The Microsoft Surface Tablet thread.

[Tom]

I would think Windows 8 is going to sell a lot of laptops with touchscreens..

tablets, not so much.

I don't see Office being all that great on a tablet, even with a tiny add-0n keyboard.

But some touch features in Office, on a decent sized laptop or even a desktop, could be very cool.

 

[ultimatebob]

$499 for a tablet without keyboard cover? Too rich for me. I'd rather take Asus' Transformer instead, at least Asus's keyboard cover extends run time.

P.S. It reminds me Microsoft's Zune, now doomed.

Yeah... it took the 30 GB Zune about 18 months from being a $249 retail device to being liquidated on Woot.com for $79 each. Anyone want to take bets on when the first Surface RT tablets show up on Woot for under $200?

 

[gorcorps]

I would think Windows 8 is going to sell a lot of laptops with touchscreens..

tablets, not so much.

I don't see Office being all that great on a tablet, even with a tiny add-0n keyboard.

But some touch features in Office, on a decent sized laptop or even a desktop, could be very cool.

Depends what you use it for. I use OneNote all the time with my work tablet, which was designed for such things. It's also useful for showing powerpoint presentations. I wouldn't want to make huge excel stuff with a tablet, but even through windows 7 and Office 10 it's nice to have in some cases.

 

[Traveler]

Yeah... it took the 30 GB Zune about 18 months from being a $249 retail device to being liquidated on Woot.com for $79 each. Anyone want to take bets on when the first Surface RT tablets show up on Woot for under $200?

Just realize... Surface tablet doesn't have GPS.
Let's see... Ipad with GPS, Asus tablet with GPS, Acer tablet with GPS, Samsung tablet with GPS, Toshiba tablet with GPS, even Google Nexus with GPS...

It's not a big issue. But for Surface's price level, it'll be a hard match.

P.S. Other tablets with Windows 8 are coming out soon... yep, a hard match.

 

[Dominato3r]

So the Surface is out, according to you guys. How would Windows 8 look like something on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVRt5KhRh_M

That might just be my next laptop.

 

[darkewaffle]

Dude on the right looks like Jason Bateman.

And personally I have no interest in a 'tablet' of any sort when I could just get an ultrabook type machine. I think the Surface is definitely one of the best looking however; if someone would get me a tablet as a gift I'd ask for a Surface first I think.

 

[JKing106]

That Vista "failure" sold 300 million licenses...

How many of those were to OEM's, and how many to enterprise/consumers?

 

[gus6464]

Base model is now on 3 week backorder from MS. They must be doing something right.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/trending...ablet_on_backorder_before_oct_26_release.html

 

[gorcorps]

How many of those were to OEM's, and how many to enterprise/consumers?

What does that matter? When you're comparing OS releases those sales will be there regardless, so it's still a valid comparison. It's not like Vista was the first OS to sell to OEMs so it's not "skewed" by any means.

 

[Red Storm]

What does that matter? When you're comparing OS releases those sales will be there regardless, so it's still a valid comparison. It's not like Vista was the first OS to sell to OEMs so it's not "skewed" by any means.

When Dell/HP and others switch to Win 8 on their new corporate workstations, we will buy them and replace Win 8 with 7. So even though we add to Windows 8 sales figures, we don't actually use it. That's his point.

 

[tornadog]

I am happy people are preordering the Surface. Dont want to see this device end up in a firesale. It has lots of potential and once people look at it and see what it has to offer, I am sure it will be a legit contender in the tablet scene.

 

[dagamer34]

When Dell/HP and others switch to Win 8 on their new corporate workstations, we will buy them and replace Win 8 with 7. So even though we add to Windows 8 sales figures, we don't actually use it. That's his point.

At it's peak, Windows Vista commanded about 25% of the overall market, so out of 1 billion computers, that's around 250 million. I don't know how you ignore a market that large. Heck, it could be 150 million or 100 million. That's still more than the total number of iPads sold so far since 2010. Would you ignore such a market?

 

[dagamer34]

I am happy people are preordering the Surface. Dont want to see this device end up in a firesale. It has lots of potential and once people look at it and see what it has to offer, I am sure it will be a legit contender in the tablet scene.

I think it's extremely rare that a piece of hardware has failed solely on the basis of price and price alone. Usually there's a huge gaping hole in software related to the performance of the device that makes it just plain unusable. Or the design of the device itself is pure crap. But rarely just price.

 

[Red Storm]

At it's peak, Windows Vista commanded about 25% of the overall market, so out of 1 billion computers, that's around 250 million. I don't know how you ignore a market that large. Heck, it could be 150 million or 100 million. That's still more than the total number of iPads sold so far since 2010. Would you ignore such a market?

And yet you hear stories about iOS devs getting rich off of just their iPad apps, but I don't remember hearing any similar stories about a Windows application developer.

Microsoft is trying to fill all niches with one OS. That's just not going to work very well. It is virtually guaranteed to succeed in the desktop market because of so many corporations being tied into Exchange/Office for a long time now. I have my doubts that they will become a serious competitor to Apple and Google. It will do better than WP7 that's for sure (which couldn't even beat the old Windows Mobile), but I don't see it working out.

 

[Skel]

Base model is now on 3 week backorder from MS. They must be doing something right.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/trending...ablet_on_backorder_before_oct_26_release.html

Which I would think is amazing if it wasn't for the fact it's the same unit as the $599 one. Seems they're pushing the slightly higher price point with a touch cover. I'm pretty sure the Surface tablet is the exact same one.

And yet you hear stories about iOS devs getting rich off of just their iPad apps, but I don't remember hearing any similar stories about a Windows application developer.

Microsoft is trying to fill all niches with one OS. That's just not going to work very well. It is virtually guaranteed to succeed in the desktop market because of so many corporations being tied into Exchange/Office for a long time now. I have my doubts that they will become a serious competitor to Apple and Google. It will do better than WP7 that's for sure (which couldn't even beat the old Windows Mobile), but I don't see it working out.

There are tons of companies that have made millions being "Windows application developers". I think you mean to say "windows phone devs".

 

[cmdrdredd]

While I don't think this is the right pricing point that Microsoft should've hit, I don't understand why everyone talks about how $500 is poor for what you get yet say nothing of the iPad. The iPad will sport the better screen (most likely) and the better app store, but the Surface appeals more to me in looks and the app store is almost certain to come along. Sell enough Win8 tablets/laptops/computers and you'll see apps launching day and date on Apple and Microsoft's stores simultaneously.

Not when Windows 8 RT does not support the same Windows 8 Pro apps.

MS removed the ability to disable it. As of now you use a third party hack to get around it, but it sounds like MS will try and stop that with patches.

No, MS has no plans to actively block 3rd party toold that you selectively run to jump to the desktop with a start menu. If you can provide a link that's different. Last I read they gave the OK because it's still your PC.

 

[cmdrdredd]

double

 

[gus6464]

Does the W8 SDK allow for an easy port between x86 and ARM?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Does the W8 SDK allow for an easy port between x86 and ARM?

Supposed to not be hard but I'm betting most devs will make x86 code since it can run on desktop and Pro tablets and ignore ARM after a while citing the market for x86 is larger and the W8RT userbase is not close to Android or iOS.

Problem is games and stuff I already own won't work on the RT release. At least with the Pro you could in theory pop in your Xbox controller and play a couple games on Steam.

 

[Dominato3r]

And yet you hear stories about iOS devs getting rich off of just their iPad apps, but I don't remember hearing any similar stories about a Windows application developer.

Ummm. There are companies making millions, some even billions as Windows developers.

iOS and Android are big, but Windows is still the largest developer pool

 

[pelov]

Ummm. There are companies making millions, some even billions as Windows developers.

iOS and Android are big, but Windows is still the largest developer pool

Most of them are catering to big business and workstation, offering support as well. The difference here is that those same customers aren't going be using Win8 nor are those applications ever going to be offered through the Metro store.

As far as average Joe applications, it's pretty easy to find and install free alternatives in a Windows environment (outside of winRT Metro). Remember, these people have been doing that for years. What's to stop someone from just downloading an .exe for free after a 5 second Google search instead of paying for it via the Metro store? Android and iOS make you jump through hoops. Win8 x86?

 

[dagamer34]

And yet you hear stories about iOS devs getting rich off of just their iPad apps, but I don't remember hearing any similar stories about a Windows application developer.

Microsoft is trying to fill all niches with one OS. That's just not going to work very well. It is virtually guaranteed to succeed in the desktop market because of so many corporations being tied into Exchange/Office for a long time now. I have my doubts that they will become a serious competitor to Apple and Google. It will do better than WP7 that's for sure (which couldn't even beat the old Windows Mobile), but I don't see it working out.

That's kinda the whole point of the Windows Store. Make buying apps super easy from a centralized place, and people will do it in droves.

 

[dagamer34]

Supposed to not be hard but I'm betting most devs will make x86 code since it can run on desktop and Pro tablets and ignore ARM after a while citing the market for x86 is larger and the W8RT userbase is not close to Android or iOS.

Problem is games and stuff I already own won't work on the RT release. At least with the Pro you could in theory pop in your Xbox controller and play a couple games on Steam.

Focusing on x86 and ignoring ARM misses the point (and that's also not how developers think since almost no one writes raw x86 code anymore). It's Win32 (the old way) where you can sell an app on your website vs. WinRT (the new way) where Microsoft manages all of the payment stuff and DRM for you and you just have to write the app.

It is perilous to ignore the Windows Store. Now, no one is forcing to make an app that works on Windows RT, but much like the Mac App Store, people have been trained not to buy apps from anywhere else. And fighting the benefits of a centralized store is a loosing battle in the end.

Granted, if you are writing a game and can sell it through Steam, you'll probably do ok, but Steam as a distribution platform still pales in comparison to the potential reach of the Windows Store.

 

[ultimatebob]

How many of those were to OEM's, and how many to enterprise/consumers?

I also wonder how many of those people reformatted their Vista PC's and put a Windows XP or Linux image on them?

I bet that the number would be in the tens of millions, especially for PC's that were sold to businesses.

 

[reb0rn]

Wayyy overpriced, M$ will hit a wall and CEO is out of mind....