The Intel Atom Thread

[Enigmoid]

To me seems like a massive win. Blows kabini completely out of the water for windows (kabini requires more power for similar performance and kabini's GPU doesn't help it as its still too slow to play more demanding 3d games such as tomb raider, skyrim, etc). If you think baytrail is a poor fit for a tablet then kabini isn't even in the running.

CPU wise baytrail is amazing, especially as it seems to consume a similar amount of power as clovertrail. GPU drivers aren't finished yet and I expect when it releases to be at least 10% better (especially as reviewers have noticed that the situation under android is still a little buggy).

GPU performance is okay. Its not the best but it should be fully sufficient for any task the average user tries to throw at it.

 

[blackened23]

Looks pretty good. You know what would be great? If it was cheap lol. But it won't be. We all know it won't be.

How do you figure? Dell specializes in low cost stuff, they have Haswell laptops at the 500-600$ mark every other week on slickdeals. Dell is not an Apple. They sell tons of low cost stuff, it's probably the largest portion of their sales (eg inspiron, low end stuff). Of course, unlike Apple, Dell has a lot of low quality stuff as well (although their high end XPS line and business products are VERY good). So I have mixed feelings about Dell. Their product gamut ranges from garbage (inspiron) to great (XPS, business oriented products) with not much in between. Where this tablet ends up remains to be seen.

Anyway, I'd say the Dell tablet will be 300$ if that. The lion's portion of the cost will be the Windows license, which is just unfortunate - MS needs to share the burden if getting Windows 8.1 on tablets (RT is NOT the answer) and lowering licensing costs for tablet form factors.

Or they could do an android Bay Trail tablet. Shrug. I don't believe it will be expensive - most of their stuff is cheap outside of their premium lines (XPS, alienware, and business oriented PCs).

 

[SiliconWars]

To me seems like a massive win. Blows kabini completely out of the water for windows (kabini requires more power for similar performance and kabini's GPU doesn't help it as its still too slow to play more demanding 3d games such as tomb raider, skyrim, etc). If you think baytrail is a poor fit for a tablet then kabini isn't even in the running.

That's why Kabini (Temash) isn't seen in many tablets. Kabini (Temash) was never the competition here. AMD's tablet market share is...vanishingly small.

CPU wise baytrail is amazing, especially as it seems to consume a similar amount of power as clovertrail. GPU drivers aren't finished yet and I expect when it releases to be at least 10% better (especially as reviewers have noticed that the situation under android is still a little buggy).

It looks really good in single threaded stuff, browsers etc. Basically it's a great tablet CPU. But, tbh all the new tablet chips are great tablet CPU's. Look at this for what I mean -

MobileXPRT runs five performance scenarios (Apply Photo Effects, Create Photo Collages, Create Slideshow, Encrypt Personal Content, and Detect Faces to Organize Photos) and five user-experience scenarios (List Scroll, Grid Scroll, Gallery Scroll, Browser Scroll, and Zoom and Pinch).”

Almost zero difference in user experience even with 70%+ better "performance" vs the Nexus 7. There is no obvious difference between these tablets to the average user. One costs $100 less and is a big brand tablet though.

GPU performance is okay. Its not the best but it should be fully sufficient for any task the average user tries to throw at it.

Pretty much agreed. It might even be better than I thought it would be, and currently it's easily at the "good enough" stage for a tablet.

There are no big surprises here for me. It's a little bit faster in CPU and GPU than I thought it would be (based on early benchmarks).

 

[monstercameron]

To me seems like a massive win. Blows kabini completely out of the water for windows (kabini requires more power for similar performance and kabini's GPU doesn't help it as its still too slow to play more demanding 3d games such as tomb raider, skyrim, etc). If you think baytrail is a poor fit for a tablet then kabini isn't even in the running.

CPU wise baytrail is amazing, especially as it seems to consume a similar amount of power as clovertrail. GPU drivers aren't finished yet and I expect when it releases to be at least 10% better (especially as reviewers have noticed that the situation under android is still a little buggy).

GPU performance is okay. Its not the best but it should be fully sufficient for any task the average user tries to throw at it.

so a 15W apu cant play the latest games at 1080p shocker. this is such a BS comment. I mean have you seen the benchmarks? the 500Mhz kabini gpu nearly doulbles the performance of the atom...also the atoms cpu perf is barely better than kabini's. Power might favour the atom part but when you take a closer look it seems like atom doesnt have sata3 or pcie or simply put, tablet optimized soc vs ultraportable soc.
This crap argument might work better on the a6-1450 or the a4-1200

 

[VengenceIsMine]

Can't believe i'm saying this - but the dell tablet looks nice.


...a dell product -_-

It looks nice but it's heavier than it should be, every one of the baytrail 8" prototypes I've seen are on the dense side, seems to work better at the 10" form factor where the 10" baytrail tablets I've seen were closer to the class leaders like iPad 4 in terms of dimensions & heft.

 

[VengenceIsMine]

How do you figure? Dell specializes in low cost stuff, they have Haswell laptops at the 500-600$ mark every other week on slickdeals. Dell is not an Apple. They sell tons of low cost stuff, it's probably the largest portion of their sales (eg inspiron, low end stuff). Of course, unlike Apple, Dell has a lot of low quality stuff as well (although their high end XPS line and business products are VERY good). So I have mixed feelings about Dell. Their product gamut ranges from garbage (inspiron) to great (XPS, business oriented products) with not much in between. Where this tablet ends up remains to be seen.

Anyway, I'd say the Dell tablet will be 300$ if that. The lion's portion of the cost will be the Windows license, which is just unfortunate - MS needs to share the burden if getting Windows 8.1 on tablets (RT is NOT the answer) and lowering licensing costs for tablet form factors.

Or they could do an android Bay Trail tablet. Shrug. I don't believe it will be expensive - most of their stuff is cheap outside of their premium lines (XPS, alienware, and business oriented PCs).

People need to stop with the FUD, Microsoft isn't charging OEM's $90 for 8 inch tablets, that just isn't the reality any more and hasn't been since Win 8 hit.

 

[Blandge]

Power might favour the atom part but when you take a closer look it seems like atom doesnt have sata3 or pcie

What does the A4 have hanging off of PCIe that is using so much power? Do these parts of the chip not get power gated when not in use?

 

[blackened23]

People need to stop with the FUD, Microsoft isn't charging OEM's $90 for 8 inch tablets, that just isn't the reality any more and hasn't been since Win 8 hit.

If you have more information on this please do share. I know Windows licenses for desktops cost more than they should. If it costs differently for tablets - please do share. The fact of the matter is, Android is free while Windows costs money. That's the bottom line, period. Every tablet using Windows has a windows license cost associated with it. These costs do not exist with Android, which is why Android tablets on average will likely be cheaper.

You see where i'm going with this? You can argue that Windows is stronger, and I would agree with you. But most consumers weigh cost heavily and at the end of the day - free and good enough versus Windows costing money. Free vs Cost. What do you think the ramifications are in the tablet space? I think the implications are obvious.

I Don't disagree that Windows is more powerful. It's better than Android, even - i'm with you. I would use Windows 8.1 ANYDAY over android. But to the average Joe who just wants a tablet to watch youtube and browse the web, what do they care? MS needs to push Windows 8.1 harder into the tablet space, and cost is a part of that issue. Free vs Cost to the average consumer who is none the wiser, I know what they look at.

 

[SiliconWars]

People need to stop with the FUD, Microsoft isn't charging OEM's $90 for 8 inch tablets, that just isn't the reality any more and hasn't been since Win 8 hit.

OEM's are haggling over $2, Windows is just a large cost adder for zero benefit.

There is no hope for Windows in tablets - zero. The best thing Intel and AMD can do is drop it asap.

 

[podspi]

If you have more information on this please do share. I know Windows licenses for desktops cost more than they should. If it costs differently for tablets - please do share. The fact of the matter is, Android is free while Windows costs money. That's the bottom line, period. Every tablet using Windows has a windows license cost associated with it. These costs do not exist with Android, which is why Android tablets on average will likely be cheaper.

You see where i'm going with this? You can argue that Windows is stronger, and I would agree with you. But most consumers weigh cost heavily and at the end of the day - free and good enough versus Windows costing money. Free vs Cost. What do you think the ramifications are in the tablet space? I think the implications are obvious.

That might be true for the no-name tablets with stock Android and stock drivers, but most higher end OEMs customize the software a lot, which is not free. I agree Microsoft will have to change its licensing to get a stronghold in mobile under $500 though.

 

[monstercameron]

What does the A4 have hanging off of PCIe that is using so much power? Do these parts of the chip not get power gated when not in use?

they do get power gated when not in use...

 

[monstercameron]

OEM's are haggling over $2, Windows is just a large cost adder for zero benefit.

There is no hope for Windows in tablets - zero. The best thing Intel and AMD can do is drop it asap.

that is strong language, all windows needs is one killer app and then they might be on top again.

 

[mikk]

There is no obvious difference between these tablets to the average user.

You have tried and compared it on real devices? Oh great. You arguments are silly as usual.

 

[blackened23]

that is strong language, all windows need is one killer app and then they might be on top again.

The heck are you talking about? Where are you moving the goalposts to this time? Windows 8.1 is the ultimate platform as it runs all x86 software. That alone makes it the best. The problem is the average idiot consumer doesn't care, so the licensing cost (and I have NO IDEA what that licensing cost is) may become an issue. Windows doesn't need a killer app because it already has billions of killer apps. IT does everything Android can possibly do and MUCH more.

Only a ridiculous person would ever argue that Android is better than Windows.

My argument were merely this: I'm only arguing cost and that MS should share in the burden of the goal - that goal being Windows 8.1 on tablet form factors at an attractive price. Windows being FAR BETTER shouldn't even be a question. They just need to work on lowering their licensing costs for 8.1 to get it into cheaper and better devices.

 

[monstercameron]

The hell are you TALKING about, man? Where are you moving the goalposts to this time? Windows 8.1 is the ultimate platform as it runs all x86 software. That alone makes it the best. The problem is the average idiot consumer doesn't care, so the licensing cost (and I have NO IDEA what that licensing cost is) may become an issue.

Only a ridiculous person would ever argue that Android is better than Windows. Give me a freaking break, man. I'm only arguing cost and that MS should share in the burden of the goal - that goal being Windows 8.1 on tablet form factors at an attractive price. Windows being FAR BETTER shouldn't even be a question.

wrong victim...

 

[SiliconWars]

that is strong language, all windows need is one killer app and then they might be on top again.

Gonna need more than one killer app I fear. All the advantages Windows had just aren't relevant in a tablet. I'd still take Android if both were free (admittedly I despise Windows 8 so I'm biased), and I reckon the majority of people would.

Both Intel and AMD know this, that's why they are both pushing the 2-in-1 angle pretty hard (which incidentally, AMD was months ahead of Intel in realizing ).

 

[monstercameron]

Gonna need more than one killer app I fear. All the advantages Windows had just aren't relevant in a tablet. I'd still take Android if both were free (admittedly I despise Windows 8 so I'm biased), and I reckon the majority of people would.

Both Intel and AMD know this, that's why they are both pushing the 2-in-1 angle pretty hard (which incidentally, AMD was months ahead of Intel in realizing ).

explain please.

 

[cbn]

OEM's are haggling over $2, Windows is just a large cost adder for zero benefit.

There is no hope for Windows in tablets - zero. The best thing Intel and AMD can do is drop it asap.

I think Windows would have a better role in Tablets if only Intel would do something better with the FFRD hardware.

Example: Maybe Intel can design some kind of universal docking mechanism to allow for a standardized Lapdock to be used. (Same thing goes for their phones). This would help bridge the gap between touch and Keyboard for the legacy software which is very important for x86.

With that said, I still believe there is a role for Intel's Wind River Android (maybe combining with "Ubuntu for Android" helps too). Like you mentioned cost does matter.....not every x86 tablet needs to run Windows.

 

[SiliconWars]

You have tried and compared it on real devices? Oh great. You arguments are silly as usual.

If ever a benchmark showed what "user experience" was like, you'd think it would be one that measures "user experience"?

Maybe I need to link it again?

five user-experience scenarios (List Scroll, Grid Scroll, Gallery Scroll, Browser Scroll, and Zoom and Pinch).

Please understand what this means - that subjectively, all of these devices are performing identically in the hands of the vast, vast majority of users.

 

[Imouto]

that is strong language, all windows needs is one killer app and then they might be on top again.

http://betanews.com/2013/08/29/most-ios-and-windows-phone-apps-are-dead/

 

[Khato]

Please understand what this means - that subjectively, all of these tablets are performing identically in the hands of the vast, vast majority of users.

So what you're saying is that Intel can run Baytrail at say 2/3 the speed and 1/2 the power while still having the same subjective user experience?

That's definitely good news for Merrifield

 

[SiliconWars]

explain please.

We know AMD was fast with the hybrid tablet thing right? Months ago we saw how Temash would be available with docking station. Superb idea. Really, really superb. They just don't have the hardware and OEM relations to back it up.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/laptop/60053-intel-reinvents-wheel-launches-2-in-1-mobile-category/

Intel does though. Windows' productivity advantages are only really enabled when the tablet becomes a true laptop or desktop.

 

[SiliconWars]

So what you're saying is that Intel can run Baytrail at say 2/3 the speed and 1/2 the power while still having the same subjective user experience?

That's definitely good news for Merrifield

Basically, yes.

 

[monstercameron]

We know AMD was fast with the hybrid tablet thing right? Months ago we saw how Temash would be available with docking station. Superb idea. Really, really superb. They just don't have the hardware and OEM relations to back it up.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/laptop/60053-intel-reinvents-wheel-launches-2-in-1-mobile-category/

Intel does though. Windows' productivity advantages are only really enabled when the tablet becomes a true laptop or desktop.

oh i thought you were mentioning android support...

 

[SiliconWars]

I just got sent this from another forum -

Wintel destined to eventually fail, says Acer founder

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130910PD203.html

Intel rules in CPU performance sure, but the advantage they have isn't worth the cost they demand. Think about it from an OEM perspective - you have the choice of many SoC's and Windows or Android for a tablet. What is the compelling reason to go Wintel?

You have to look at it in terms of "what do I get?", because that is what they are doing when making purchasing decisions. There is no room for fanboyism or anything else - just cold hard facts and money.

20% faster CPU performance is basically nothing. An hour extra battery life is basically nothing. 50% faster graphics? Basically nothing. It's a race to the bottom and you have to be cheap. That is the #1 factor in winning the tablet war, the phone war and I suspect the entire silicon war as chips become a commodity.