The lunacy of organized religion

[OneOfTheseDays]

Maybe it has been a gradual awakening or revelation that has occured throughout the years, but lately I just can't help but notice how incredibly stupid people get about religion. I'm also realizing how modern religion simply does not hold up to my own standards anymore, and my view of most mainstream religions is that they are nothing more than mythology. I feel incredibly sorry for the tens of millions of people who are hoodwinked and indoctrinated into these religions which are based upon thousand year old texts who accuracy can never be determined.

I wonder how and why religion has been left largely unevolved. It seems to me that religion would have to adapt to the culture and times in order to stay relevant in people's lives. However, it seems like it is doing precisely the opposite. People cling to these mythological beliefs, while thumbing their noses at proven scientific data that has been the fruitless efforts of thousands of scientists.

What the hell is the point of even having an organized religion anymore? If your faith is your personal relationship between yourself and whatever you believe to be God(s), then why do you need other people telling you what to believe?

I'm just at odds here trying to figure out why so many people put so much importance in these thousand year old myths, over things like proven scientific data. I'm not trying to flame or attack any religion, I'm just trying to understand. The more I hear these arguments about things like the attack on Christmas, the more I feel like our country is headed in the completely wrong direction.

 

[compuwiz1]

I agree, especially about the cult type chuches. I personally believe, but find the ways of organized religion depicable. Oh, and don't worry, the zealots will arrive shortly, so have your protective gear on.

 

[EatSpam]

:thumbsup:

Could have used you in the Boobs for Bibles thread!

 

[Captante]

The vast majority of people are told what to believe by their parents, who aquired the beliefs the same way & by the time they get older & are capable of any type of independant reasoning, they are so set in their ways that change is literally impossible.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I really don't want this to turn into a flamewar, but at the same time I'm going to be completely honest about how I feel about modern religion. I'm simply baffled why so many people cling to these mythical 3000 year old stories as if they were factual. Clearly they were written by man, and not by God.

Modern religion seems to be focused more on these mythological texts than on preaching spirituality and morals. After all isn't the whole point of a religion is to guide you along your spiritual path towards God? Instead, religions are whored out and used for political means, pitting people against each other for such stupid and insignificant things. I'm just disallusioned at this point and can't see any reason for having organized religion.

If you want to believe in whatever it is you do believe in, that's your business. But why is it so hard for people to keep their religion private? One of the many things I've learned with a decent education is to think for myself, and to see things for what they truly are. I just don't think most people have thought enough about religion to see it's obvious failings and shortcomings.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Religion does and can serve a constructive and productive role in society...more often then not, when religion transcends the spiritual realm to influence politics, that is where the conflict resides.

There is a place for spirituality, even in an enlightened, modernized and educated society...the very nature of a free society should enable citizens to worship how they choose, even if their choice is to not believe in the spiritual at all...the problem exists when those of one faith attempt to impose their flavor of God on everyone else...America is not the only country where this dynamic exists, and wars have been fought the world over because of it.

Organized religion is a human construct, and is therefore vulnerable to the inherent flaws of being human.

You say that many of these antiquated stories do not stand the test of reason...but if you look past these stories, fables and myths and look at the underlying message, some of them are suitable guides for living a good life...those who take these stories literally instead of figuratively have lost the meaning of spirituality.

 

[LeadMagnet]

doesn't matter - soon the spaceships will be here to pick us up.

 

[Isla]

I agree, Sudheer Anne. And yet I have a strong faith in a higher power... "The Force" if you will, and it never fails me.

What passes for religion and 'faith' in society is really more of a mob mentality and a way to distinguish "us" from "them".

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Religion does and can serve a constructive and productive role in society...more often then not, when religion transcends the spiritual realm to influence politics, that is where the conflict resides.

There is a place for spirituality, even in an enlightened, modernized and educated society...the very nature of a free society should enable citizens to worship how they choose, even if their choice is to not believe in the spiritual at all...the problem exists when those of one faith attempt to impose their flavor of God on everyone else...America is not the only country where this dynamic exists, and wars have been fought the world over because of it.

Organized religion is a human construct, and is therefore vulnerable to the inherent flaws of being human.

You say that many of these antiquated stories do not stand the test of reason...but if you look past these stories, fables and myths and look at the underlying message, some of them are suitable guides for living a good life...those who take these stories literally instead of figuratively have lost the meaning of spirituality.

Agreed. Fortunetly some Religious people understand that and live by it. Unfortunetly the most vocal Religious people are usually the types that don't understand that and don't live by it.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I'd like to promote a civilized and intellectual debate about religion here, that hopefully won't turn into the typical P&N flamewar. I'm really interested to know what drives people to believe whatever is they do believe.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Christianity is based on Faith, given by the Holy Spirit. In a way, it is not a person who believes, but the Holy Spirit who believes through a person. It's all very complicated, but the point is that people don't need facts to back up their religious beliefs.

If you don't understand why people accept this, I think it's because you're looking for something more elaborate than is really there. In most cases, religion is passed down through the generations as a result of indoctrination and other social pressures. I'm sure fear plays a role, too: Would you rather believe you're going to die and live no more, or that you can go to heaven and live forever? It's simply more pleasant to believe in a religion.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Isla
I agree, Sudheer Anne. And yet I have a strong faith in a higher power... "The Force" if you will, and it never fails me.

What passes for religion and 'faith' in society is really more of a mob mentality and a way to distinguish "us" from "them".

Agreed. I think that there is nothing wrong with the idea of faith and religion, and for many people it is an excellent source of inspiration and support. But what should really be a very deep, personal thing has instead been subverted into a stick to beat your enemies with. And I'm not just talking about the obvious examples like Osama bin Laden and his ilk, it's very present in most of the rest of the world.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
I'd like to promote a civilized and intellectual debate about religion here, that hopefully won't turn into the typical P&N flamewar. I'm really interested to know what drives people to believe whatever is they do believe.

It's called faith some people have it some don't. Those that do not will never understand the ones that do.

I am a non-praticing Catholic, it was a big part of my life for about 14 years while I was enrolled in a Catholic school. I have my own personel beliefs in a higher power, I only bring it up because I have seen both sides for many years.

I agree with what you say about organized religion, but the problem is not the religion, it is those that practice it. Religion is like a gun...if it is used for good or bad is up to the person wielding it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Christianity is based on Faith, given by the Holy Spirit. In a way, it is not a person who believes, but the Holy Spirit who believes through a person. It's all very complicated, but the point is that people don't need facts to back up their religious beliefs.

If you don't understand why people accept this, I think it's because you're looking for something more elaborate than is really there. In most cases, religion is passed down through the generations as a result of indoctrination and other social pressures. I'm sure fear plays a role, too: Would you rather believe you're going to die and live no more, or that you can go to heaven and live forever? It's simply more pleasant to believe in a religion.

You might have a point there...how many parents really raise their kids to believe however they want? I'm extremely glad mine did, but I don't think most people are so lucky.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I think the problem many people of faith have is trying to envision their world and their lives outside of the scope of their own religion. Non-believers are referred to as heathens and pagans in these mythical texts, as if they are unworthy in some way. Simply because I do not subscribe to any religion does not make me any less spiritual or lacking in faith than the next man.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
I really don't want this to turn into a flamewar, but at the same time I'm going to be completely honest about how I feel about modern religion. I'm simply baffled why so many people cling to these mythical 3000 year old stories as if they were factual. Clearly they were written by man, and not by God.

Modern religion seems to be focused more on these mythological texts than on preaching spirituality and morals. After all isn't the whole point of a religion is to guide you along your spiritual path towards God? Instead, religions are whored out and used for political means, pitting people against each other for such stupid and insignificant things. I'm just disallusioned at this point and can't see any reason for having organized religion.

If you want to believe in whatever it is you do believe in, that's your business. But why is it so hard for people to keep their religion private? One of the many things I've learned with a decent education is to think for myself, and to see things for what they truly are. I just don't think most people have thought enough about religion to see it's obvious failings and shortcomings.

ok, so what you're really arguing for are pluralism & tolerance, which
certain influential religious groups and individuals won't or can't
accept.

myths aren't necessarily false even if they aren't literally factual; they frequently
convey profound truths.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
I really don't want this to turn into a flamewar, but at the same time I'm going to be completely honest about how I feel about modern religion. I'm simply baffled why so many people cling to these mythical 3000 year old stories as if they were factual. Clearly they were written by man, and not by God.

Modern religion seems to be focused more on these mythological texts than on preaching spirituality and morals. After all isn't the whole point of a religion is to guide you along your spiritual path towards God? Instead, religions are whored out and used for political means, pitting people against each other for such stupid and insignificant things. I'm just disallusioned at this point and can't see any reason for having organized religion.

If you want to believe in whatever it is you do believe in, that's your business. But why is it so hard for people to keep their religion private? One of the many things I've learned with a decent education is to think for myself, and to see things for what they truly are. I just don't think most people have thought enough about religion to see it's obvious failings and shortcomings.

ok, so what you're really arguing for are pluralism & tolerance, which
certain influential religious groups and individuals won't or can't
accept.

myths aren't necessarily false even if they aren't literally factual; they frequently
convey profound truths.

religions are by nature inflexible. their claimed infallibility makes it so. that is the problem concerning most religions, and why there is such intolerance today.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
I really don't want this to turn into a flamewar, but at the same time I'm going to be completely honest about how I feel about modern religion. I'm simply baffled why so many people cling to these mythical 3000 year old stories as if they were factual. Clearly they were written by man, and not by God.

Modern religion seems to be focused more on these mythological texts than on preaching spirituality and morals. After all isn't the whole point of a religion is to guide you along your spiritual path towards God? Instead, religions are whored out and used for political means, pitting people against each other for such stupid and insignificant things. I'm just disallusioned at this point and can't see any reason for having organized religion.

If you want to believe in whatever it is you do believe in, that's your business. But why is it so hard for people to keep their religion private? One of the many things I've learned with a decent education is to think for myself, and to see things for what they truly are. I just don't think most people have thought enough about religion to see it's obvious failings and shortcomings.

ok, so what you're really arguing for are pluralism & tolerance, which
certain influential religious groups and individuals won't or can't
accept.

myths aren't necessarily false even if they aren't literally factual; they frequently
convey profound truths.

religions are by nature inflexible. their claimed infallibility makes it so. that is the problem concerning most religions, and why there is such intolerance today.

i think we're talking about 2 different dimensions here.
a group can believe it possesses "truth," but attempt to
spread it through persuasion & example (non-Evangelical Christians),
or not attempt to spread it at all (Judaism).

whether it's a problem depends on whether you're stuck
in a location where an intolerant group with views that conflict with yours
has enough political power to cause problems for you.

I'm really interested to know what drives people to believe whatever is they do believe.

i personally feel that arguments for the truth of the basic Christian narrative are
compelling, but there's no mathematical proof.
neither my parents, nor social pressure, nor fear
(of death or going to hell) played any role in it.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

it's very hard for me at times to sit and take certain religious people seriously, but I do at least try and understand their POV.

my belief is that ALL religions are false. religions are all manmade, and thus by nature are all false. now, what do I mean by false? i'm strictly speaking about any religion claiming to hold any historical truths (like Jesus being the son of God, etc.), and not about morals and values that the religions preach. if modern religions focused strictly on the spiritual, and less on the other ritualistic aspects I'd have a far more favorable view towards them.

it is my belief that pure spirituality and enlightenment has been tainted by religion.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Maybe it has been a gradual awakening or revelation that has occured throughout the years, but lately I just can't help but notice how incredibly stupid people get about religion. I'm also realizing how modern religion simply does not hold up to my own standards anymore, and my view of most mainstream religions is that they are nothing more than mythology. I feel incredibly sorry for the tens of millions of people who are hoodwinked and indoctrinated into these religions which are based upon thousand year old texts who accuracy can never be determined.

I wonder how and why religion has been left largely unevolved. It seems to me that religion would have to adapt to the culture and times in order to stay relevant in people's lives. However, it seems like it is doing precisely the opposite. People cling to these mythological beliefs, while thumbing their noses at proven scientific data that has been the fruitless efforts of thousands of scientists.

What the hell is the point of even having an organized religion anymore? If your faith is your personal relationship between yourself and whatever you believe to be God(s), then why do you need other people telling you what to believe?

I'm just at odds here trying to figure out why so many people put so much importance in these thousand year old myths, over things like proven scientific data. I'm not trying to flame or attack any religion, I'm just trying to understand. The more I hear these arguments about things like the attack on Christmas, the more I feel like our country is headed in the completely wrong direction.

If any one tries to prove God to you they are wasting their time, your time, and God's time.

If any one tries to convert you or have you join their brand of religion stay away from them, they have a personal agenda or are following their leaders agenda which they value more than you.

People in important organized religious positions value their position more than anything else and will do anything to keep it including lie, cheat, steal, and kill.

I have seen more wickedness and evil in those claiming to be holy and representatives of God than in all the atheists, agnostics, pagans, etc. combined.

They tend not follow what they preach and usually have one set of rules for the low ranking members and another set of rules including special privileges for themselves.

And that is what causes many on the outside of their religion to see them for what they are , and in todays age with the free flow of information their unjust deeds are coming to light and that scares them more than anything else.

 

[DrPizza]

Quote from Southpark which kinda sums of the purpose of religion:

Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in
crazy stories that make absolutely no
sense, and maybe Joseph Smith did make
it all up, but I have a great life.
and a great family, and I have the Book
of Mormon to thank for that. The truth
is, I don't care if Joseph Smith made
it all up, because what the church teaches
now is loving your family, being nice
and helping people. And even though
people in this town might think that's
stupid, I still choose to believe in
it. All I ever did was try to be your
friend, Stan, but you're so high and
mighty you couldn't look past my religion
and just be my friend back. You've got
a lot of growing up to do, buddy. Suck
my balls.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

if only life were that simple pizza.

 

[Lanyap]

Religion evolved from human nature thousands of years ago. Humans had/have no control over many things so they pray that something in their life or someones elses life will happen or not. Religion was born out of this activity.

 

[mOeeOm]

''I'm really interested to know what drives people to believe whatever is they do believe.''

1) I'm in Engineering now, so I take a lot of science and math courses, yet I am a believer, simply because I refuse to believe the world created itself out of nothing. I'm a Muslim by the way, the Quran teaches the big bang happend, but God created the small volume that exploded, while scientists just say the big bang happend...ok where did it come from? :S The scientific explanation sounds like to me: The world created itself.

I can't believe that.....there has to have been a higher power, as to what created God, well...I guess we find out when we go to heaven?

2) The concepts in the Quran help me live a better life, like every single thing it condemns, it does so for good reason, because its simply bad for you.

3) No I will not go into it: The Quran has a lot of correlation with science, it says things that are just being discovered now, some people brush them off as coicidences, some believe, I believe in it because there are just too many of them in the Quran and too accurate to be just mere coicidences.

Once again: I won't get into it, if you want to research it, feel free, but I won't discuss it.

4) So, science + quran mix perfectly for me.

5) Believing in something beyond death gives you hope, it gives you direction, it gives you all the answers you need. Instead of going through life asking: What happens when we die? etc etc etc....we have all the answers, whether you agree with it or not is up to you.

6) Living among real Muslims, ones that actually follow the Quran, they are very good people and I put a lot of trust in them, so I know it works when its followed.

Finally...it makes life worth living, I know where we came from, I know why we are here, I know where we are going.

I hope that cleared up some things.....I can't speak for Christians/Jews...but I would imagine they feel the same.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Quote from Southpark which kinda sums of the purpose of religion:

Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in
crazy stories that make absolutely no
sense, and maybe Joseph Smith did make
it all up, but I have a great life.
and a great family, and I have the Book
of Mormon to thank for that. The truth
is, I don't care if Joseph Smith made
it all up, because what the church teaches
now is loving your family, being nice
and helping people. And even though
people in this town might think that's
stupid, I still choose to believe in
it. All I ever did was try to be your
friend, Stan, but you're so high and
mighty you couldn't look past my religion
and just be my friend back. You've got
a lot of growing up to do, buddy. Suck
my balls.

I agree that would be nice, but that's not really how religion works.