The Mighty Russian Economy.

[inachu]

So Red states have horrible economies because their Republican governments are completely full of graft and corruption?

WAs it Oklahoma or kansas who had the no tax or super low tax for one year to prove a point and they did......

Republicans always said lower taxes and watch the companies hire.


They never did hire but not sure if you can do much in just one year.

 

[rudder]

So Red states have horrible economies because their Republican governments are completely full of graft and corruption?

Can't speak for other states... here in Tennessee we are doing quite well. Other than being out for a troll, I am not sure why you are attempting to compare a local state government here in the U.S. with the government in Russia. Two very different dynamics in play. but really I should not even have to point that out.

 

[norseamd]

Very sure the country of Muscovy is worth far more than Apple or any other company.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Very sure the country of Muscovy is worth far more than Apple or any other company.

Next you'll be telling us people have intrinsic value.

 

[bshole]

Can't speak for other states... here in Tennessee we are doing quite well. Other than being out for a troll, I am not sure why you are attempting to compare a local state government here in the U.S. with the government in Russia. Two very different dynamics in play. but really I should not even have to point that out.

You do understand that Tennesse has the 15th lowest GDP per capita and the states doing even worse are a rogues gallery of red states? You were the one who stated that a poor state was due to graft and corruption by the governing class. I simply pointed out that all poor states in America are run by Republicans.

You are the one who has to deal with cognitive dissonance, not me.

 

[norseamd]

Next you'll be telling us people have intrinsic value.

No words just picture.

 

[zinfamous]

That's true of almost all nations. But I disagree anyway. When the Ayatollah sees the price of his country's one major export plummet, it's got to make him sweat. And that's good.

Isn't it the Saudi's forcing the price drop by flooding the market, just to shut down the prohibitively expensive shale operations that have been booming in North America?

 

[WelshBloke]

That would be a delicious irony for the history books.

If it happened they could strap Lenins pickled spinning corpse to a generator and power all of Moscow.

 

[zinfamous]

I am not sure why you are attempting to compare a local state government here in the U.S. with the government in Russia. Two very different dynamics in play. but really I should not even have to point that out.

It's like when people around here try to compare the national debt or the deficit to individual household debt.

 

[PottedMeat]

Isn't it the Saudi's forcing the price drop by flooding the market, just to shut down the prohibitively expensive shale operations that have been booming in North America?

maybe - with those assets you could do anything you wanted

 

[Spungo]

Isn't it the Saudi's forcing the price drop by flooding the market, just to shut down the prohibitively expensive shale operations that have been booming in North America?

It seems like production is always ramped up at the perfect time. Americans start talking about alternatives to oil -> price of oil crashes and the debate ends. Shale oil -> price crash and it ends.

It doesn't really matter. Very few of those shale oil companies are actually profitable.
List of companies taken from this list here: list
Using numbers from Google Finance, looking at annual free cash flow (cash from operations less capital expenditures)
Marathon Oil (MRO) - consistent positive cash flow (good)
Continental (CLR) - negative cash flow every year :thumbsdown:
Noble Energy (NBL) - negative cash flow most years :thumbsdown:
Southwestern (SWN) - negative cash flow every year :thumbsdown:
Anadarko (APC) - on the fence, some years are good and some bad
Pioneer (PXD) - negative cash flow most years :thumbsdown:
EOG (EOG) - negative cash flow most years :thumbsdown:
Occidental (OXY) - sometimes has positive cash flow
Concho (CXO) - negative cash flow every year :thumbsdown:
Range Resources (RRC) - negative cash flow every year :thumbsdown:
Hess (HES) - negative cash flow every year :thumbsdown:
Devon (DVN) - negative cash flow every year :thumbsdown:
Chesapeake (CHK) - horribly negative cash flow every year :thumbsdown: !!
Apache (APA) - negative cash for the past two years (thumbs down)


Now compare that with a real oil company. Exxon. Insanely good cash flow every year. Exxon will still exist 10 years from now. Most of those other ones are financed by cheap credit. Lower oil prices just bring the inevitable bankruptcies ahead a couple years.

edit
The forum blocked my post because it contained too many thumbs down. Even the forum can't deal with this many fake oil companies.

 

[ivwshane]

Isn't it the Saudi's forcing the price drop by flooding the market, just to shut down the prohibitively expensive shale operations that have been booming in North America?

Yes. Every time the price of oil goes up non OPEC nations gain market share. In order to regain their market share the Saudis had to stop going along with the other OPEC nations who have been using the high cost of oil to pay for their country's debt.


Oh and the bill didn't pass tonight

 

[Wreckem]

Oh the boom and bust of the highly volatile oil industry. Which is why the drill baby drill mentality has always been stupid.

This price "crash" is good for consumers. Bad for oil producers and oil producing states. The US should see a net benefit as consumers will have more to spend on things other than gas and that will likely outweigh the negative effect on US oil producers and oil producing states. Elsewhere in the world it will be a cluster fuck and will lead to government instability.

 

[Ventanni]

Elsewhere in the world it will be a cluster fuck and will lead to government instability.

Just what we need more of in the world today!

 

[Ventanni]

This just in:

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-military-assault-east-093417035.html

All this time Russia has been denying that they're not sending military hardware or troops to the region. The West hasn't been fooled, however. And now they come out and state that the Ukraine's freeze of payments to the rebel held areas constitutes ground for military intervention.

I pray cooler heads prevail.

 

[compuwiz1]

You do understand that Tennesse has the 15th lowest GDP per capita and the states doing even worse are a rogues gallery of red states? You were the one who stated that a poor state was due to graft and corruption by the governing class. I simply pointed out that all poor states in America are run by Republicans.

You are the one who has to deal with cognitive dissonance, not me.

Seriously? You are really, really deluded. What party has run Detroit into the ground? What party has run every major dilapidated city into the ground? I'll help you....the fucking democrats.

 

[rudder]

You do understand that Tennesse has the 15th lowest GDP per capita and the states doing even worse are a rogues gallery of red states? You were the one who stated that a poor state was due to graft and corruption by the governing class. I simply pointed out that all poor states in America are run by Republicans.

You are the one who has to deal with cognitive dissonance, not me.

You do understand that Tennessee has one of the lowest debts per capita? Tennessee's public pensions are ~95% funded. Compare that to California and Illinois. And we had a decent health insurance program for the poor and others who could not get insurance due to preexisting conditions... well until obama fucked it up.

Anyway... please point out where I said "a poor state was due to graft and corruption by the governing class." My post was clearly worded to suggest that many of Russia's economic problems stem from corruption at all levels of their (RUSSIA's)government and not because of a 13% flat tax.

 

[Atreus21]

Isn't it the Saudi's forcing the price drop by flooding the market, just to shut down the prohibitively expensive shale operations that have been booming in North America?

...you're totally right.

 

[shira]

Handful of years ago. Basically the clubs in St Petersburg and Moscow were some of the nicest and most expensive I've ever been to but only the mafia was in them. For 95% of Russians they could barely afford meat. I can't imagine much has changed. Their veterans were all over the streets drunk and begging, people smoked tobacco wrapped in newspaper and almost nobody could afford to pay for basic things like rent, utilities, or transportation. Walk into any apt building and the bottom floor was covered in bills that nobody paid and graffiti.

If things are really this bad for the general public in Russia, why is Putin so popular?

 

[ivwshane]

If things are really this bad for the general public in Russia, why is Putin so popular?

For the same reasons Americans vote for republicans but want liberal policies...propaganda and stupidity.

If I can find the poll I'll link it but basically it shows that voters disapprove of Obama but their top priorities just so happen to be his top priorities.

 

[K1052]

Seriously? You are really, really deluded. What party has run Detroit into the ground? What party has run every major dilapidated city into the ground? I'll help you....the fucking democrats.

The decline of domestic manufacturing must have had nothing to do with that.

How many of say the top 20 US cities are run by Republicans?

 

[fskimospy]

Can't speak for other states... here in Tennessee we are doing quite well. Other than being out for a troll, I am not sure why you are attempting to compare a local state government here in the U.S. with the government in Russia. Two very different dynamics in play. but really I should not even have to point that out.

Tennessee rates right around the middle of the pack for job growth, but it has one of the worst unemployment rates in the country.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Tennessee has high unemployment and is in the bottom half of state economies. Doing quite well is stretching it quite far. Maybe if you're comparing to Mississippi.

As far as why Putin is so popular? Culturally the Russians have always liked strong leaders. They're patriotic like Americans. You can pretty much explain his popularity for the same reason Bush was popular. Bush was perceived as a gun toting, American flag waving, macho president in one of the darkest times in recent history.

Normally only the rednecks of Russia would support Putin but just like Bush he is even getting normal Russians to support him as he waves the Russian flag and rides around on horseback without a shirt on. Russians are proud people.

Reality though is that most Russians are pretty poor. It has gotten better though. I think when I was there the average monthly income was something incredibly low like $300 a month. Today it's around $500-$600.

So when people talk about how much wealthier Russia is getting keep in mind that to the average Russian their income has DOUBLED in recent years but they're still pretty poor. They probably look at their progress though and think Putin is pretty fantastic.

If you ever meet a Russian traveling outside of Russia I can pretty much guarantee two things. Either they left Russia years ago and are working in another country or they have dirty money. No normal Russian can afford to travel.

 

[fleshconsumed]

So when people talk about how much wealthier Russia is getting keep in mind that to the average Russian their income has DOUBLED in recent years but they're still pretty poor. They probably look at their progress though and think Putin is pretty fantastic.

If you ever meet a Russian traveling outside of Russia I can pretty much guarantee two things. Either they left Russia years ago and are working in another country or they have dirty money. No normal Russian can afford to travel.

Perestroika was not that long ago. To most of the west Perestroika is synonymous with Glasnost and freedom of press and capitalism and all the other meaningless phrases that are so endearing to the average westerner's heart. That is not what Russians think of when they look back. They see their country tumbling from being the world power down to practically third world country. They remember pensions being insolvent and WW2 veterans begging for food on the streets. They remember 50,000% inflation, a loaf of bread went from 20 kopeek (cents) to 10000 rubles (dollars). They remember halving of the GDP at the same time. For 5 years in the aftermath of Perestroika Russian GDP declined by about 10% every year. After all said in done the GDP was cut in half. In 2008 the United States GDP declined by just 8% and it was labeled as "The Great Recession". Imagine how bad it was for Russians. For a typical Russian that time was equivalent to the Gread Depression of 1929 it was that bad. The Yeltsin's departure and Putin's take over signified both the end of a failed path and a new beginning at the same time. Around the same time the inflation was finally stabilizing and Russian GDP started growing in the 7-10% digits. I'm not going to attribute all of it to Putin's economic policies, but people generally like the government when times are good, and under Putin the times have been really really good compared to Gorbachev/Yeltsin era. At the same time Putin sought to reignite Russian pride and independence which only helped his popularity given the thousand years of Russian history. It's really no surprise that Putin is so popular in Russia, the only surprise is how everybody else is surprised by it.

As far as traveling, you're wrong on that one. The professional class has enough money to travel now. Granted, it is still a small portion of the entire population, but they do travel. They don't go on extravagant vacations to the touristy places that charge $200 a night, but they do travel around Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia. Arguably their vacations are more memorable than the average American vacation. Last summer I met 3 Russians on Safari in Kenya. They worked as accountants back in Moscow. That was just one leg of their multi-continent trip, I think they were flying somewhere to Asia shortly after that.

 

[doubledeluxe]

When I lived in western Europe I saw probably 50 Russians a day cruising through my city as tourists. We're talking the loud and obnoxious "new Russian" with the fur coat and bling bling. Not the intelligent, authentic, and nice Russians I met in Russia but mafia money families. I have yet to meet a single normal Russian in any of the dozens of countries I've been to but I do look forward to it. I just think we're a long way from that. I hope I'm wrong. I've spent months and years on all those continents and I'm batting a zero.