The Kaveri Pre-Launch Thread (A10-7800 and A10-6800k @3,5 Ghz)

[Abwx]

Better than 4670k. You're a funny dude.

The funny dud is the one that quote half a sentence
and then comment on it....

Quite the contrary , i dont see i3/i5 as valuable for desktops
unless they have a dGpu so Kaveri fits perfectly the bill for
mainstream offerings since it seems to perform better than
a GT630 + i5 4670K, think about it....

 

[9enesis]

The problem is that people out there will buy a Core i5 with GTX620/630 OEM system.

i have yet to find and see one OEM sys like that.... i had never studied what OEMs build though

 

[rainy]

I'm guessing that pricing is due to limited initial supply. It is a compelling choice versus Intel i3 and lower but not very attractive against i5 and higher except when dealing with Small Form Factor constraints.

Richland's pricing was much more realistic, imo.

Kaveri bringing some new features into APU, however I agree that AMD should keep MSRP of A10-7850K at the level of most expensive i3 - to be exact 157 dollars (i3-4340).

 

[frozentundra123456]

Quite the contrary , i dont see i3/i5 as valuable for desktops
unless they have a dGpu so Kaveri fits perfectly the bill for
mainstream offerings since it seems to perform better than
a GT630 + i5 4670K, think about it....

OK, I thought about it. If I want great cpu performance and a good enough igp for normal use, I would get the 4670k. If I wanted to game I would get the 4670k and a decent video card.

Sorry, but I just dont see a sort of, but not quite, good enough igp as a compelling selling point on the desktop, except in niche cases such as SFF PCs, as Blackened (and others) have already said.

If they could get Kaveri close to HD7750 levels in a laptop chip at 500 to 600 dollars, that would be a great buy. But they havent overcome the bandwidth limitations enough to even get that in a 95w desktop chip, much less a TDP limited mobile one.

 

[el etro]

imho...tegra is no competition to amd. it's just another arm soc. amd is about x86 , nvidia can not touch that.

You didn't understood my post.

AMD is about to enter to ranges of the market that Nvidia aims their Tegra. Intel have currently the best GPU(in performance/mm² terms) in the desktop market. AMD is getting behind in their own race(they have started the GPU race back in 2006).

 

[Sweepr]

Better than 4670k. You're a funny dude.

For an extra $9 (A10 7850K costs $173) you can get a Core i5 4430 (quad-core Haswell running 3.1-3.3GHz) that should be a way better option for any system with a discrete GPU. A bandwidth limited APU (or any other IGP right now for that matter) is just not going to cut it as soon as the first PS4/XB1 ports (not cross generation X360/PS3) come out. Even 6-8 core Vishera would be a better option for the same $ or less, except they are based on an old dying platform (AM3+) so I wouldnt recommend any new system based on them.

 

[AtenRa]

i have yet to find and see one OEM sys like that.... i had never studied what OEMs build though

Core i5 with GTX620

Core i5 with GTX635

Core i5 with HD7730

Core i7 with GTX620

Core i7 with GTX630



http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url...0014733%20600440347&IsNodeId=1&user=u00000687

 

[Abwx]

OK, I thought about it. If I want great cpu performance and a good enough igp for normal use, I would get the 4670k. If I wanted to game I would get the 4670k and a decent video card.

Sorry, but I just dont see a sort of, but not quite, good enough igp as a compelling selling point on the desktop, except in niche cases such as SFF PCs, as Blackened (and others) have already said.

If they could get Kaveri close to HD7750 levels in a laptop chip at 500 to 600 dollars, that would be a great buy. But they havent overcome the bandwidth limitations enough to even get that in a 95w desktop chip, much less a TDP limited mobile one.

We are talking of systems that rely on integrated GFX and wich are currently 90% of the sold X86 consumers systems and in this respect , that is for 90% of the market, Kaveri is globaly the best offering and please dont come again with the dGPU argument iknowing that mainstream
system have not and will never have such a card , such options are
devoted to enthusiasts or knowledgable enough people but this is
another debate or rather another market.

 

[ShintaiDK]

We are talking of systems that rely on integrated GFX and wich are currently 90% of the sold X86 consumers systems and in this respect , that is for 90% of the market, Kaveri is globaly the best offering and please dont come again with the dGPU argument iknowing that mainstream
system have not and will never have such a card , such options are
devoted to enthusiasts or knowledgable enough people but this is
another debate or rather another market.

Not really, since those 90% do not game. And they seem to prefer power efficiency and CPU performance.

Its the same rerun ever since Llano isnt it? Next one will really sell! But it never does because its not what the consumers want.

 

[9enesis]

Core i5 with GTX620

Core i5 with GTX635

Core i5 with HD7730

Core i7 with GTX620

Core i7 with GTX630

:biggrin:crazy ....i suspect this is how OEMs get rid of junk:biggrin:

 

[9enesis]

that is for 90% of the market.

Don't you think that 90% of those 90% will be just fine with intel's HD4400 - 4600....?

 

[sniffin]

I really wish they'd talk about mobile Kaveri. Mobile is where it's going to matter most and where the biggest perf gains are going to be. Instead they waste everybodys time with desktop skus. Outside of HTPC and extreme budget builds who in the desktop segment is going to give a crap about this

 

[Abwx]

Not really, since those 90% do not game. And they seem to prefer power efficiency and CPU performance.

Its the same rerun ever since Llano isnt it? Next one will really sell! But it never does because its not what the consumers want.

Actualy thoses who game are the only ones pushing
their PCs , the rest do tasks that barely move the curves
on the task manager , comsumed power being at iddling levels.

As for Llano be sure that the laptops will last much
longer than SBs with HD2000/3000, i m talking
of years of experience with non upgradable systems...

 

[9enesis]

You didn't understood my post.

AMD is about to enter to ranges of the market that Nvidia aims their Tegra. .

do you mean arm soc by amd?

 

[Abwx]

Don't you think that 90% of those 90% will be just fine with intel's HD4400 - 4600....?

Of course , everybody is fine with everything when we
dont know how good or bad the stuff really is , moreover
if you re upgrading from a previous such device...

 

[Sweepr]

I really wish they'd talk about mobile Kaveri. Mobile is where it's going to matter most and where the biggest perf gains are going to be. Instead they waste everybodys time with desktop skus. Outside of HTPC and extreme budget builds who in the desktop segment is going to give a crap about this

The absense of any reference to mobile, especially lower TDP 15W models left me a bit surprised. Theres an impressive amount of 15W Haswell-U based notebooks right now (not just Ultrabooks) and there will be Broadwell-Y models with TDP as low as 4.5W later this year. 35-45W is so yesterday, I hope its not their main focus anymore.

 

[Abwx]

The absense of any reference to lower TDP 15W models left me a bit surprised. Theres an impressive amount of 15W Haswell-U based notebooks right now (not just Ultrabooks) and there will be Broadwell-Y models with TDP as low as 4.5W later this year. 35-45W is so yesterday.

.

 

[Enigmoid]

For an extra $9 (A10 7850K costs $173) you can get a Core i5 4430 (quad-core Haswell running 3.1-3.3GHz) that should be a way better option for any system with a discrete GPU. A bandwidth limited APU (or any other IGP right now for that matter) is just not going to cut it as soon as the first PS4/XB1 ports (not cross generation X360/PS3) come out. Even 6-8 core Vishera would be a better option for the same $ or less, except they are based on an old dying platform (AM3+) so I wouldnt recommend any new system based on them.

You mean $0 because you can buy cheaper RAM with Haswell.

 

[l2ez4m]

I think Kaveri platform with it's slew of hsa optimization is quite healthy budget or even midrange gaming config option. Knowning the fact that majority of gamers reside not in unreachable high end empyreals, but on the lowly slice of the cheese cake.

And as shown in this review of finding optimal cpu for R7 260X and alike midrange rabble (across 12 modern games) there is no significant performance delta (if any with upcoming Kaveri opt).

PS 260X was OC to 1200/1800.

 

[Fjodor2001]

The design decisions made by AMD led to them having a denser chip.

Could you please clarify what design decisions you mean? Are you suggesting AMD CPU and GPU cores are more dense by design compared to Intel's equivalent?

 

[AtenRa]

Could you please clarify what design decisions you mean? Are you suggesting AMD CPU and GPU cores are more dense by design compared to Intel's equivalent?

GPUs are denser than CPU cores. By having a larger portion of the die as a iGPU you have higher density than having more die dedicated to CPU cores.

Since Kaveri has 47% of its die as a GPU then it has higher density than Haswell with a iGPU of 31% of its die.

But actually if you use both iGPU and L2/3 caches the situation is changing again. And since both Kaveri and Haswell use large amounts of L2 and L3 caches you could measure the CPU cores alone to find out which has the higher density. Anyway, talking about Transistor density in two different designs using different Litho processes is pointless.

edit: Just to point out, if we knew the transistor count of each of the iGPU and the actual size, you could measure the density and make better conclusions/estimations about various topics such as performance per density or iGPU transistor density etc.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Actualy thoses who game are the only ones pushing
their PCs , the rest do tasks that barely move the curves
on the task manager , comsumed power being at iddling levels.

As for Llano be sure that the laptops will last much
longer than SBs with HD2000/3000, i m talking
of years of experience with non upgradable systems...

Regarding you first paragraph, that is exactly my point, the vast majority dont need that gpu power, and those who game need more gpu performance than an apu can give.

As for your last paragraph, it is totally ludicrous. I have a SB work laptop with optimus and a discrete gpu. I dont game on it of course, and I cant think of one time the dgpu has ever shown any activity in any kind of use I have for it. I would bet the lousy cpu performance, especially of Llano, will render a laptop obsolete far quicker than the igp of SB/Ivy.

 

[Abwx]

Regarding you first paragraph, that is exactly my point, the vast majority dont need that gpu power, and those who game need more gpu performance than an apu can give.

They need what they got , whatever the CPU/GPU combination,
good or bad , they ll play with what they have , heck they dont
even know what is a GPU but for sure they heard about CPUs,
overhelming majority has IGPs so Kaveri will be a nice product
for the masses..

As for your last paragraph, it is totally ludicrous. I have a SB work laptop with optimus and a discrete gpu. I dont game on it of course, and I cant think of one time the dgpu has ever shown any activity in any kind of use I have for it. I would bet the lousy cpu performance, especially of Llano, will render a laptop obsolete far quicker than the igp of SB/Ivy.

All the laptops i got did run out of GPU capability long
before the CPU started lacking and SBs with IGPs
only will suffer the same fate.

 

[mikk]

x264 HD Benchmark 5.0.1 runs 20% faster than Richland with a fixed 3,7 Ghz frequency. It is incorrect that they say 20% better IPC since Steamroller has a better core scaling. A10-6800k scores 8.2 fps in default state, means A10-7850k @3,7 Ghz is 4% faster here.

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/446...d-benchmarks-igpu-tech-arp-x264-hd-501-pass-2

 

[Lepton87]

x264 HD Benchmark 5.0.1 runs 20% faster than Richland with a fixed 3,7 Ghz frequency. It is incorrect that they say 20% better IPC since Steamroller has a better core scaling. A10-6800k scores 8.2 fps in default state, means A10-7850k @3,7 Ghz is 4% faster here.

No, it's not incorrect unless they specify that they mean single threaded IPC.