The joy of religion - part xxxxxxxxx

[realibrad]

Well you guys clearly suck at being spiritual.

You suck at being a hipster, which is a pretty big insult for someone who is in SF.

I miss the bay area.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Do you find anything that shows a study that purports to show a god spot? I see lots of people saying there is not one, but I cant find anything where people said there was one in their findings.

Surely you've heard about the "God helmet"? It was invented in the 80's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

http://www.examiner.com/article/god-helmet-inventor-creates-telepathy

 

[shira]

My response would be that God did a real dick move by creating me with horribly limited perception to know who or what he is. He is also a dick for creating a world where he knew we would end up with massive amounts of suffering because of the flaws he built us with.

If it takes belief without evidence to be able to see him and he knew when he created me that I would not be able to see him because I am logical and rational, then he simply created me to eventually end up in hell.

How did you manage to say all that about a god you have no evidence exists?

You have a very clear picture of the god you have no evidence for, a God you would hate if he did exist.

Do you believe in any God? If so, do you have a clear picture of the God you believe in, do you have any evidence that the God you believe in exists, and do you believe the God you believe in is a dick. Do you therefore feel hate for the God you believe in?

 

[realibrad]

Surely you've heard about the "God helmet"? It was invented in the 80's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

http://www.examiner.com/article/god-helmet-inventor-creates-telepathy

What about the helmet would signify a specific spot in the brain being attributed to god?

The goal of the helmet was to test other things, but some said they felt a spiritual feeling. I dont see where his research would lead anyone to thinking there would be single spot in the brain for god.

 

[Moonbeam]

shira: Do you believe in any God?

M: I do not believe in any God. I know God exists. We will call that a yes for the purposes of your next question.

s: If so, do you have a clear picture of the God you believe in, do you have any evidence that the God you believe in exists,

M: Clear picture, yes. Evidence, yes.

s: and do you believe the God you believe in is a dick. Do you therefore feel hate for the God you believe in?

M: No and NA.

 

[bshole]

shira: Do you believe in any God?

M: I do not believe in any God. I know God exists. We will call that a yes for the purposes of your next question.

s: If so, do you have a clear picture of the God you believe in, do you have any evidence that the God you believe in exists,

M: Clear picture, yes. Evidence, yes.

s: and do you believe the God you believe in is a dick. Do you therefore feel hate for the God you believe in?

M: No and NA.

You believe in a God that isn't a psychotic douche? Really? Have you looked around you at all? All the miserable people? All the needless and pointless suffering? The inanity of life? I sure the hell could create a world with much less suffering than your God did. Please send me your happy pills cause they really seem to be working for you.

 

[Moonbeam]

bshole: You believe in a God that isn't a psychotic douche?

M: Of course.

b: Really?

M: You mean to tell me you believe in one that is. That would be just crazy.

B: Have you looked around you at all? All the miserable people? All the needless and pointless suffering? The inanity of life?

M: Why else do you think I would patiently suffer all the wonderful insults I get here.

b: I sure the hell could create a world with much less suffering than your God did.

M: Not only is that opinion fundamentally ignorant, you would be lucky if you could change anything.

b: Please send me your happy pills cause they really seem to be working for you.

M: I will do what I can. Are you more emotionally aware than railibrad?

Do you know you hate the God you think I believe in? Right down to your toes, I should think.

 

[Moonbeam]

And how do you know you are in fact right and not being deceived to your own self hate? Did i do that right? The self hate bit? Maybe you are delusional and what you perceive as reality is all in your head.

Some things you just know instinctively.

 

[shira]

Some things you just know instinctively.

Describe the God you believe in.

 

[werepossum]

I almost never do this, but that is something that atheism and religion have in common. Atheist very often feel superior to believers because they know the truth. I have met atheist who claim atheism because only stupid people believe in a god{s}. That might be true, but when you question why they do not believe in a god, their answers illogical. For those people, atheism is about feeling smarter than others.

Spot-on. Atheism is one of the few areas where people are aggressive in pushing what they don't believe. The ability to feel superior without actually accomplishing anything has, as always, a powerful seduction.

 

[trenchfoot]

This was an interesting read about atheism being a religion in and of itself:

http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

 

[JEDIYoda]

This was an interesting read about atheism being a religion in and of itself:

http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

+Thats old news!! Atheist Churches are springing up everywhere!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Describe the God you believe in.

Nice try....if at first you don`t succeed use an Atheist talking point to try to confuse the issue....

 

[sandorski]

This was an interesting read about atheism being a religion in and of itself:

http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

This video, in response to an Atheists blog concerning the recent school shooter, is what in my experience most Atheists consider Atheism. AKA, not a Religion.

Logicked's response to PZ Meyers

 

[maluckey]

I a fine wine would still taste like shit to me, because I don't like wine.

In Haiti, some people believe that spirits can take over your body. People feel these spirits do this. They also believe that the spirits can speak through people and give advice or cures. In the Haiti Vodou, you can never reach god directly, which is mutually exclusive to Christianity where you can pray. In the Vodou of Haiti, you can only talk to god through lesser spirits.

These people feel that Vodou is correct and you feel you are correct. How can both people feel they are right without one being wrong?

Good question, and much appreciated.

There are many paths one can take in life. I can choose a scenic path to grandmas house, or take the highway, or literally dozen of other ways. There are virtually an infinite number of ways to say the same thing, and arrive at the same mental conclusion. Who's to say one way is right and the other wrong? Not myself, and of THAT... I am certain. I CAN share my thoughts (for whatever there worth) to those that may listen, and share how it changed me. Beyond that, it's up to them (the whole "lead a horse to water" thing).

M

 

[soulcougher73]

+Thats old news!! Atheist Churches are springing up everywhere!!

I've never personally seen an Athiest Church and as an athiest i would think that is silly, but if their are. Are you feeling threatened? Are they encrouching on your perceived domain?

 

[realibrad]

Good question, and much appreciated.

There are many paths one can take in life. I can choose a scenic path to grandmas house, or take the highway, or literally dozen of other ways. There are virtually an infinite number of ways to say the same thing, and arrive at the same mental conclusion. Who's to say one way is right and the other wrong? Not myself, and of THAT... I am certain. I CAN share my thoughts (for whatever there worth) to those that may listen, and share how it changed me. Beyond that, it's up to them (the whole "lead a horse to water" thing).

M

If you are a follower of any of the major religions, you are taking a stance on some people being wrong. The Christian god is the thing that created everything. The fact that god is a creator is mutually exclusive to religions where there is not a creator god. Further, the story of how god created everything is mutually exclusive to other beliefs. By saying you believe in the Christian god, you are indirectly saying you think the others are wrong in their stories.

You dont have to explicitly say you think someone is wrong, but its the logical conclusion. I have had this discussion with my GF who is a Catholic. She also made the same point that she did not feel she was qualified to say what is wrong or right.

By saying you believe one thing, you are believing that thing over another. That is to say that you believe that one thing is right, which would make the other mutually exclusive things incorrect.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I've never personally seen an Athiest Church and as an athiest i would think that is silly, but if their are. Are you feeling threatened? Are they encrouching on your perceived domain?

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[soulcougher73]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[soulcougher73]

If you are a follower of any of the major religions, you are taking a stance on some people being wrong. The Christian god is the thing that created everything. The fact that god is a creator is mutually exclusive to religions where there is not a creator god. Further, the story of how god created everything is mutually exclusive to other beliefs. By saying you believe in the Christian god, you are indirectly saying you think the others are wrong in their stories.

You dont have to explicitly say you think someone is wrong, but its the logical conclusion. I have had this discussion with my GF who is a Catholic. She also made the same point that she did not feel she was qualified to say what is wrong or right.

By saying you believe one thing, you are believing that thing over another. That is to say that you believe that one thing is right, which would make the other mutually exclusive things incorrect.

Also, don't forget the fact 99% of believers believe the first one they are exposed to without ever caring to look into all the other religions of the world. Seems silly to dismiss hundreds of other religions as wrong without knowing a thing about them. Especially when its something you would think a believer in a god would want to get right. Silly believers.

 

[realibrad]

This was an interesting read about atheism being a religion in and of itself:

http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

So, the very first citation is pretty dumb. It uses the definition of atheism from the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy as written by William L. Rowe.

For some background on Mr Rowe, he wrote a paper called "The problem of evil and some varieties of atheism".

Here is the 2nd sentence of the paper.

Is there an argument for atheism based on the existence of evil that may rationally justify someone being an atheist?

He then answers the following.

To this first question I give an affirmative answer and try to support that answer by setting forth a strong argument for atheism based on the existence of evil.

If the foundation for the article comes from that, then its likely to lead to dumb claims. Like "Atheists often claim that their believe is not a religion". Atheists don't have a believe, they lack belief.

I know some atheists have created atheist churches as a joke. Further, I have no doubt that some people are trying to make atheism into a religion as the structure is comforting to some. That does not make atheism a religion.

*edit. Forgot to link the paper.
https://www.kul.pl/files/57/nauka/Rowe_The_Problem_of_Evil.pdf

 

[shira]

Nice try....if at first you don`t succeed use an Atheist talking point to try to confuse the issue....

I just get tired of people saying all kinds of vague stuff about God, even criticizing others for having a negative impression about God, since (if believers are to be believed) this is the world that God created, and He knew exactly how it would turn out before he even performed the creation process.

So a reasonable question is: tell me about this God you believe in. Be specific.

Moonbeam ended one of his posts by writing "Do you know you hate the God you think I believe in? Right down to your toes, I should think." Just so there won't be any confusion going forward, I've made a completely reasonable request to him, asking that he provide a description of the God he ACTUALLY believes in.

 

[Moonbeam]

Describe the God you believe in.

As I said, I do not believe, I know through experience. God is within you, one could say, vibrating on a different octave, or on a different plane. He is the ground of your being, what is left when the sense of a personal self recedes. Ones perceptions speed up burning the energy of need causing time to slow to down to pulses. Consciousness attaches itself as a witness to creation as the universe comes into being, moment by moment according to conscious will. Where the self was a hole in the fabric of the universe appears. You step out and God steps in to manifest His love in your location in time and space.

Naturally there are distortions in this descriptions because the eye with which you see God is the same eye with which he sees you. So whe you see the unity of the universe through two eyes that are one you can't really tell if you are talking about one eye or the other.

You may also note that none of what I said will be of any importance unless you see it for yourself. As I have said many times, God only fills an empty cup.. Best you just forget everything I just said.

 

[Moonbeam]

I just get tired of people saying all kinds of vague stuff about God, even criticizing others for having a negative impression about God, since (if believers are to be believed) this is the world that God created, and He knew exactly how it would turn out before he even performed the creation process.

So a reasonable question is: tell me about this God you believe in. Be specific.

Moonbeam ended one of his posts by writing "Do you know you hate the God you think I believe in? Right down to your toes, I should think." Just so there won't be any confusion going forward, I've made a completely reasonable request to him, asking that he provide a description of the God he ACTUALLY believes in.

I don't criticize you for having a negative impression of God if you do, and it's all those Gods I don't like either. The fact that you don't like them is what helped me to see that God is real. You don't like a God who would have you kill your kid to prove your faith? Why do you think that is? Where do you come off with the nerve to do that? Why the outrage? There's no good or evil without God. Right?

 

[Moonbeam]

Spot-on. Atheism is one of the few areas where people are aggressive in pushing what they don't believe. The ability to feel superior without actually accomplishing anything has, as always, a powerful seduction.

Kind of hard to blame Atheists for despising religious people for all the clown gods they create to kill each other over.