The Islamic thread

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: ariafrost
You know, Islam is merely an Arab-icized form of Chrisitianity/Judaism changed to reflect Middle Eastern worldviews and culture, and also to keep the social order. That said, while true followers of Islam are good, peaceful people, so many extremists that would gladly nuke a U.S. city exist that the world will never trust the Middle East. Research the beginnings of your religion. It is not like Christianity. Christianity is the only religion that I know of that is unique and doesn't copy from other religions.

Thank you for your enlightening post. If you have a question about Islam, please feel free to ask.

Yes, do. However, be aware that if Sultan does not like the question or is unable to answer it , He will just call you a Retard and acuse you of being full of Hate. :roll:

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: ariafrost
You know, Islam is merely an Arab-icized form of Chrisitianity/Judaism changed to reflect Middle Eastern worldviews and culture, and also to keep the social order. That said, while true followers of Islam are good, peaceful people, so many extremists that would gladly nuke a U.S. city exist that the world will never trust the Middle East. Research the beginnings of your religion. It is not like Christianity. Christianity is the only religion that I know of that is unique and doesn't copy from other religions.

Thank you for your enlightening post. If you have a question about Islam, please feel free to ask.

Yes, do. However, be aware that if Sultan does not like the question or is unable to answer it , He will just call you a Retard and acuse you of being full of Hate. :roll:

Thank you for crapping in my thread. Questions without merit, such as yours can not be answered. Please try again.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: ariafrost
You know, Islam is merely an Arab-icized form of Chrisitianity/Judaism changed to reflect Middle Eastern worldviews and culture, and also to keep the social order. That said, while true followers of Islam are good, peaceful people, so many extremists that would gladly nuke a U.S. city exist that the world will never trust the Middle East. Research the beginnings of your religion. It is not like Christianity. Christianity is the only religion that I know of that is unique and doesn't copy from other religions.

You'll find similar "stories" as in the bible in other religions. I wouldn't call christiantiy "unique" other than the large following it has.

 

[piasabird]

You may have answered this, but I will try. If you answered it refer me to the point in the thread. What of the source of the Quoran. Please excuse my spelling.

When I was studying Early western history we touched on the subject of Islam quite a bit. We were taught that Muhammed was an orphan and he was raised by a rich Uncle who was in the Caravan business and he traveled quite a bit. Muhammed married a woman who was rich and a Caravan owner. She broke tradition and asked him to marry her. Later when seeking to know more about God (Generic, use Allah if you wish), Muhammed went to live in a cave in the mountain for a while to pray. This was a custom of the time to seek enlightenment. On one of these excursions according the the text we studied from Muhammed had a visitation from the Angel Gabriel. Many of the writings were suppose to be from communication form the angel and from Heaven.

One thing I found a bit odd is that Muhammed could not write. I am guessing he had scribes writing his sayings. Some writings were from him and there were other companion books written about this teachings after his death.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: piasabird
You may have answered this, but I will try. If you answered it refer me to the point in the thread. What of the source of the Quoran. Please excuse my spelling.

When I was studying Early western history we touched on the subject of Islam quite a bit. We were taught that Muhammed was an orphan and he was raised by a rich Uncle who was in the Caravan business and he traveled quite a bit. Muhammed married a woman who was rich and a Caravan owner. She broke tradition and asked him to marry her. Later when seeking to know more about God (Generic, use Allah if you wish), Muhammed went to live in a cave in the mountain for a while to pray. This was a custom of the time to seek enlightenment. On one of these excursions according the the text we studied from Muhammed had a visitation from the Angel Gabriel. Many of the writings were suppose to be from communication form the angel and from Heaven.

One thing I found a bit odd is that Muhammed could not write. I am guessing he had scribes writing his sayings. Some writings were from him and there were other companion books written about this teachings after his death.

Yes, the teachings taught to you are correct.

The source of the Quran is God. Angel Gabriel communicated the message of God to Prophet Mohammad (S.A). The Prophet then narrated the messages to his companions over a period of approximately 2 decades; these companions memorized the Quran, or wrote it down in stone or preserved it by other means.

Thanks for asking. Feel free to ask more, if the above is not satisfactory.

 

[OutHouse]

I do not agree with their views, and I hope you understand that most Muslims dont either.

well why dont you do something about it.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Citrix

I do not agree with their views, and I hope you understand that most Muslims dont either.

well why dont you do something about it.

huh? who? what?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Citrix

I do not agree with their views, and I hope you understand that most Muslims dont either.

well why dont you do something about it.

And what are YOU doing about it?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan
The source of the Quran is God. Angel Gabriel communicated the message of God to Prophet Mohammad (S.A). The Prophet then narrated the messages to his companions over a period of approximately 2 decades; these companions memorized the Quran, or wrote it down in stone or preserved it by other means.

Thanks for asking. Feel free to ask more, if the above is not satisfactory.

So don't many Muslims feel that the Quran is the literal word of God and does not contain any mistakes? But how can you know if it is the literal word of God if one man relayed it to others who memorized it and then wrote it down? It seems to be more the word of God as written and interpreted by man.

 

[dszd0g]

Originally posted by: ariafrost
It is not like Christianity. Christianity is the only religion that I know of that is unique and doesn't copy from other religions.

I am going a little off topic here. I hope that was a joke though. If not and you are a Christian you should learn more about your religion.

Lets just start with the recent Christmas:

The Mistletoe is traced at least back to Norse myths. Frigga is the Norse Goddess of love, marriage, and fertility. Loki slayed her son, Balder, with an arrow made from the mistletoe. Balder was restored to life, and Frigga blessed the mistletoe and gave a kiss to anyone who passed under it.

The Christmas tree dates at least back to the Roman festival of Saturnalia along with gift giving. The Romans presented their emperor and each other with tokens of good luck, called strenae. The modern Christmas tree only dates back to nineteenth-century Germany. Gift giving was done around the Yule log in some Pagan religions.

The Roman festival of the winter solstice was celebrated on Dec 25 (dies natalis solis invictus). December 25th was the birthday of the son-god Mithra whose religious influence was widespread in the Roman Empire. In the year 274, Aurelian declared Deus Sol Invictus (Mithra) the official deity of the Roman Empire and built a huge temple in Rome and set the sun's birthday celebration as Dec 25 (the then accepted data for winter solstice). Prior to that Jesus's birth was celebrarted on 25 Pachon (May 20th). It was not until the fourth century that Pope Julius I declared that Dec 25th was the birth of Jesus and should be celebrated as Christmas.

Easter was originally based on the Vernal Equinox and was originally on a lunar calendar. The name Easter is derived from the Saxon Eostre, a Germanic goddess of spring and the deity who measured time. Eostre's themes were renewal and rebirth. The Easter egg was even part of the festival of Eostre, representing fertility and re-birth. Around 200 B.C.E the Cybele cult gained followers around the Vatican. They celebrated Attis, the god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a vergin, Attis died and was reborn annual. His festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday, and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection.

It was common practice for the early Church to adopt practices of other religions and bring it into Christianity to convert the people, but have them celebrate them in a "Christian" manner. In fact, the Church often spread its own stories to spread Christianity and destroy the pagan religions. The most famous of these stories is the legends of King Arthur. The King Arthur stories published by the Church took symbols of the pagan religions and twisted them, and turned Christianity into the savior. As an example it took the dragon, a pagan symbol of wisdom, and created a story where the dragon was sacrificed virgin girls. If one finds earlier translations, it is not hard to see the Church propaganda. It has faded over the years.

 

[housecat]

Nothing wrong with Islam that I know of. Its just that 90% of the people who are Islamic have no regard for human life unless its a fellow Muslim's.

Largest problem in my eyes is that even something like the beheadings are not being called out by the muslim clerics... would the Pope allow beheadings on TV to be performed on television in his religon's name?

He'd be doing what he could to stop it, and at least be speaking out against it.

These clerics in the middle east dont are at all. Real religous..

As a Christian (that does not believe Christianity is a passive religon like some do), we were attacked, therefore we have a right to defend ourselves as we see fit. (not as someone else see's fit.. UNITED NATIONS <-puke)

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan
The source of the Quran is God. Angel Gabriel communicated the message of God to Prophet Mohammad (S.A). The Prophet then narrated the messages to his companions over a period of approximately 2 decades; these companions memorized the Quran, or wrote it down in stone or preserved it by other means.

Thanks for asking. Feel free to ask more, if the above is not satisfactory.

So don't many Muslims feel that the Quran is the literal word of God and does not contain any mistakes? But how can you know if it is the literal word of God if one man relayed it to others who memorized it and then wrote it down? It seems to be more the word of God as written and interpreted by man.

That is correct. Muslims believe that the Quran is the literal word of God and does not contain any mistakes. God through His prophet conveyed His message to the people. The prophet then narrated and taught God's messages to the people. Interpretations of God's commands is in the form of the actions and saying of the prophet, called Sunnah and Hadith.

Thanks for asking.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: housecat
Nothing wrong with Islam that I know of. Its just that 90% of the people who are Islamic have no regard for human life unless its a fellow Muslim's.

Largest problem in my eyes is that even something like the beheadings are not being called out by the muslim clerics... would the Pope allow beheadings on TV to be performed on television in his religon's name?

He'd be doing what he could to stop it, and at least be speaking out against it.

These clerics in the middle east dont are at all. Real religous..

As a Christian (that does not believe Christianity is a passive religon like some do), we were attacked, therefore we have a right to defend ourselves as we see fit. (not as someone else see's fit.. UNITED NATIONS <-puke)

While all the above accusations are without merit, and have been falsified in other threads/posts, I have not heard the Pope, any priest/cardinal/bishop/whatever criticize what happened at Abu Gharib. Neither did I see them criticize the recent forcible drowning by the US soldiers. Actions by your fellow Chrisitians are not worth apologies, is it?

And to correct you, Iraq did not attack this country. So this claim is also without merit. False claims do not automatically give this country any right to attack a sovereign nation, kill, torture, main, physically, mentally and sexually abuse Iraqi civilians and then hold the moral superiority by arguing those who behead are evil, while we are angels.

Please keep politics out of this thread.It is meant to make people aware of religious teachings, and teachings only.

 

[dszd0g]

Originally posted by: Sultan
While all the above accusations are without merit, and have been falsified in other threads/posts, I have not heard the Pope, any priest/cardinal/bishop/whatever criticize what happened at Abu Gharib. Neither did I see them criticize the recent forcible drowning by the US soldiers. Actions by your fellow Chrisitians are not worth apologies, is it?

Actually many priests have come out against Abu Gharib and some against Iraq as a whole. Outside the US I believe the majority of priests have been against the US crimes ("war") in Iraq.

Pope renews criticism of American abuses in Iraq

I am not Christian, but I like to stick to the facts in any case. If someone is going to pick on Christianity, they should do it for valid reasons (there is no shortage).

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: dszd0g

Originally posted by: Sultan
While all the above accusations are without merit, and have been falsified in other threads/posts, I have not heard the Pope, any priest/cardinal/bishop/whatever criticize what happened at Abu Gharib. Neither did I see them criticize the recent forcible drowning by the US soldiers. Actions by your fellow Chrisitians are not worth apologies, is it?

Actually many priests have come out against Abu Gharib and some against Iraq as a whole. Outside the US I believe the majority of priests have been against the US crimes ("war") in Iraq.

Pope renews criticism of American abuses in Iraq

I am not Christian, but I like to stick to the facts in any case. If someone is going to pick on Christianity, they should do it for valid reasons (there is no shortage).

I like your style. I stand corrected. Thank you for providing the link from the Houston Chronicle. Now if you can make the same effort and also correct housecat, then I'll also believe that you like to 'stick to facts'

By the way, the Pope did NOT mention the Abu Gharib prison scandal in any of his speeches. But good find nonetheless. :thumbsup:

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: housecat
Nothing wrong with Islam that I know of. Its just that 90% of the people who are Islamic have no regard for human life unless its a fellow Muslim's.

Largest problem in my eyes is that even something like the beheadings are not being called out by the muslim clerics... would the Pope allow beheadings on TV to be performed on television in his religon's name?

He'd be doing what he could to stop it, and at least be speaking out against it.

These clerics in the middle east dont are at all. Real religous..

As a Christian (that does not believe Christianity is a passive religon like some do), we were attacked, therefore we have a right to defend ourselves as we see fit. (not as someone else see's fit.. UNITED NATIONS <-puke)

LOL.

 

[dszd0g]

Originally posted by: Sultan
I like your style. I stand corrected. Thank you for providing the link from the Houston Chronicle. Now if you can make the same effort and also correct housecat, then I'll also believe that you like to 'stick to facts'

I thought your statement "all the above accusations are without merit, and have been falsified in other threads/posts" was sufficient. Housecat's statements have already been shown to be false even in this thread. Anyone can read this thread and quote the relevant posts if they wish to dispute that. Please do so if anyone has facts that support housecat's claims. There are enough middle east "experts" right now that there should be no shortage of studies. I have not seen any that come close to Housecat's claims. I did not feel that I had to comment, but I have now.

I just did a quick google, and a few articles to dispute what Housecat said anyways:

Addressing the Sources of Middle Eastern Violence Against the United States
Middle East Facts and Fictions

I particularly liked this quote: "Americans have far more to fear from home-grown, mentally disturbed high school students inspired by the latest overly violent Hollywood film than they do from the world's Muslims, fundamentalist or not."

Historical Dictionary of Islamic Fundamentalist Movements in the Arab World, Iran, and Turkey

By the way, the Pope did NOT mention the Abu Gharib prison scandal in any of his speeches. But good find nonetheless. :thumbsup:

I was not there for any of his speeches, but most of the articles I have seen say something like the Pope "renewed his criticism of American abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison." It would be very time consuming to try and find a quote where he mentions it by name. Even if he does not mention it by name, he gave speeches the day after the Abu Ghraib scandal. It is also often the style of religous leaders when giving sermons to take a "you know who you are" method rather than naming names. I do not know if that is the case here, but from the articles I have read there seems to be no debate that he was referring to Abu Ghraib.

As a somewhat on topic question, I notice you spell Abu Ghraib differently than the news articles I have seen. I am not familiar with Arabic. Some languages have multiple ways of spelling their words in English. Is that the case with Arabic? Is this a mistake on the part of American media? Is this a typo on your part? If it is the last, accept my appologies for bringing it up. I know most people do not like their spelling corrected.

What disturbs me most of the Abu Ghraib is that most Americans are unwilling to admit that the orders came from the White house, when there is a written memo from Bush's White House lawyer (But this is for another post, see my thread
My 10 reasons why I want Bush out of the Whitehouse if you wish to discuss this).

 

[dszd0g]

Here is another site that makes all sorts of bad claims about Islam after claiming to have researched the religion heavily. I came across this link in another thread on AT. It is easy to believe these claims if one does not double check the facts.

Prophet of Doom

Compare his translations to those found here:

The Noble Qur'an

It is not hard to see where he went wrong.

 

[dszd0g]

One more question, what is the Tabari? Is there a good translation online?

 

[bpatters69]

Ok. Is it true that many Muslims see the Tsunami's as an act of God and that the victims were somehow being punished?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: bpatters69
Ok. Is it true that many Muslims see the Tsunami's as an act of God and that the victims were somehow being punished?

lol. While that doesnt count as an Islamic theology question, I'll go ahead and satisfy your question.

Many Muslims of South East Asia view this as an act of God to find a reason for the widespread devastation. Many tther Muslims of the Middle East view it as a conspiracy, be it USA/Russia/India/Israel Nuclear testing, or Aliens, or whatever.

I just see it as a natural disaster. I would imagine most Muslims view it the same way I do

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: bpatters69
Ok. Is it true that many Muslims see the Tsunami's as an act of God and that the victims were somehow being punished?

How would he or I know what "many" Muslims think about the tsunami?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: bpatters69
Ok. Is it true that many Muslims see the Tsunami's as an act of God and that the victims were somehow being punished?

How would he or I know what "many" Muslims think about the tsunami?

stop crapping in my thread laimster. i already answered his question. take ur neffing elsewhere.

 

[Sultan]

any interesting questions?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Sultan
any interesting questions?

yes, is it true that the gazi think of the world as being muslim and non muslim

i mean they truly think of it as a war between believers and non believers. im sure you know what the gazi is