The joy of religion - part xxxxxxxxx

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MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
I want to see it too, if for no other reason than to use it myself. Disprove the existence of Krishna, that would be great to have at airports while I'm stuck during a layover.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,943
542
126
Definition: G is omnipotent if it can perform any logically consistent action.

Let S represent the set of all logically consistent actions G can perform.
Let P(S) = the act of considering performing all actions in S simultaneously.
P(S) is a logically consistent action which is not in S. Contradiction: G is not omnipotent.

Any definition of God which features omnipotence as an attribute is incoherent, because it is always possible to construct a logically consistent action which is not among the set of actions which that God can perform. Thanks, Cantor.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,702
6,198
126

The only reason you shit of the idea of joy is that you used to be joyous and it was taken from you. The inner contempt for life that you feel and are not conscious of is caused by your fear to know what you feel. You will not feel your misery because it hurts. You spit on joy because you were made to feel you don't deserve it. But you deserve it as much as anybody does.

"Did you but suffer you would not suffer." A saying attributed to Christ.

The Hero's journey in all world mythology takes him through hell. There is generally some monster, self hate, that screams insults to turn him away, or which will turn him to stone if he looks directly. This is why the Hero may carry a mirror as well as a sword to cut the monster's head off. I just gave you the mirror, but you must wield the sword.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Used to be joyous? I feel joy and happiness every day. I've always heard that laughter lowers one's stress levels. I look at this thread and many others in the forum to get my daily dose of laughter.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,702
6,198
126
Used to be joyous? I feel joy and happiness every day. I've always heard that laughter lowers one's stress levels. I look at this thread and many others in the forum to get my daily dose of laughter.

That kind of laughter isn't anything at all to do with joy. You are laughing at others because you feel superior. You feel superior because you have an unconscious need to feel that way. That unconscious need derives from the fact that you actually feel inferior. Naturally, you are not inferior; it's just a feeliing. Thus you live in the delusion that you are happy because you have an illusionary sense of being better than others. That is not an organic happiness because it's artificial. Because you are actually not inferior you don't actually need to indulge in such behavior. The only real feeling you should have is sadness that others feel bad. That is why you will feel even better if you try to bring others hope and light rather than derisive laughter.

Don't feel bad about what you see in the mirror. It has to be the way you see it when you are blind. We are all that way. We are all the same
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
Definition: G is omnipotent if it can perform any logically consistent action.

Let S represent the set of all logically consistent actions G can perform.
Let P(S) = the act of considering performing all actions in S simultaneously.
P(S) is a logically consistent action which is not in S. Contradiction: G is not omnipotent.

Any definition of God which features omnipotence as an attribute is incoherent, because it is always possible to construct a logically consistent action which is not among the set of actions which that God can perform. Thanks, Cantor.

That only works in 4D space, not if G is external.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,943
542
126
That only works in 4D space, not if G is external.

Green ideas sleep furiously.

Edit: I'll expand, since you're not likely astute enough to get the point.

The above is a logical argument, which means it is true in all universes. Your suggestion of some kind of exception "external" to "4D space" is nonsensical, and reveals your own ignorance of the scope of logical arguments. God is not a "get-out-of-logical-jail-free" card.
 
Last edited:

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
The only reason you shit of the idea of joy is that you used to be joyous and it was taken from you. The inner contempt for life that you feel and are not conscious of is caused by your fear to know what you feel. You will not feel your misery because it hurts. You spit on joy because you were made to feel you don't deserve it. But you deserve it as much as anybody does.

"Did you but suffer you would not suffer." A saying attributed to Christ.

The Hero's journey in all world mythology takes him through hell. There is generally some monster, self hate, that screams insults to turn him away, or which will turn him to stone if he looks directly. This is why the Hero may carry a mirror as well as a sword to cut the monster's head off. I just gave you the mirror, but you must wield the sword.

That kind of laughter isn't anything at all to do with joy. You are laughing at others because you feel superior. You feel superior because you have an unconscious need to feel that way. That unconscious need derives from the fact that you actually feel inferior. Naturally, you are not inferior; it's just a feeliing. Thus you live in the delusion that you are happy because you have an illusionary sense of being better than others. That is not an organic happiness because it's artificial. Because you are actually not inferior you don't actually need to indulge in such behavior. The only real feeling you should have is sadness that others feel bad. That is why you will feel even better if you try to bring others hope and light rather than derisive laughter.

Don't feel bad about what you see in the mirror. It has to be the way you see it when you are blind. We are all that way. We are all the same

Your misery is evident by the way you attempt to drag down, mock, and bully others. IOW, your message falls flat because you're a nasty wise and beautiful woman, that's the difference between you and Jesus. :\
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Something like that, yes:

His epiphany occurred as he imagined a car driving away from the town clock tower at the speed of light. If the car moved at the speed of light, the tower's clock would appear fixed to someone in the car. The clock's light could not catch up to the streetcar, but the car's clock would beat normally to the person inside.

from: http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news...n-Publishes-Theory-of-Special-Relativity.html
This is an interesting "epiphany," considering that it's totally at odds with Special Relatively. It's NOT correct that "[T]he clock's light could not catch up to the streetcar." In fact, the clock's light would catch up to and pass the streetcar . . . at the speed of light.

Remember, one of the two postulates of Special Relativity is the invariance of the the speed of light in a vacuum. The corollary of this is that there is no absolute frame of reference. Thus, a streetcar travelling at the speed of light is just like any other inertial reference frame, indistinguishable from each other. Thus, anyone on the streetcar would measure the speed of light - including light from the clock tower - as c.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
This is an interesting "epiphany," considering that it's totally at odds with Special Relatively. It's NOT correct that "[T]he clock's light could not catch up to the streetcar." In fact, the clock's light would catch up to and pass the streetcar . . . at the speed of light.

Remember, one of the two postulates of Special Relativity is the invariance of the the speed of light in a vacuum. The corollary of this is that there is no absolute frame of reference. Thus, a streetcar travelling at the speed of light is just like any other inertial reference frame, indistinguishable from each other. Thus, anyone on the streetcar would measure the speed of light - including light from the clock tower - as c.

Are you trying to tell me you don't get it? Because you sound exactly like someone who doesn't get it. Try reading what I quoted again if/when you're thinking a bit clearer. Here are some genuinely helpful suggestions: 1) Get enough sleep. 2) Have something to eat/Make sure your blood glucose levels are normal.

I'll put it into my own words in case it helps:

The streetcar has passed the clocktower. The streetcar is moving at c. The light bouncing off the clock tower is also traveling at c. The light from the clocktower will not catch up to the streetcar. They are both moving at the same speed but there is a non-zero distance between them.
 
Last edited:

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,702
6,198
126
This is an interesting "epiphany," considering that it's totally at odds with Special Relatively. It's NOT correct that "[T]he clock's light could not catch up to the streetcar." In fact, the clock's light would catch up to and pass the streetcar . . . at the speed of light.

Remember, one of the two postulates of Special Relativity is the invariance of the the speed of light in a vacuum. The corollary of this is that there is no absolute frame of reference. Thus, a streetcar travelling at the speed of light is just like any other inertial reference frame, indistinguishable from each other. Thus, anyone on the streetcar would measure the speed of light - including light from the clock tower - as c.

The streetcar can't be a streetcar though, it has to be a photon of light because a street car can't be accelerated to the speed of light. At the speed of light something traveling at the speed of light behind you can't catch up because at the speed of light time has stopped or so it seems to me.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
That kind of laughter isn't anything at all to do with joy. You are laughing at others because you feel superior. You feel superior because you have an unconscious need to feel that way. That unconscious need derives from the fact that you actually feel inferior. Naturally, you are not inferior; it's just a feeliing. Thus you live in the delusion that you are happy because you have an illusionary sense of being better than others. That is not an organic happiness because it's artificial. Because you are actually not inferior you don't actually need to indulge in such behavior. The only real feeling you should have is sadness that others feel bad. That is why you will feel even better if you try to bring others hope and light rather than derisive laughter.

Don't feel bad about what you see in the mirror. It has to be the way you see it when you are blind. We are all that way. We are all the same

LMAO!!!! This so hilarious coming from the person who tries so hard to prove how superior they are to others in the forum. Your ego and hatred blinds you.

As for being happy. Yes, I tend to be happy most of the time though there are times when I'm not. Usually spending time with my grandson makes me happy again as I get in touch with what's really important in life.

You on the other hand come in here to spew hatred towards those who think differently than yourself on almost a daily basis. I'm so glad I've never felt the need to do such.
 

Omar F1

Senior member
Sep 29, 2009
491
8
76
I'm bored....
............
We're all having fun, trust me, and here is an entertaining thought for you

It's in our faith actually, that all the living creatures out there, do in fact acknowledge and revere their God/creator; thus, faith isn't only limited to the Human race.

But I'd like to ask those scientists though: Why it was only one creature, out of thousands of similar kinds, that has survived the natural selection stage and evolved into a fully freely-thinking-mindset creature.
That isn't what happened. You are in desperate need of copious amounts of remedial education.
Ok, so it's not about the natural selection rather than the continuous development of a basic living cell into what we can observe these days, which happened since billions of years ago.
Yet, that theory still didn't figure out who did create and design that basic cell though.



"Before “Lucy,” There Was “Ardi”: First Major Analysis of One of Earliest Known Hominids Published in Science"

Because of its antiquity, Ardipithecus takes us closer to the still-elusive last common ancestor. However, many of its traits do not appear in modern-day African apes. One surprising conclusion, therefore, is that it is likely that the African apes have evolved extensively since we shared that last common ancestor, which thus makes living chimpanzees and gorillas poor models for the last common ancestor and for understanding our own evolution since that time.

http://www.aaas.org/news/“lucy”-the...one-earliest-known-hominids-published-science
Of course you don't actually believe that the Evolution theory is such a 100%-certain, conclusive, undebatable and backed by hard-proofed-evidence. I mean, those scientists doesn't looks like they've settled down yet on a complete framework for their scientific theory. The case is still under study and we would witness a new changes/updates for a long time to come.

That said, why would you completely ignore any argument or statement from those religious freaks and their ancient, probably forged, sacred books. Isn't it a debatable subject? why can't you give the slightest consideration for any of their heresy.


Sorry, I've taken a glance, and that theory can't answer my argument over why our inside organs/systems has had to be that complicated. A much simpler systems might have done it so well, one way or another. Well, take a look over that sensation of orgasm for instance, I believe half of it would be enough to continue the sexual reproduction process between all the living kinds.
How about our ages, who did set the reliability standard of our hearts.
Take a very thoughtful look into each and every system, then at least you may have understanding about my believe that the human was created as a human; a perfection compared to all other living species, especially when it comes to his brain.

If our eyes had developed from a very primitive state (like realibrad already pointed out) then why it didn't happen to all, since basically the very original livings went through almost the same circumstances. Yet, and after billions of years, we still can find some creatures with a similar primitive design that had long existed since the very beginning of life.


Can't our scientists abandon their bias for once, and give a slight hint about the possibility of an intentional design for those living creatures. Of course not, as then they'd have no choice but to believe in the God.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,702
6,198
126
LMAO!!!! This so hilarious coming from the person who tries so hard to prove how superior they are to others in the forum. Your ego and hatred blinds you.

As for being happy. Yes, I tend to be happy most of the time though there are times when I'm not. Usually spending time with my grandson makes me happy again as I get in touch with what's really important in life.

You on the other hand come in here to spew hatred towards those who think differently than yourself on almost a daily basis. I'm so glad I've never felt the need to do such.

Try to understand that being superior to you is a non-achievement. All it requires is maybe only an ounce or so of self awareness. For you, on the other hand, the thought that I might be superior to you is a killer. That's why you're always in competition mode. You don't want the superiority of others make you feel how inferior you really feel. I told you there are monsters you need to slay, monsters you will not see without a mirror. It is you who is the monster.

I like your statement about what is really important in life. How, do you suppose, you have the slightest idea what it is.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
Green ideas sleep furiously.

Edit: I'll expand, since you're not likely astute enough to get the point.

The above is a logical argument, which means it is true in all universes. Your suggestion of some kind of exception "external" to "4D space" is nonsensical, and reveals your own ignorance of the scope of logical arguments. God is not a "get-out-of-logical-jail-free" card.

No, but trying to explain relativistic quantum mechanics to you would be a lost cause, so I'll pass. :\
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
We're all having fun, trust me, and here is an entertaining thought for you

It's in our faith actually, that all the living creatures out there, do in fact acknowledge and revere their God/creator; thus, faith isn't only limited to the Human race.



Ok, so it's not about the natural selection rather than the continuous development of a basic living cell into what we can observe these days, which happened since billions of years ago.
Yet, that theory still didn't figure out who did create and design that basic cell though.




Of course you don't actually believe that the Evolution theory is such a 100%-certain, conclusive, undebatable and backed by hard-proofed-evidence. I mean, those scientists doesn't looks like they've settled down yet on a complete framework for their scientific theory. The case is still under study and we would witness a new changes/updates for a long time to come.

That said, why would you completely ignore any argument or statement from those religious freaks and their ancient, probably forged, sacred books. Isn't it a debatable subject? why can't you give the slightest consideration for any of their heresy.


Sorry, I've taken a glance, and that theory can't answer my argument over why our inside organs/systems has had to be that complicated. A much simpler systems might have done it so well, one way or another. Well, take a look over that sensation of orgasm for instance, I believe half of it would be enough to continue the sexual reproduction process between all the living kinds.
How about our ages, who did set the reliability standard of our hearts.
Take a very thoughtful look into each and every system, then at least you may have understanding about my believe that the human was created as a human; a perfection compared to all other living species, especially when it comes to his brain.

If our eyes had developed from a very primitive state (like realibrad already pointed out) then why it didn't happen to all, since basically the very original livings went through almost the same circumstances. Yet, and after billions of years, we still can find some creatures with a similar primitive design that had long existed since the very beginning of life.


Can't our scientists abandon their bias for once, and give a slight hint about the possibility of an intentional design for those living creatures. Of course not, as then they'd have no choice but to believe in the God.

If you could Show a Designer, then perhaps we could agree there is Design.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
Even if there's a type of Design, that doesn't mean there's a Designer. It just means there's symmetry.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
You seem to be overlooking that very real possibility that exactly no one will "ever know he was right," for the simple reason that every single person who has every existed will eventually die, and nothing of any of them will continue beyond their deaths. Nothing.

Again, you missed most of the threads finer points. It is not possible in your reality, being a non-believer, to continue existence after physical death. It is possible in the reality of a believer to continue after death.

In your reality, death is always the end.

M
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
We're all having fun, trust me, and here is an entertaining thought for you

It's in our faith actually, that all the living creatures out there, do in fact acknowledge and revere their God/creator; thus, faith isn't only limited to the Human race.



Ok, so it's not about the natural selection rather than the continuous development of a basic living cell into what we can observe these days, which happened since billions of years ago.
Yet, that theory still didn't figure out who did create and design that basic cell though.




Of course you don't actually believe that the Evolution theory is such a 100%-certain, conclusive, undebatable and backed by hard-proofed-evidence. I mean, those scientists doesn't looks like they've settled down yet on a complete framework for their scientific theory. The case is still under study and we would witness a new changes/updates for a long time to come.

That said, why would you completely ignore any argument or statement from those religious freaks and their ancient, probably forged, sacred books. Isn't it a debatable subject? why can't you give the slightest consideration for any of their heresy.


Sorry, I've taken a glance, and that theory can't answer my argument over why our inside organs/systems has had to be that complicated. A much simpler systems might have done it so well, one way or another. Well, take a look over that sensation of orgasm for instance, I believe half of it would be enough to continue the sexual reproduction process between all the living kinds.
How about our ages, who did set the reliability standard of our hearts.
Take a very thoughtful look into each and every system, then at least you may have understanding about my believe that the human was created as a human; a perfection compared to all other living species, especially when it comes to his brain.

If our eyes had developed from a very primitive state (like realibrad already pointed out) then why it didn't happen to all, since basically the very original livings went through almost the same circumstances. Yet, and after billions of years, we still can find some creatures with a similar primitive design that had long existed since the very beginning of life.


Can't our scientists abandon their bias for once, and give a slight hint about the possibility of an intentional design for those living creatures. Of course not, as then they'd have no choice but to believe in the God.

I believe evolution really is 100% certain. Why? Because it is how it works. It also takes into account why somethings don't and why we have some terrible diseases/genetic disorders out there.

And why didn't some of these things happen to all? That's the randomness of evolution. Why are our chemoreceptors fairly weak compared to other species? A shark can sense a drop of blood from over a mile away. We require massive pollution in order to get that kind of range. There are some species that have eyes that put ours to shame. There are some species that can use echolocation that make eyes more or less unnecessary (some species don't even have eyes). Even the age argument is fairly mediocre. Until modern science, age wasn't that long. And even with modern science we're still only averaging 84 or so in the country with the highest life expectancy. There are a lot of species out there that live longer than us and don't require any interventions to do so (except maybe avoiding humans). There are sturgeon and whales that can hit 100+ years, clams and tortoises that can live over 200 years and there's even a jellyfish that, for all intents and purposes, is immortal.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
Definition: G is omnipotent if it can perform any logically consistent action.

Let S represent the set of all logically consistent actions G can perform.
Let P(S) = the act of considering performing all actions in S simultaneously.
P(S) is a logically consistent action which is not in S. Contradiction: G is not omnipotent.

Any definition of God which features omnipotence as an attribute is incoherent, because it is always possible to construct a logically consistent action which is not among the set of actions which that God can perform. Thanks, Cantor.


If being God, follows from ability to do some task, then the logic is invalid because ...
A priori knowledge is not affected by consequence or empirical knowledge.

M
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,943
542
126
No, but trying to explain relativistic quantum mechanics to you would be a lost cause, so I'll pass. :\

My argument has nothing to do with relativistic quantum mechanics, but it's amusing to watch you trying to bluff your way past it.
 
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