The Intel Atom Thread

[dbcoopernz]

There is no connected standby support on 64bit Windows yet due to MS. I am sure thats where the issue lies.

Are they fixing this with 8.1?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Are they fixing this with 8.1?

The RTM dont seem to support it. So its most likely some update next year.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The Surface Pro also ships with 32bit.

 

[Nothingness]

OS upgrades on tablets are usually not possible. So I assume when you first bought a tablet with 32bit Windows, you are stuck with it. Hence the wording.

Do you mean Windows tablets bootloaders are locked and one can't install Linux on them? I think this was only supposed to be the case for RT tablets. If you are right then I surely won't buy a BT tablet, I simply don't care about Windows (or Android).

Guess we'll have to wait a little to know for sure.

 

[AtenRa]

That's an old slide and I hope ARK is correct. If that's not the case, I'll wait for next gen.

I meant due to the lack of the OS.

 

[seitur]

OS upgrades on tablets are usually not possible. So I assume when you first bought a tablet with 32bit Windows, you are stuck with it. Hence the wording.

Well if x86 BT tablets will have locked bootloader, then Tablet makers / Intel can kiss my purcharse goodbye. I don't like being locked out of managing my own hardware.

 

[podspi]

Its MS that needs Intel more than the other way around. Samsung and Intel is also behind Tizen.

I think Microsoft and Intel made a huge mistake supporting each other's competitors. While I think both companies make strong products, they also make tend to make expensive products in a time where "good enough" is really good enough for many people if it is cheaper.

Microsoft's big advantage is their backwards compatibility, which Android/iOS/Tizen can't touch. They give this up (and UI familiarity) with Windows RT.

Intel's big advantage is their backwards compatibility. Unfortunately, nobody really uses x86 for anything other than Windows, and Android is pretty hardware agnostic. So while they may be able to make a great SoC for Android, it has to be much better than everybody else, otherwise you'd be better off going for an ARM SoC (better compatibility with native apps, the strategic benefits of not tying yourself to x86).


Wintel was a pretty powerful double-near-monopoly. I think it is good for us that they decided to stab each other in the back (I think Microsoft started it), but definitely a mistake for the companies themselves.

 

[SlimFan]

There hasn't been any clear statement from Intel about 64 bit support for Bay Trail T. Could that be due to the fact that it's really outside Intel's control?

Only Windows 8/8.1-32 has support for connected standby. Does someone want a tablet without connected standby? I think the general assumption would be no.

There is not currently a version of Android-64 that's supported by anyone. The question would be whether or not the hardware has 64 bit support enabled for the day when someone finally provides an optimized Android-64 with full driver support.

That leaves Linux, Windows 7, Windows 8 (w/o connected standby). These don't seem very interesting (to me) from a tablet perspective. If you want to run any of those, you likely need a mouse+keyboard, at which point you likely want to buy Bay Trail-M.

Hopefully 64 bits are enabled, and that way people can start playing with Android-64 (it's open source, right? ). But that seems like that's something that very, very few people would be interested in. I've certainly never contributed to the Linux/Android source tree...

 

[Nothingness]

Only Windows 8/8.1-32 has support for connected standby. Does someone want a tablet without connected standby? I think the general assumption would be no.

I have been looking for an official statement from Microsoft regarding connected standby being limited to 32-bit and I failed to find that. I am starting to wonder if it's not again (remember Clovertrail delays?) Intel failing to provide some driver in time.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I have been looking for an official statement from Microsoft regarding connected standby being limited to 32-bit and I failed to find that. I am starting to wonder if it's not again (remember Clovertrail delays?) Intel failing to provide some driver in time.

Why do you think MS ships the Surface with 32bit? MS also calls its AOAC.

Also both the Surface Pro and RT had conencted standby updates because it wasnt working as expected.

Even announced Temash tablets is 32bit.

 

[blackened23]

Why does it matter for a 2GB tablet? Both Bay Trail M/D have 64 bit support since those are going in form factors where 64 bit will actually be used. 64 bit will not be used in a 7 inch to 10 inch tablet.. Bay Trail T is designed for small tablets which surely are going to have less than 4GB of RAM (so 32 bit is not an issue due to RAM size). It is a non issue.

 

[SlimFan]

I have been looking for an official statement from Microsoft regarding connected standby being limited to 32-bit and I failed to find that. I am starting to wonder if it's not again (remember Clovertrail delays?) Intel failing to provide some driver in time.

It's certainly not definitive, but Anandtech did say this:

Connected standby is only currently supported by 32-bit Windows 8, so although Clovertrail supports x86-64 the platform will launch as 32-bit only. There's no support for alternate OSes at this point.
​

It's always possible that it's Intel's fault and they haven't delivered on the necessary software pieces. The fact that nobody else in the industry has Windows 8/RT support + 64 bits + connected standby doesn't sound like a feature disadvantage for Bay Trail.

It's certainly frustrating that Apple can release new 64 bit hardware alongside new 64 bit OS all in one shot, and the rest of the industry can't get it all together at the same time. :thumbsdown:

 

[ShintaiDK]

It's certainly frustrating that Apple can release new 64 bit hardware alongside new 64 bit OS all in one shot, and the rest of the industry can't get it all together at the same time. :thumbsdown:

Its always easier when one person/company can make a decision. rather than many big companies all wanting their says.

Just look how bad OpenGL is vs DirectX. OpenGL simply died to bureaucracy. Everyone wanted a say in it and couldnt agree.

 

[Khato]

It's certainly frustrating that Apple can release new 64 bit hardware alongside new 64 bit OS all in one shot, and the rest of the industry can't get it all together at the same time. :thumbsdown:

Ayup. Intel has had a 64 bit capable smartphone SoC since the introduction of Medfield last year, but none of the OS players wanted to support it. Primarily because there really is no reason to. Hence we had the same situation as we do with Baytrail-T - Intel isn't advertising it because none of the end products will actually make use of it currently.

 

[sontin]

Its always easier when one person/company can make a decision. rather than many big companies all wanting their says.

Just look how bad OpenGL is vs DirectX. OpenGL simply died to bureaucracy. Everyone wanted a say in it and couldnt agree.

OpenGL did not die because of bureaucracy. There was no need to use it after Windows took over 99% of the gaming market.

But with Android OpenGL will do a comeback.

 

[Shivansps]

OpenGL ES != OpenGL, Android drivers supports using desktop OpenGL if the GPU supports it? i dont think so.

Why does it matter for a 2GB tablet? Both Bay Trail M/D have 64 bit support since those are going in form factors where 64 bit will actually be used. 64 bit will not be used in a 7 inch to 10 inch tablet.. Bay Trail T is designed for small tablets which surely are going to have less than 4GB of RAM (so 32 bit is not an issue due to RAM size). It is a non issue.

It is bad, 32bit OS cant address more than 2GB of ram to a single app, 64 bit OS can address up to 4gb of ram to a single 32bit app that supports it.

So ill say it does not matter on 2GB, but it does on 4GB.

Also, it is confirmed that the hardware on BT-T cant address more than 4GB of ram? or they just put 4GB on there because there is not 64 BIT OS, and when it does, Airmont will be already avalible? It seems strange to me that M and D supports up to 8GB and T do not.... the memory controller seems the same in all of them.

 

[mikk]

That also was my understanding, but then the Intel document I linked above is wrong. It's a pain Intel doesn't seem to be able to provide cristal clear information about their products

Silvermont is a 32/64 bit capable CPU. 64 bit support is coming in 2014, some sources said in Q1 2014. Connected Standy currently is only supported by the 32 bit version of Windows 8.1. Haswell for example doesn't support connected standby because Windows isn't ready yet.

The reason is limitations in Microsoft’s software, said Nathan Brookwood, principal analyst at Insight 64. A feature in Windows 8.1 called connected standby, which allows computers to be put in sleep mode and wake up instantly, is available today only in the 32-bit version.
Microsoft is adding the feature to the 64-bit Windows 8.1, and it will be available in early 2014.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2048...ith-64bit-atom-chips-not-coming-until-q1.html

 

[AtenRa]

Anyone said anything about die sizes in any review ???

 

[mikk]

8C Avoton is 107 mm² big, Bay Trail-T slightly bigger.

 

[Exophase]

Ayup. Intel has had a 64 bit capable smartphone SoC since the introduction of Medfield last year, but none of the OS players wanted to support it. Primarily because there really is no reason to. Hence we had the same situation as we do with Baytrail-T - Intel isn't advertising it because none of the end products will actually make use of it currently.

I was always under the impression that Medfield, CloverTrail and CloverTrail+ had 64-bit capability fused off.

Not specifically mentioning it in press material is one thing, but not listing it in their Ark information makes no sense - I don't see them omitting it just because none of the OS makers want to support it.

http://ark.intel.com/products/70100/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z2580-1MB-Cache-2_00-GHz

 

[rootheday3]

Baytrail is 64 bit capable; Intel drivers are ready (see the M and D skus). Tablet skus will get support as soon as win8.1 gets a service pack to add Connected Standby to 64 bit versions.

You can blame this one on Microsoft assuming early on that only arm parts running WinRT would be relevant for tablet usages ... And since arm only had 32 bit... Here we are. Hopefully it gets fixed shortly though in practice I am not sure how many OEMs WL equip tablets with more than 4gb anyway - maybe higher end systems that are intended to be used with a dock/external display/mouse/keyboard as an office system too?

 

[seitur]

I am not sure how many OEMs WL equip tablets with more than 4gb anyway - maybe higher end systems that are intended to be used with a dock/external display/mouse/keyboard as an office system too?

It is not about that.

x64 Windows on tablets would be better because:
a) 2GB per app limit on 32-bit
b) higher performance in some tasks
c) weeding out 32-bit finally. Seriously it need to go away and market don't need more 32-bit units. Laptop, tablet or desktop.

Remember x86 tablets and x86 desktops / laptops are not completly diffrent ecosystems. They are one ecosystem. It is not iOS and MacOS or Android vs Windows.

 

[Nothingness]

Why does it matter for a 2GB tablet? Both Bay Trail M/D have 64 bit support since those are going in form factors where 64 bit will actually be used. 64 bit will not be used in a 7 inch to 10 inch tablet.. Bay Trail T is designed for small tablets which surely are going to have less than 4GB of RAM (so 32 bit is not an issue due to RAM size). It is a non issue.

Don't know if I should laugh or cry. Do you really think 4 GB of RAM is a prerequisite for 64-bit? If so I guess you're not a dev, or are trying to convince others that these toys being 32-bit is not an issue.

Anyway, all my computers have run 64-bit OS for 10 years and I see no reason to change that especially as Bay Trail has enough power to be used as a real computer and not as a toy. Now all I need to know is if BIOS will be unlocked to install some other OS.

 

[Nothingness]

Why do you think MS ships the Surface with 32bit? MS also calls its AOAC.

Also both the Surface Pro and RT had conencted standby updates because it wasnt working as expected.

Even announced Temash tablets is 32bit.

I don't get it. Isn't the Surface Pro running Windows 8 64-bit? If so then doesn't it support Connected Standby? If it does then why does Intel (or the press?) puts the blame on MS?

 

[blackened23]

Don't know if I should laugh or cry. Do you really think 4 GB of RAM is a prerequisite for 64-bit? If so I guess you're not a dev, or are trying to convince others that these toys being 32-bit is not an issue.

Anyway, all my computers have run 64-bit OS for 10 years and I see no reason to change that especially as Bay Trail has enough power to be used as a real computer and not as a toy. Now all I need to know is if BIOS will be unlocked to install some other OS.

So you're telling me a user should care because you're a developer. How the hell does that affect me as a user? Give me a break please. Whether these machines are 32 bit or 64 bit you still have to code 32 bit for legacy reasons if you're a developer. An end user really doesn't give a flying EFF.

The RAM is 4GB or less in all Bay Trail T SKUs therefore it doesn't freaking matter. It does not change the user experience, period. Especially with most Bay Trail T SKUs being 2GB RAM only. Seeing as the Surface Pro has 8GB RAM configurations I can conclude that it is using a 64 bit OS, anyway.