The Intel Atom Thread

[ShintaiDK]

I'm actually very curious as to why Intel disabled 64-bit capability on the Saltwell core.

Power consumption maybe. And no 64bit OSes.

 

[witeken]

In any case, 64-bit isn't a very important feature, more a necessity for a maturing form factor. But I guess at least Qualcomm should get credits for delivering on its roadmap, in contrast to Intel's execution:

So far 3 mobile misses this year, maybe more if we count their modem and 14nm SoFIA. In my opinion, Intel should make up for this by doing a contra-revenue Broadwell SKU tablet for ~$400. The 10" Llama Mountain would be great.

 

[Arachnotronic]

So far 3 mobile misses this year, maybe more if we count their modem and 14nm SoFIA. In my opinion, Intel should make up for this by doing a contra-revenue Broadwell SKU tablet for ~$400. The 10" Llama Mountain would be great.

That'd be unwise. Broadwell-Y is Intel's way of capturing a shedload of the tablet profit pie with a differentiated, high end SKU. No way they "contra-revenue" it so that they can shove it into cheap tablets.

 

[witeken]

Sure*, but else they won't have an answer to A57. Although I think A57 will be very power hungry on 20nm, its IPC will be a lot higher than dual-issue Atom.

*Maybe a 3W or lower SKU for 7-8" tablets for $500?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Sure*, but else they won't have an answer to A57. Although I think A57 will be very power hungry on 20nm, its IPC will be a lot higher than dual-issue Atom.

*Maybe a 3W or lower SKU for 7-8" tablets for $500?

A57 will probably clock low on 20nm, but will be unleashed on 16 FinFET. Intel needs to have its low-power core act together by 2015 with Goldmont otherwise it risks being in the same situation it has been in with respect to mobile for a while: behind.

 

[mikk]

Do you still expect Goldmont in 2015?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Do you still expect Goldmont in 2015?

Given Intel's mobile track record? I'd guess that it'll be as much "2015" as Airmont was "2014". I've learned to be very conservative about Intel's mobile product plans in general.

I expect that Intel's IDF announcements give more clarity here.

 

[Arachnotronic]

In any case, 64-bit isn't a very important feature, more a necessity for a maturing form factor. But I guess at least Qualcomm should get credits for delivering on its roadmap

If I recall correctly, Francois spent a lot of time trash talking Qualcomm's Snapdragon 800 relative to Bay Trail.

I hope Intel's senior management does not underestimate Qualcomm.

 

[witeken]

I think the same about Goldmont as I think about Airmont. When Intel starts ramping up multiple additional 14nm factories in Q4, Intel will have lots of 14nm volume in ~Q2-Q3. Let's not forget that Intel was ready to ship Goldmont and Gen9 in Q4.

I expect that Intel's Investor Meeting announcements give more clarity here.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I expect that Intel's Investor Meeting announcements give more clarity here.

That's a pretty reasonable expectation. Though I do expect "'appy Hour with Hermann" to offer some good insights.

 

[witeken]

If I recall correctly, Francois spent a lot of time trash talking Qualcomm's Snapdragon 800 relative to Bay Trail.

I hope Intel's senior management does not underestimate Qualcomm.

At least Bay Trail gave Intel a ~100% tablet market share against Windows RT. Bay Trail is better and runs on a better OS. Too bad Intel didn't capitalize on that advantage in the smartphone market (64-bit Android + quadcore 22nm Silvermont).

Intel also failed to capitalize its SoFIA platform against slow Cortex A7 cores, to gain Android market share. We'll see if the same happens with Broxton/Goldmont, against Krait's successor.

I hope Intel's senior management does not underestimate Qualcomm.

Maybe Intel is underestimating the amount of innovation? A dual-issue design is quite conservative for a Tri-Gate process and after a 5 year cadence, certainly if your competitors are also pushing such designs or bigger to 2GHz+ clock speeds.

I don't think Brian Krzanich aims that low, though.

 

[liahos1]

At least Bay Trail gave Intel a ~100% tablet market share against Windows RT. Bay Trail is better and runs on a better OS. Too bad Intel didn't capitalize on that advantage in the smartphone market (64-bit Android + quadcore 22nm Silvermont).

Intel also failed to capitalize its SoFIA platform against slow Cortex A7 cores, to gain Android market share. We'll see if the same happens with Broxton/Goldmont, against Krait's successor.


Maybe Intel is underestimating the amount of innovation? A dual-issue design is quite conservative for a Tri-Gate process and after a 5 year cadence, certainly if your competitors are also pushing such designs or bigger to 2GHz+ clock speeds.

I don't think Brian Krzanich aims that low, though.

I mean what perplexes me is if you listen to the CORE M introduction they are talking about a LOT of innovation around getting CORE M to fit into tablet form factors. Like their own process flavor etc. Why are they focusing so much of their efforts on what is undoubtedly going to be a leadership product in performance while the market has shifted to the low end. Why arent we getting more cherrytrail information when that is whats going to move volumes and get them more share in tablets.

If cherrytrail is a shrink of baytrail + updated gpu with more EU's why is that taking so long to put out relative to CORE family products.

Or maybe there is no delay and they are keeping their cards close to the chest? I dont know but its perplexing they spent so much time on CORE M when the market has moved away from premium products and into crappy little android tablets.

also why the hell has it taken so long to get intel baseband inhouse. i just dont get it. how can they be spending so much in mobile with so little to show for it.

the one thing that is intriguing is how aggressive they are buying back stock. they arent really trumping up the return of the pc as a sustainable growth market post xp expiration so they have to be positive on other parts of their business. Given how much BK and Stacy have talked about being committed to both gaining share and making profits in mobile maybe it will turn out alright. who knows

 

[Arachnotronic]

I mean what perplexes me is if you listen to the CORE M introduction they are talking about a LOT of innovation around getting CORE M to fit into tablet form factors. Like their own process flavor etc. Why are they focusing so much of their efforts on what is undoubtedly going to be a leadership product in performance while the market has shifted to the low end. Why arent we getting more cherrytrail information when that is whats going to move volumes and get them more share in tablets.

If cherrytrail is a shrink of baytrail + updated gpu with more EU's why is that taking so long to put out relative to CORE family products.

Or maybe there is no delay and they are keeping their cards close to the chest? I dont know but its perplexing they spent so much time on CORE M when the market has moved away from premium products and into crappy little android tablets.

also why the hell has it taken so long to get intel baseband inhouse. i just dont get it. how can they be spending so much in mobile with so little to show for it.

Poor execution. If Intel were delivering "wow" products for its huge mobile R&D spend, that'd be one thing. But Intel's mobile products are "OK" at best.

 

[witeken]

I mean what perplexes me is if you listen to the CORE M introduction they are talking about a LOT of innovation around getting CORE M to fit into tablet form factors. Like their own process flavor etc. Why are they focusing so much of their efforts on what is undoubtedly going to be a leadership product in performance while the market has shifted to the low end. Why arent we getting more cherrytrail information when that is whats going to move volumes and get them more share in tablets.

Because Intel is all about performance . They brought Core M first to market for the reasons you mention: lots of innovation at the platform, architecture and transistor levels. Much more impressive than a die shrink of an existing tablet part.

I don't think Intel's efforts on Core M impact Atom in any way. It isn't like they have only 1 team responsible for all releases.

If cherrytrail is a shrink of baytrail + updated gpu with more EU's why is that taking so long to put out relative to CORE family products.

Fab capacity? They also need design wins to put those SKUs in, so if those 2 don't align, we won't see Cherry Trail in 2014.

Or maybe there is no delay and they are keeping their cards close to the chest? I dont know but its perplexing they spent so much time on CORE M when the market has moved away from premium products and into crappy little android tablets.

I think Intel aims to replace some portion of the traditional Core laptop market with convertibles, smaller form factors. I'm interested to see what Broadwell-Y design wins Intel shows off at IFA and IDF.

also why the hell has it taken so long to get intel baseband inhouse. i just dont get it. how can they be spending so much in mobile with so little to show for it.

Maybe Idontcore could give some insight in how long it takes to port such things to another process?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Maybe Idontcore could give some insight in how long it takes to port such things to another process?

Intel had a 22nm baseband on the roadmap once upon a time...

 

[Khato]

Why are they focusing so much of their efforts on what is undoubtedly going to be a leadership product in performance while the market has shifted to the low end. Why arent we getting more cherrytrail information when that is whats going to move volumes and get them more share in tablets.

Likely because Broadwell was always supposed to be available before Cherry Trail. But there also is something to be said for Intel attempting to extend the product mix present in the PC market to tablets. Which is to say that sure there's a lot of low end PC volume, but that doesn't mean that there's not plenty of market in the mid and high range because the additional performance actually enables more usages.

What has a 'high end' tablet been able to do that the low end ones can't? Other than dominate the benchmarks of course. I don't believe that Intel will necessarily have all that convincing of an argument for the additional performance even in a Windows tablet necessarily, but it does make sense for them to open that door and see what happens.

 

[liahos1]

do any of you think we'll find out anything at all about Sofia, Broxton or Cherrytrail at IDF? I mean prior to IDF last year they had ANAND and a bunch of other dudes in their offices checking out baytrail. its depressing. If core M is an amazing product but the devices they get put in are $600+ plus its depressing. Although I guess the value one gets out of baytrail tablets now is ridiculous for the price. I havent really seen too many new arm based tablet skus popping up recently. seems like a massive blur now and all the releases seem to be intel based. maybe im just looking at it through blinders. /rant

 

[Arachnotronic]

do any of you think we'll find out anything at all about Sofia, Broxton or Cherrytrail at IDF? I mean prior to IDF last year they had ANAND and a bunch of other dudes in their offices checking out baytrail. its depressing. If core M is an amazing product but the devices they get put in are $600+ plus its depressing. Although I guess the value one gets out of baytrail tablets now is ridiculous for the price. I havent really seen too many new arm based tablet skus popping up recently. seems like a massive blur now and all the releases seem to be intel based. maybe im just looking at it through blinders. /rant

Intel had a session listed at IDF in which it claimed that it would detail Cherry Trail, SoFIA, and "offer a sneak peak at Broxton."

The description was changed, though, to just vaguely mention 2015 tablet products.

Is anybody here attending IDF?

 

[witeken]

Tablet Innovation: Experiences, Usages, and Opportunities with Intel’s 2015 Tablet Roadmap

2015 will bring many new and exciting innovations to Intel’s 2015 tablet roadmap. In this session, Intel will share its System-on-Chip (SoC) roadmap and the associated experiences and usages that will provide the opportunities for you to develop and deliver new and exciting differentiated tablets in 2015. This session will include Entry and Value tablet platforms (i.e., SoFIA) as well as Mid and Performance platforms. This session will also cover innovation that extends beyond the SoC, including: communications integration, security, 3D cameras, 64-bit OS support, and more. We will also provide insights into how Intel’s platforms support both Android* and Windows*.

Topics include:
• Updates on Entry/Value & Mid/Performance tablets for 2015
• New and exciting user experiences, including: 3D Cameras – Intel® RealSense™ Snapshot, Sensors
• Software advancements/opportunities, including: 64-bit Android on Intel® Architecture, and Intel® Reference Design for Android
• Evolution of platform capabilities: improvement in performance/graphics over previous generation, communications integration, increase in design scalability

Mazen Labban - Senior Director, Android Platforms, Intel Corporation
Jennifer Sanati - Senior Technical Marketing Engineer, Intel Corporation
Mukesh Goel - Director, Mobile Usages & Ecosystem, Intel Corporation

 

[liahos1]

Tablet Innovation: Experiences, Usages, and Opportunities with Intel’s 2015 Tablet Roadmap

dont undestand this. how are they regressing to a 28nm node for entry and value while in 2013 their value and entry tablets all had lower specced baytrail derivatives in them. smh

furthermore what is the need for an integrated 3g modem for entry and value tablets?

 

[witeken]

You know that SoFIA is meant for smartphones, right? I guess the title is misleading. In any case, SoFIA is aimed at the lowest cost devices and will not have contra-revenue.

 

[liahos1]

You know that SoFIA is meant for smartphones, right? I guess the title is misleading. In any case, SoFIA is aimed at the lowest cost devices and will not have contra-revenue.

i do. hence questioning why they are mentioning that as a entry/value tablet part

 

[NTMBK]

i do. hence questioning why they are mentioning that as a entry/value tablet part

Probably because they know that their tablet parts can't be price competitive with the likes of Mediatek.

 

[witeken]

Why can't they be price competitive?

 

[NTMBK]

Why can't they be price competitive?

Just a theory based on them pushing SoFIA for tablets- could definitely be wrong