The joy of religion - part xxxxxxxxx

[bshole]

You would be hard pressed to prove there is no God....

Since God is outside the natural world, he is obviously outside of the bounds of the scientific process. If he exists, he doesn't appear to have much interest in interacting with his creation. He could be a malevolent sadist who enjoys creating things to wallow in their misery for all we know or can prove. What we do know is that every single religion that ever existed had no rational basis for their beliefs. They were all made up by people with great imaginations or a God with a sick sense of humor (by putting in contradictions, unethical ideas and impossibilities).

 

[MagickMan]

Don't tell atheists the truth....they wont believe it. :whiste:

I *AM* an atheist, I just don't drink the "atheists are better people" kool-aid.

 

[MagickMan]

My god you're insufferable.

Aww... Go hug your fucking teddy bear.

...I have read the wiki articles. That's how I arrived to the conclusion that he's Christian.

Go read BSHole's post again. Reading's hard for you, seeing as how you keep skipping the quotes that have been posted, but you should give it a try.

I'll start you off with one of Hitler's quotes:

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter."

He said a lot of shit he didn't believe to get into power, like any other politician. I realize that, but you're too stupid to notice.

Premise 1: Every Christian is not a True Christian according to Some Christian

Premise 2: Hitler claimed to be a Christian

Conclusion: Hitler was not a True Christian

So, you're saying that a person is whatever they claim to be? Despite their actions (even denouncing what they formerly claimed to be)? That's a hell of a lot of doublethink, no one would ever confuse you for anything other than a Proggie, would they? :\

 

[sandorski]

Aww... Go hug your fucking teddy bear.



He said a lot of shit he didn't believe to get into power, like any other politician. I realize that, but you're too stupid to notice.



So, you're saying that a person is whatever they claim to be? Despite their actions (even denouncing what they formerly claimed to be)? That's a hell of a lot of doublethink, no one would ever confuse you for anything other than a Proggie, would they? :\

Did he denounce it? Yes, people are who they claim to be, unless their claims are knowingly made to deceive. That doesn't make them a good X, but if they think they are X, then they should be considered to be X.

The problem with this line of argument is that within Christianity no one can be considered to be Christian if you judge them according to other Christians judgements of what a Christian is. Most Protestants don't think Catholics are true Christians. Most Catholics don't consider Protestants true Christians. Pentecostals don't consider most Protestants as true Christians. Most Protestants don't consider Pentecostals true Christians. Catholics, Protestants, Pentecostals all agree that Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and others are not true Christians.

Regardless of how vile and evil Hitler was, Christian Germany certainly considered him to be Christian. Who am I or who are you to say he wasn't?

 

[MagickMan]

Did he denounce it? Yes, people are who they claim to be, unless their claims are knowingly made to deceive. That doesn't make them a good X, but if they think they are X, then they should be considered to be X.

Yes, he denounced it.

"The only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.
Christianity is the liar. We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." - Adolf Hitler, Oct. 1941

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." - Adolf Hitler, Dec. 1941

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie." - Adolf Hitler, Feb. 1942

and on, and on, and on... Need more?

As I said before. He used religion, specifically Christianity, to gain power, but he didn't believe in it. It was merely a means to an end.

 

[sandorski]

Yes, he denounced it.

"The only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.
Christianity is the liar. We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." - Adolf Hitler, Oct. 1941

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." - Adolf Hitler, Dec. 1941

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie." - Adolf Hitler, Feb. 1942

and on, and on, and on... Need more?

As I said before. He used religion, specifically Christianity, to gain power, but he didn't believe in it. It was merely a means to an end.

Wt are the sources of these quotes?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You would be hard pressed to prove there is no God....

Have I ever purported to do such a thing?

 

[buckshot24]

Regardless of how vile and evil Hitler was, Christian Germany certainly considered him to be Christian. Who am I or who are you to say he wasn't?

Killing 6 million Jews just doesn't jive with the teachings of Jesus (who was a Jew).

If I said I wasn't a racist but attended Klan meetings regularly what would you believe?

 

[buckshot24]

We are told ad nauseam about how - without God, without religion - humankind wouldn't have morality. And as long as we atheists accept that "moral behavior" can include rape and murder, I guess we have no basis to disagree.

If there is no God and we are just evolved animals there is ultimately nothing wrong with rape and murder.

Atheists can act morally, they can't ultimately justify acting morally within a purely naturalistic worldview.

 

[buckshot24]

Wt are the sources of these quotes?

Looks like that book "Table Talk" which may or may not be a legitimate source.

I don't really care what Hitler said, I care about what he did.

 

[WelshBloke]

If there is no God and we are just evolved animals there is ultimately nothing wrong with rape and murder.

Ummm. The bad thing about raping or murdering someone is that you're raping or murdering them. Not that you're offending god by doing it.

It's bad because you're causing extreme suffering to a fellow human being not because a book says that it's bad.

 

[buckshot24]

Ummm. The bad thing about raping or murdering someone is that you're raping or murdering them. Not that you're offending god by doing it.

It's bad because you're causing extreme suffering to a fellow human being not because a book says that it's bad.

Is it bad when a chimp rapes another chimp?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Since God is outside the natural world, he is obviously outside of the bounds of the scientific process. If he exists, he doesn't appear to have much interest in interacting with his creation. He could be a malevolent sadist who enjoys creating things to wallow in their misery for all we know or can prove. What we do know is that every single religion that ever existed had no rational basis for their beliefs. They were all made up by people with great imaginations or a God with a sick sense of humor (by putting in contradictions, unethical ideas and impossibilities).

again you would be hard pressed to prove there was no God......see how that works???

 

[buckshot24]

What we do know is that every single religion that ever existed had no rational basis for their beliefs.

Do you have anything to back up this statement? Since "we" know it you should be able to substantiate this claim.

We have no rational basis to believe molecules self organized into living things and all atheists believe this. Picking and choosing.

 

[sandorski]

Killing 6 million Jews just doesn't jive with the teachings of Jesus (who was a Jew).

If I said I wasn't a racist but attended Klan meetings regularly what would you believe?

Perhaps not Jesus, but it certainly is not inconsistent with the commands of Yahweh. Given that Yahweh and Jesus are allegedly the same god, it is not much of a stretch for someone to interpret killing Jews as an act of righteousness. This is especially likely after centuries of Christians persecuting and hating the Jews. Something else not taught by Jesus, yet perpetrated by Christians.

 

[sandorski]

Looks like that book "Table Talk" which may or may not be a legitimate source.

I don't really care what Hitler said, I care about what he did.

I agree.

 

[sandorski]

Is it bad when a chimp rapes another chimp?

Wouldn't that be up to Chimps to decide?

 

[bshole]

Do you have anything to back up this statement? Since "we" know it you should be able to substantiate this claim.

We have no rational basis to believe molecules self organized into living things and all atheists believe this. Picking and choosing.

Take Christianity for example. Death penalty for not observing the Sabbath, death penalty for not honoring your parents, God asking people to sacrifice their kids to him, slavery ok, genocide ok, rape and murder of your enemies ok, Noah's ark, someone living in the belly of a whale for 3 days, God toruring Job to impress Satan, God believing that the entire world could be observed from a mountaintop, God thinking that he could stop the sun in the sky without killing all life on earth (conservation of momentum), God having children eaten alive by bears because they laughed at a prophet, God changing his mind, God putting a tree in the garden of Eden in order that Adam would sin knowing apriori that it would happen, God punishing the whole of humanity for the sin of one (Adam), complete and utter lack of consistency of Jesus's last days on earth between the gospels. The list of problems is almost endless.

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Why does God think that rabbits chew cud? Why does God think disease come from evil spirits?

 

[JD50]

If there is no God and we are just evolved animals there is ultimately nothing wrong with rape and murder.

Atheists can act morally, they can't ultimately justify acting morally within a purely naturalistic worldview.

I find it a little scary that you need a book to tell you that you shouldn't rape and murder anyone.

 

[bshole]

I find it a little scary that you need a book to tell you that you shouldn't rape and murder anyone.

His book also tells him not to eat shellfish or work on the Sabbath, he has decided that he is better than God and doesn't have to obey those particular laws. Basically if God's law inconviences him in any way, it doesn't apply to hijm.

 

[MajinCry]

His book also tells him not to eat shellfish or work on the Sabbath, he has decided that he is better than God and doesn't have to obey those particular laws. Basically if God's law inconviences him in any way, it doesn't apply to hijm.

Hell, the book actually commands rape and murder.

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

Deuteronomy 17:12

Those are two fine examples. The first commands rape as a spoil of war, the second commands the slaughter of those that reject a verdict made by a religious man.

But we've been through this. Several times, in fact. The religious lads continue to put their fingers in their ears and block out that which makes them uncomfortable.

 

[buckshot24]

Perhaps not Jesus, but it certainly is not inconsistent with the commands of Yahweh. Given that Yahweh and Jesus are allegedly the same god, it is not much of a stretch for someone to interpret killing Jews as an act of righteousness. This is especially likely after centuries of Christians persecuting and hating the Jews. Something else not taught by Jesus, yet perpetrated by Christians.

People who called themselves Christians did in fact do lots of things that go DIRECTLY against the teachings of Jesus, I'm not sure how that has anything to do with anything.

 

[buckshot24]

Wouldn't that be up to Chimps to decide?

What do you think? Is it bad for a chimp to rape another chimp?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

People who called themselves Christians did in fact do lots of things that go DIRECTLY against the teachings of Jesus, I'm not sure how that has anything to do with anything.

It helps them rationalize their world view.

 

[buckshot24]

Take Christianity for example. Death penalty for not observing the Sabbath, death penalty for not honoring your parents, God asking people to sacrifice their kids to him, slavery ok, genocide ok, rape and murder of your enemies ok, Noah's ark, someone living in the belly of a whale for 3 days, God toruring Job to impress Satan, God believing that the entire world could be observed from a mountaintop, God thinking that he could stop the sun in the sky without killing all life on earth (conservation of momentum), God having children eaten alive by bears because they laughed at a prophet, God changing his mind, God putting a tree in the garden of Eden in order that Adam would sin knowing apriori that it would happen, God punishing the whole of humanity for the sin of one (Adam), complete and utter lack of consistency of Jesus's last days on earth between the gospels. The list of problems is almost endless.

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Why does God think that rabbits chew cud? Why does God think disease come from evil spirits?

None of that substantiates your assertion. Please try again.