The Jussie Smollett Affair

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Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,188
2,243
136
*I think* the Police have a $3500 check the victim wrote to the attackers.
*I think* they have phone records of the victim calling the attackers before & after the attack.



I watched the hardware store video and noticed at one point it looked like one of the brothers was texting. I couldn't help but think about the text between the two.

"Juss, i got the stuff you wanted. Did you want a white rope or tan rope?"
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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I watched the hardware store video and noticed at one point it looked like one of the brothers was texting. I couldn't help but think about the text between the two.

"Jess, i got the stuff you wanted. Did you want a white rope or tan rope?"

There is something about tying the credit card to an Uber ride to the store or from the store too. I think the theory is Jussie gave them $100 to buy disguises and supplies.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
146
He said its a social construct, not a biological one. That statement is incorrect. Gender is influenced by social and biological factors. Further, the biological is not a small or trivial factor where it could be said that the Social is the important one and thus defines Gender.

I think you need to go back and read the rest of that conversation, bucko. That was the point of my response here: you again grabbed that one comment of mine and ignored the further discussion that started it. Again: if I misspoke in that one post, I see that it was covered later on. Not sure why you are stuck on.

Added to the nature/nurture--how do you interpret the human-controlled introduction of natural and synthetic hormones?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I think you need to go back and read the rest of that conversation, bucko. That was the point of my response here: you again grabbed that one comment of mine and ignored the further discussion that started it. Again: if I misspoke in that one post, I see that it was covered later on. Not sure why you are stuck on.

Added to the nature/nurture--how do you interpret the human-controlled introduction of natural and synthetic hormones?

Are you talking about one of the studies, or, are you talking about doing something like stopping puberty ect?
 
Reactions: JockoJohnson

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,188
2,243
136
Right, that bolder part is factually incorrect. Sex is biological, but, gender is not the socially constructed one. It may contain social influences, but, it is not that one is biological and the other is social. It would be like saying that a Prius is an electric car and not a hybrid. Gender is split by the influences. So when he says Gender is not a biological one, and biology is a major factor, that statement becomes wrong.



I believe an example of what you are saying is that when some babies are created/formed the physical sexual attributes are wired as male and the brain is wired as female which would be considered biological for both. This would explain why some trans people have felt that their brain gender differed from their physical gender at a young age. Recent studies are trying to prove that theory by doing brain scans on transgender people. In one case a scan was done on a trans female who was physically male and her brain looked more like a female brain than a male brain. I don't remember if hormones were involved.

I'm not sure how you explain people identifying as non-binary or gender neutral. Is their brain stuck in the middle of male and female?
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I believe an example of what you are saying is that when some babies are created/formed the physical sexual attributes are wired as male and the brain is wired as female which would be considered biological for both. This would explain why some trans people have felt that their brain gender differed from their physical gender at a young age. Recent studies are trying to prove that theory by doing brain scans on transgender people. In one case a scan was done on a trans female who was physically male and her brain looked more like a female brain than a male brain. I don't remember if hormones were involved.

I'm not sure how you explain people identifying as non-binary or gender neutral. Is their brain stuck in the middle of male and female?

That is all territory that I am unqualified to give an answer to. From the studies I have read, because we cant change brain structure to do testing, we focus on hormones. When you adjust hormones to that of the opposite sex, you see personality traits shift to the average of the gender that matches in terms of hormones. That would imply that biology is play a role in personalities.

But, we do know that there are physical differences beyond the endocrine system. That is as far as I can go in answering your question for the biological side.

But, I want to be absolutely clear that society plays a role in gender that is not insignificant. Anyone that would try and make a counter argument to that would have to go up against an equally massive amount of data when compared to the biological influence.

There is a lot of variation in terms of individuals. When we measure things and look at the distributions, its bimodal. There are differences between men and women, and those differences are influenced by sex and society. Given the variation, a person that may be closer to the opposite sex can have a gender expression shift with the influence of society toward or away from their sex.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,254
16,729
136
I believe an example of what you are saying is that when some babies are created/formed the physical sexual attributes are wired as male and the brain is wired as female which would be considered biological for both. This would explain why some trans people have felt that their brain gender differed from their physical gender at a young age. Recent studies are trying to prove that theory by doing brain scans on transgender people. In one case a scan was done on a trans female who was physically male and her brain looked more like a female brain than a male brain. I don't remember if hormones were involved.

I'm not sure how you explain people identifying as non-binary or gender neutral. Is their brain stuck in the middle of male and female?
That is all territory that I am unqualified to give an answer to. From the studies I have read, because we cant change brain structure to do testing, we focus on hormones. When you adjust hormones to that of the opposite sex, you see personality traits shift to the average of the gender that matches in terms of hormones. That would imply that biology is play a role in personalities.

But, we do know that there are physical differences beyond the endocrine system. That is as far as I can go in answering your question for the biological side.

But, I want to be absolutely clear that society plays a role in gender that is not insignificant. Anyone that would try and make a counter argument to that would have to go up against an equally massive amount of data when compared to the biological influence.

There is a lot of variation in terms of individuals. When we measure things and look at the distributions, its bimodal. There are differences between men and women, and those differences are influenced by sex and society. Given the variation, a person that may be closer to the opposite sex can have a gender expression shift with the influence of society toward or away from their sex.

All I can say is I know a Trans woman, she was a man. I never have thought of her as anything but a woman. The thought of her being a he at some point is what seems weird.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
All I can say is I know a Trans woman, she was a man. I never have thought of her as anything but a woman. The thought of her being a he at some point is what seems weird.

If you were her doctor, what would you think of her when doing a physical? Would it be less compassionate to engage with her personality while treating her biology which is male?

I'm not on the side of being aggressive and insulting toward trans people. If I did that, well, I would lose friends that I care about.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,254
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If you were her doctor, what would you think of her when doing a physical? Would it be less compassionate to engage with her personality while treating her biology which is male?

I'm not on the side of being aggressive and insulting toward trans people. If I did that, well, I would lose friends that I care about.

Don’t know & don’t care that’s between her and her doctor.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Im sorry how did we end up on the tranny doctor debate?

this thread is about a minority who faked a hate crime for money.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
If you imagine your smug condescension exists on some imperceptible level, then I gotta repeat myself, you're a dipshit.

There's a way to explain things to people when you want to educate, and you'd don't use it. You're here to be a haughty dick.

I'm put off by your certitude. You're not talking about mathematics, so it has no place.
So, you’re basically admitting that you can’t tolerate or accept hard truth if it isn’t presented how you want to hear it. Facts are facts, buttercup. The kid gloves came off when you proved you’d rather double-down on the lie than admit that you fell for it.

This is for you:
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe
Clearly, you made Zimmerman’s guilt a core belief and your pinky toe is screaming “DON’T DISRESPECT MY BELIEFS.”

I gave you everything you asked for. Instead of acknowledging truth and getting upset with the people who manipulated you into believing this lie for several years, you took the lazy way out and rejected reality. You distrusted my explanation when I elaborated and demanded more only to throw all of my good-faith effort back in my face and go on deluding yourself. I was prepared to respect you for changing your mind and learning from this, but then you squandered that. Now you expect me to have been more civil after you baselessly reject all of the work I did at your request. That’s rich!

No matter. If you can’t accept my example then I will make an example of you for everyone else. You are only making my case regarding the public’s tendency for willful self-delusion to accept race-baiting lies.

If it’s just a name in a list insinuating that people got it wrong, you demand elaboration. If it’s elaborated on with just the facts, you demand sources and explanations. If it’s sourced with explanations when presented again, you insult me and hand-wave it and dismiss the personal effort as being the work of some blog with an agenda (lie), then double down on the most laughable and easily disproven point of all. We’re onto your game.

Instead of being angry at the race-bating liars, you weren’t even ashamed to go on claiming that Zimmerman continued to pursue. If you are going to be their tool and keep perpetuating their lies just to avoid admitting you were wrong, you’d better believe I’m going to press you on that. You had an out and you didn’t take it. Ya blew it. The chance for civility has passed and you’re still entrenched with your core belief so I feel you deserve any ridicule you get for it at this point. I see it as a deterrent for anyone who might stubbornly follow in your footsteps.

Not only is it incorrect that they ordered him not to follow (“don’t need” is not the same as “don’t”), it’s 100% indisputable that he immediately said “OK” and stopped following. Yes, I said 100%. Stop lecturing me on how disgusted you are with my certitude and tell me how you sleep at night with your shameful certainty that Zimmerman isn’t innocent. Your core belief was wrong and everything else you thought you understood with that context needs to be re-evaluated. Good luck.

He lost Trayvon and said “OK” when they “asked” him to stop. He gave directions to meet at his vehicle by the mailboxes and stopped giving them his address when he realized that Trayvon could be listening nearby. He openly expressed this concern to the operator, saying he didn’t want to give all of his address out since he didn’t know where Trayvon was. The concern was obviously that he could get ambushed/intercepted at home. Listen to it again or read the transcript and tell me where I’m wrong.

Zimmerman lost Trayvon and agreed to give up pursuit the moment they said they didn’t need him to do that. Obviously, his concerns about being ambushed were justified too. There is absolutely no excuse for continuing to dig your heels in on this. You lost.

Gullible people who reject reality to support the narrative are the reason people like Smollett think they can manipulate us all and get away with it. They are the root of the problem. You can choose to stop this or you can go on being an enabler.

Smollett didn’t get away with it but the lying outrage-peddlers demonizing Zimmerman and others on that list sure did. For some inexplicable reason you chose to continue enabling it right here in front of everyone. It’s not too late: Accept reality. Admit you were wrong. Correct those who continue perpetuating lies like this and call out the ones who stubbornly refuse. Be more aware of this when you see it in the future. Don’t shoot the messenger just because your pride was hurt. Stop being their tool. You will have earned our respect.

Before you ask, here’s the relevant part of the recorded transcript that shows Zimmerman agreed to stop following, stopped following, lost Trayvon, arranged to meet the police at his truck, didn’t know where Trayvon was, expressed concern with Trayvon sneaking back and overhearing his address, and then made alternate meeting arrangements:
...
Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah.

Dispatcher: OK. We don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: OK.


Dispatcher: Alright, sir, what is your name?

Zimmerman: George. ... He ran.

Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?

Zimmerman: Zimmerman.

Dispatcher: ...and George what's the phone number you're calling from?

Zimmerman: 407-435-2400.

Dispatcher: Alright George we do have ‘em on the way. Do you want to meet with the
officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman: Yeah.


Dispatcher: Alright where’re you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: If they come in through the, uh, gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes. You’ll see my truck.

Dispatcher: OK. Wha- what address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.

Dispatcher: OK. Do you live in the area?

Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah, I-

Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?

Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950-oh crap I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is.

Dispatcher: OK do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you-with y’out there OK?

Zimmerman: Actually could you have them- could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

Dispatcher: OK, yeah that's no problem.
 
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