Originally posted by: Aimster
I love how people flock to Sultan's defense. I also love how random people register for the first time and post for the very first time in this thread. One needs to question who those people are, especially the people who just registered. Someone obviously has told them about P&N and I doubt they came on their own. EX: someone posted for the very first time on anandtech.com they they were a hijabi. Where did she come from?
You are missing the facts. Sultan is a Taliban. I never argued about Ramadan, praying, or eating pork. Did I? Show me where I argued with Sultan about those topics in this thread and you can get a cookie too, but for now I'm keeping the cookie.
No, I think the fact is that you believe there are as as many Muslims who follow your interpretation is where I would disagree.
You agree with the killing of his child if he/she commits adultery?
You agree that the Taliban were not bad and were good for the Afghan people?
He is the one who says a women needs to lower their face when they talk to a man, but Sultan fails to mention a man must do the same. Why? Because he has no respect for women at all and ignores that part.
I wouldn't agree with Sultan's comments, but at the same time I am confident enough my kids wouldn't run around and have premarital sex. If they did? Worst decision they'll make because to me it shows a lack of patience, and an inability to control oneself. We could debate that all day llong, but in the end I would be confident that they wouldn't. But if they did, nope I wouldn't chop of their head and kill them because it isn't necessary these days.
I don't agree that the Taliban were good-- they were more idiotic than anything~ I never understood the whole shooting missles at statues that are now historical monuments and I guess neither did all the other clerics as they condemied it.
No I'm sure he lowers his face when he talks to a women. Unless you are extremely chauvanistic I find it hard for people to expect that out of someone and not to the same. This is something that a lot of people do- many people don't look at me when I speak to them (And the majority of people i speak with are not muslim. perhaps out of every 100 people i talk to 3 are muslim) even though I always make it a point to make eye contact.
Stop accusing me or assuming i agree with things. Because I think its riducluos how much you insult him doesn't mean you should associate who i am with hiim.
You can believe Islamic Law. If your kid in the future ever steals some candy and gets caught, remind me to cut off his finger.
No if they stole some candy I'd make them go to the store, return it and say they are sorry and then pay for the candy they stole. In 700 A.D. when having something of your poesseion taken away could mean grave consequences for the survival of you and your familly, it made perfect sense. But now even if I did let me kid steal that candy bar, the trangression that is created is minimal at best-->therefore the consequences shouldn't be as great
Sultan holds the very beliefs the Taliban believe in. How are the Taliban different from Sultan?
Well even though I see him as much more extreme, I doubt he sits there for 15 hours a day reading the Quran becasue that clearly brings no benefit. God only helps those who help themselves, and by sitting down and just praying the marginal cost of praying that much is a 1000x greater than the marginal benefit That and I beleive in the Quran or Hadith it staes that at the extreme, no more than 8 hours a day should be spent on praying. But I think that it is meant in mainly a passive manner. 5 prayers that take anywhere from 3-5 minutes are minute, and i think the rest is things like saying "subhanallah" as you sit down after a while, etc.
Anyone who is a Taliban is an extremist. I'm not insulting anyone. "fanatical wacko" is hardly an insult. If that offends you then like Arnold says, "You're a girly boy". I'm not going to be nice while someone goes off at me saying I damage Islam because I was wrong on how Jesus died. He could have just corrected me, but he insulted me because Sultan is the great Islam King.. Isn't that a little extreme to you? Sultan has a grudge against me because the very people who are against him on this forum are giving me thumbs up. He finds if so offensive that a "Muslim" is going against another "Muslim". In this Muslim community all you hear about is "poor Arafat". All you hear from me is "who the hell cares you're not a Palestinian so stop caring so much".
The Taliban are extremeists. Did I ever indicate they are not? And I care for the Palestinian situatino because while the most important thing is that they receive a nation of their own, at the same time Muslims also have a concern for the maintencince of areas such as Al Quds, etc.~ Muslims, Christians and Jews all have a stake in that region of the world and the hard part is finding a position where all are satisfied. That, and I am Arab also so seeing your arab neighbors losing their land, and then the arabs next to them treat them like dirt kind of upsets me.
What makes you think there are not a lot of Aimsters out there. Because where you come from people are like Sultan? I told you Islam is different for each culture.
I came from Iraq and moved here at age one. I grew up in America under my parents, both whom are Engineers. A moderate Muslim does not hold your views, and I have met many. I am not trying to anger you or anything, becausein the end we are both Muslims (Though you have stated you are muslim, and you aren't in several threads). The post had two aims: 1) that while i'm sure muslims hold your views, they are not as dominated as you make it seem. Actually, since Sultan is pretty extreme and I've never met a guy who agrees with death for his kids and is a Muslim, perhaps it is a 1:1 ratio, because extremeists (on both sides) are not very common, although they are the ones that make the most noise.
Sultan is not a Muslim Scholar. It is like a Christian here making a thread on Christianity. Will he have all the answers? no. This thread might as well be called "Sultan's view on Islam".
Nope he isn't. But the answers he is givng out so far are the truth from a literal standpoint. Do i necessarily agree with the interpreation of a literal standpoint? No...and that makes all the difference in the world
And please don't think i'm "against" you at all Aimster. We are all Muslims and if we all though the same way and interpreted the Quran in the same manner I would find that scary, although I wouldn't mind getting rid of the Bin Laden element because many Americans who know little about the religion think we are all like that.
Oh and you are in medical school? Wow congrats!!! Serious, that is something really difficult and I coped out and decided to go with engineering because there is just no chance I can be a doctor...too much of an effort for me.
What does a muslim need to do in order to go to heaven? There is a heaven in Islam right?
Are most Islamic scholars in agreement to what needs to be done to be "saved"?
Oooh lemme asnwer. Hahah actually chances are Sultan and MEgaworks will disagree, but I've thought of this for a long time (seocnd part, not the not being saved part ) Well first of all I don't understand the concept of being "saved". I have nothing to be saved from. I was not born sinful at all or anything, and the conept of original sin is absent from the Quran. WhetherI go to Heaven (yes there is one) or Hell is determined by my actions alone.
But to me, what do I need to go to to heaven? I think the most important thing is to be a good person. TO ME, that supercedes being a muslim or a jew or christian or even agnostic (though Aethist is a different story because they beleive for CERTAIN that God does not exist). In my life I have met many good Muslims according whta I see as good, and also I have met "false" muslims. Those who say they are Muslim but in realty are just a peice of trash. And it makes me realize that there are people who say they are muslim, but are horrible...but there are people who aren't muslim that are among the nicest people i've met. It makes me wonder why someone could exist. We all calim to know the right interpretaion of God. I'm sure some things we interpret correctly, and in other things we do not. But in the end, it is god who knows the real interpretaiton and judgement isn't cast upon you by your peers, judgement is cast soley by God therefore every person is an individual case that God will judge. That is why I think you can be any religion or even wondering if god exists, but as long as you are a person then it is up to god, not up to the interpretation of the books by our peers.
I guess to me that invites the diea "well then I don't have to be a Muslim to get into Heaven therefore I can be a good person and beleive in what I want to, so if I am right i don't get screwed whereas you do~ and if you are right then i still have a chance"...and i'm sure someone thought of that reading this....and well alll i have to say is ~ That doesn't mean I'm any less of a Muslim and I try to "relax" things on prupose...I really think interpretation is the key to all, and its hard to see "when should one interpret and when should one take literally" and things like prayer or not eating pork and asting I beleive should be taken literally, whereas the Shariah shouldn;t.
Note: my views are NOT held by the majority of Muslims. I know this for a fact. So take this for what you will.
As for the story of the Quran and when iit was put down into book form, I would expect sultan to provide this answer better than I could I know the story but not to the details that sultan could. But essentially when they decided to compile it because they feared that over time it could change, they went through one of the most meticulous capmisngs to "prove" the ayat (verses) were the same that were revelaed to the prophet. The same intense scrutiny was applied to the Sunnah. So I do hope that sultan provides a better answer since at things like this where no interpreation is needed his knowledge shines.