. there is a 60% higher clock for Baytrail and its 25 - 30% faster in INT workloads. we know perf never scales perfectly with higher clocks. but still Jaguar can scale close to 40 - 50%. so yeah I wouldn't be surprised if Jaguar has 20% faster INT IPC.

The problem is Temash and Kabini are struggling due to a weak Turbo. AMD needs to get better Turbo clocks especially for 1 - 2 threads. for 3 -4 threads AMD cannot do much as the power starts increasing exponentially. So 2 Ghz for 1 - 2 cores with Temash would be competitive. for 3 -4 cores AMD needs to try and see if they can hit 1.4 - 1.5 Ghz with better power management and better binning.

 

[beginner99]

I don't buy this argument, for the past couple of years, the most influencial tech company has been doubling gpu instead of cpu perf with every release. I trust the their engineers believe that gpu will lead to a better experience. in that case Intel sucks save for iris...

Thats was for mobile mainly. Now they can charge more per chip and amd and nv loose out on discrete low-end sales. hence intel gets a bigger piece of the total revenue from any laptop sold.

Personally I would rather have a hex or octo core haswell without iGPU than the current quads with it simply because I do not need it on my desktop.