The Intel Atom Thread

[Sweepr]

Sony unveils Bay Trail based VAIO Flip 11A convertible; arrives in February for $799

...Like its big siblings, the 11A has a 1080p screen that can flip back so that the display is facing away from the keyboard (yep, sort of like the Dell XPS 12). Speaking of the screen, this too uses Sony's Triluminos color-reproduction technology, which first made its debut on the company's Bravia televisions. All told, though, it might make more sense to compare the Flip 11 not to the bigger Flips, but to the VAIO Tap 11, Sony's first Windows 8 tablet. Both have 8-megapixel cameras using Sony's Exmor imaging technology, and both have an N-trig digitizer allowing for pressure-sensitive pen input. Also, both start around $800, which means you can expect similar specs on the inside, too. In this case, that means a quad-core Bay Trail (Pentium) CPU to start, though if you wanted, you could go all the way up to a Core i7 chip instead.

www.engadget.com/gallery/sony-vaio-flip-11a-hands-on/2134975/#!slide=2134975

CES 2014 Hands On: www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7AQhZZsoIk

Powered by Bay Trail-M, 2.16GHz quad-core Pentium N3520.

 

[erunion]

I appreciate you updating this thread, sweepr.
(and everyone else, too)

 

[Ajay]

Wow, I amazed at the prices OEMs are getting for BT based tablets. I'd expect around $800 or so to start seeing a ULV Haswell.

 

[Sweepr]

Fuhu DreamTab Hands-on: Bay Trail-T based Premium Kids Tablet (running Android ''Kit Kat'')

When we first heard about the Fuhu DreamTab, thoughts of a glorified Kung Fu Panda tie-in came to mind. We were wrong, and we should have known better because the Fuhu Nabi 2 is already one of our favorite kids tablets. For its new Atom Bay Trail-powered 8-inch and 10-inch slates (on sale this spring), Fuhu and Dreamworks teamed up on everything from the design and packaging to the apps, giving the Kindle Fire HDX a serious run for its money.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/fuhu-dreamtab-hands-on
http://liliputing.com/2014/01/closer-look-fuhus-dreamtab-tablets-kids.html

First time we see a retail Bay Trail-T based tablet running Android.
Nice specs, we are looking at Z3740 powering Full HD IPS 8'' and 12'' screens, Android 4.4 ''Kit Kat'' for less than $300 (8'' model)! Yes, its a kids tablet but definitely gives an idea of the competitive pricing possible with Bay Trail-T and Android. In comparison, the cheapest (and only) 1080p 8'' tablet running Bay Trail-T and x86 Windows is the $400 Lenovo Thinkpad 8.

 

[AtenRa]

$300 for a 8" android tablet is not competitive against ARM Quad Cores. Even in EU you can find Quad Core 1.8GHz ARM 8" Tablets for less than 160 Euros.

I dont see how Intel will compete against all those sub $200 ARM Quads.

 

[NTMBK]

$300 for a 8" android tablet is not competitive against ARM Quad Cores. Even in EU you can find Quad Core 1.8GHz ARM 8" Tablets for less than 160 Euros.

I dont see how Intel will compete against all those sub $200 ARM Quads.

Most of those cheap Chinese quads will perform like Clover Trail...

 

[Sweepr]

Most of those cheap Chinese quads will perform like Clover Trail...

Yep. Z3740 easily outperforms what you will find in most of these tablets. If they can deliver 8'' 1080p Android ''Kit Kat'' tablets running this chips for less than $300 then we can easily call them price competitive with popular ARM tablets like the S4 Pro based $229-269 2013 Nexus 7.

Reduce Z3770 CPU scores by 1/4 and you have ~Z3740 performance, way better than S4 Pro (using 2013 Nexus 7 as an example of <$300 Android tablet).

Even iGPU performance (arguably BT-T's weakest spot) goes up:

There was a rumour a few pages back that the next Nexus 7 could use Intel chips (probably Bay Trail-T).

 

[SPBHM]

$300 for a 8" android tablet is not competitive against ARM Quad Cores. Even in EU you can find Quad Core 1.8GHz ARM 8" Tablets for less than 160 Euros.

I dont see how Intel will compete against all those sub $200 ARM Quads.

quad core doesn't mean much, it's not an indication of how fast these cores can be, the best ARM SoC at the moment is a Dual Core I think.

 

[Sweepr]

I appreciate you updating this thread, sweepr.
(and everyone else, too)

yes, id like to thank you as well sweepr.

Thank you. Never expected we would come this far but thanks to many users we had some very interesting discussions for months here. I feel like this thread belongs to the CPUs and Overclocking forum (not a single user) now and I will certainly keep updating it.

 

[liahos1]

yes, id like to thank you as well sweepr.

 

[AtenRa]

Most of those cheap Chinese quads will perform like Clover Trail...

And they are still more than half the price lower than $300 BayTrail.

 

[Sweepr]

And they are still more than half the price lower than $300 BayTrail.

If you look closely you will notice they mention less than $300, and somehow I doubt any of those $150 tablets you are talking about have a Full HD IPS screen.

Also (in case you missed) Intel will launch a new entry-level (yes, even cheaper) Bay Trail-T part this quarter aiming for $99-149 Android tablets:

Intel will launch entry-level Android-supporting Bay Trail (Z3735D series) specifically for use in 7-inch tablets priced at US$99-129 and 7- to 8-inch models at US$149-199 in first-quarter 2014, the sources said.

 

[AtenRa]

quad core doesn't mean much, it's not an indication of how fast these cores can be, the best ARM SoC at the moment is a Dual Core I think.

Do you actually believe that people buying a sub $200 QUAD Core ARM Tablet care if BayTrail at $300 has more performance in Browsing ??? I have a dual core 1.6GHz 8" IPS sub $200 tablet that can do 99% of that $300 BayTrail tablet.
The first thing people see in a tablet this days is the price and the panel. Performance is third or even forth in the hierarchy.(apple buyers are excluded, they care about higher price first )

 

[AtenRa]

If you look closely you will notice they mention less than $300, and somehow I doubt any of those $150 tablets you are talking about have a Full HD IPS screen.

Also (in case you missed) Intel will launch a new cheaper (yes, even cheaper) Bay Trail-T part this quarter aiming for $99-149 Android tablets:

As i said, only a handful of enthusiasts care about performance and full HD in a 8" tablet, the big majority only cares about price first.

There are already 7" Quads at $99, another Intel tablet in the billions will not do any difference.

 

[Sweepr]

Amazing. ''Intel can't touch cheap <$200 tablets'' changed to ''nobody cares about Intel in cheap tablets'' in a heartbeat after the first argument was dismissed.

Important thing is, they are trying to cover as many market segments as they can, and they need to if they intend to break into a solid ARM Android ecosystem.

 

[AtenRa]

Amazing. ''Intel can't touch cheap <$200 tablets'' changed to ''nobody cares about Intel in cheap tablets'' in a heartbeat after the first argument was dismissed.

There is no sub $200 Intel Tablet yet, when they will be available we can talk about them and the market at that time.

Important thing is, they are trying to cover as many market segments as they can, and they need to if they intend to break into a solid ARM Android ecosystem.

From what i can see, they trying to compete in a low margin heavily competitive Tablet market and as of now they dont succeed. They will spend one billion in 2014 and count my words, they will need to spend more in 2015 to keep the OEMs make Intel Tablets.

They are simple too big, slowly moving company to enter a low margin battle with all those cheap ARM manufactures. I will give them another 2-3 years and see what will happen when ARM will use GloFo 14XM and TSMC 16nm FinFets.

 

[Sweepr]

There is no sub $200 Intel Tablet yet, when they will be available we can talk about them and the market at that time.

Hmm let me help you with this. Yes there are, and you can buy them right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-16-.../dp/B00FFVYSE8
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-32-...s=intel+tablet
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-16-...s=intel+tablet
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-CAP15ECS...s=intel+tablet
http://www.amazon.com/Tablet-Intel-C...s=intel+tablet

Bay Trail is coming to Android tablets this quarter, so (unsurprisingly) none of them is Bay Trail based yet but I bet there will be lots of cheapo Z3735D tablets pretty soon.

 

[Homeles]

16/14nm will have to go up against an extremely dense 10nm process, which will likely debut 450mm wafers. In addition, there's a good chance that improved channel materials, like SiGe or Ge, replace silicon at the 10nm node.

I simply don't see the other fabs catching up to Intel -- they're only going to fall further behind.

In the end though, it doesn't really matter. Everyone's profiting. Consumers are getting better devices for less. 16/14nm FinFETs will lead to some incredible devices, as will Intel's 14nm and 10nm.

 

[AtenRa]

Hmm let me help you with this. Yes there are, and you can buy them right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-16-.../dp/B00FFVYSE8
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-32-...s=intel+tablet
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Venue-16-...s=intel+tablet
2
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-CAP15ECS...s=intel+tablet
http://www.amazon.com/Tablet-Intel-C...s=intel+tablet

Bay Trail is coming to Android tablets this quarter, so (unsurprisingly) none of them is Bay Trail based yet but I bet there will be lots of cheapo Z3735D tablets pretty soon.

I was referring to sub $200 BayTrail tablets.

 

[Sweepr]

Not sure how can you expect <$200 Bay Trail-T tablets today if Bay Trail hasn't debuted on Android yet and Intel has yet to launch entry-level model(s) like the Z3735D that should put cheapo Clover Trail parts to rest later this quarter. Strange logic.

If the new entry-level models are quad-cores (even with reduced clock) and somewhat still maintain the S600-like levels of GPU performance then there should be a wave of very tempting $99-199 Android tablets soon.

 

[witeken]

From what i can see, they trying to compete in a low margin heavily competitive Tablet market and as of now they dont succeed. They will spend one billion in 2014 and count my words, they will need to spend more in 2015 to keep the OEMs make Intel Tablets.

Bay Trail / Silvermont is their first serious ultra mobile product, and is already very good. It has the best performance and power consumption. In the next iteration, the GPU will also become the best. Their fabs give Intel the highest possible margin. Bay Trail is ~100mm², Broxton will be ~58mm² and 37% cheaper. The tablet and smartphone space won't be low margin forever. When Intel will have 80% of that space, what do you think that will happen with the prices . That's what they will do. Get high market share, improve profitability.

They are simple too big, slowly moving company to enter a low margin battle with all those cheap ARM manufactures. I will give them another 2-3 years and see what will happen when ARM will use GloFo 14XM and TSMC 16nm FinFets.

Around that time, Intel will be the only company using 10, 7 or 5nm transistors (with 450mm wafers that will reduce costs even further) with far superior materials than silicon, that will give up to 10x lower power consumption. A notebook CPU will suddenly have a tablet or smartphone power consumption.

 

[kimmel]

I was referring to sub $200 BayTrail tablets.

Keep on moving those goalposts.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-7-Table...-Bean/27618120

In addition to the ones listed above, also a 99$ tablet with Intel inside, but it doesn't matter because it's not Baytrail.

edit: I want a Snapdragon 800 for 99$ too. No? I guess Qcom is doomed.

 

[Qwertilot]

Actually just about the one sure thing with ARMs business model is that you'll never manage to ramp margins up terribly much for this sort of chip. Especially with the cheap stuff in mid/lower end devices like the MotoG etc already seemingly being 'good enough'.

Its a bit nihilistic and all but in many ways ARM essentially exist to let device makers destroy the margins in the CPU market.

I'm sure everyone will survive nicely mind. All making nigh on record profits, no?

 

[AtenRa]

Bay Trail / Silvermont is their first serious ultra mobile product, and is already very good. It has the best performance and power consumption. In the next iteration, the GPU will also become the best. Their fabs give Intel the highest possible margin. Bay Trail is ~100mm², Broxton will be ~58mm² and 37% cheaper. The tablet and smartphone space won't be low margin forever. When Intel will have 80% of that space, what do you think that will happen with the prices . That's what they will do. Get high market share, improve profitability.

Broxton is a 2015 14nm SoC, in the same timeframe ARM will be on 20nm and even perhaps 16nm TSMC and 14XM GloFo. So both ATOM and ARM will see a die size reduction.

Intel will never have that much of the Tablet/phone market as it did in x86. The landscape is completely different with companies(Qualcomm, NVIDIA, SAMSUNG etc) that have both money, technology and healthy Fabs(TSMC, GloFo, Samsung) to produce their products.

Around that time, Intel will be the only company using 10, 7 or 5nm transistors (with 450mm wafers that will reduce costs even further) with far superior materials than silicon, that will give up to 10x lower power consumption. A notebook CPU will suddenly have a tablet or smartphone power consumption.

Intel will not have 10nm until sometime in 2016-2017. Intel 14nm products will only start to be available in late 2014. Also, a lot of ARM designers will skip 20nm and go straight to 16nm and 14XM FinFets in 2015.

 

[AtenRa]

Keep on moving those goalposts.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-7-Table...-Bean/27618120

In addition to the ones listed above, also a 99$ tablet with Intel inside, but it doesn't matter because it's not Baytrail.

edit: I want a Snapdragon 800 for 99$ too. No? I guess Qcom is doomed.

Non BayTrail ATOMs have no performance/battery advantage over cheaper ARM tablets. There is absolutely no reason to buy a non Baytrail tablet if you can find a cheaper ARM that will have even better battery life than the 32nm ATOM