The most dangerous rogue state in the world.

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PowerMac4Ever

Banned
Dec 9, 2000
5,246
0
0
Eh, I really don't care what this jackass has to say. Will the average European start spitting on Americans when they see them walking down the street because of this? Naaah. This is just some fool trying to make some bucks. We have 'em here in a America too. We really shouldn't get too pissed about this. Besides, we have solace in the fact that he'll never make the big $$$ American papers pay.

Edit: Fixed up some stuff
 

FrancesBeansRevenge

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2001
2,181
0
0
Originally posted by: halik
the casuality report was from reuters and its been posted here too some time ago.

Please provide a link as I cannot seem to find the report you are referencing. Thanks.

 

Mangos

Senior member
Jun 13, 2001
536
0
0
"By means of background support ('logistical patronage') the Americans were very closely involved in secret supplies of arms to the Croats and Bosnian Muslims (which were illicit in the light of the arms embargo in force at the time). These supplies took the form of covert operations conducted through third party countries such as Iran and Turkey: the so-called `Croatian Pipeline' and the 'Black Flights' to Tuzla. These apparent double standards on the part of the United States can be explained in terms of the complex international relationships in place at the time. Following the Gulf War, the Arab world expected the Americans to support the Muslims. At the same time, the US did not wish to be seen to be in open conflict with European states over the Balkan situation. There were also various background considerations, such as internal political relationships. Both Congress and the media urged the government to support the Muslims."
Link

Yugoslavia vs. United States

 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
I suppose this guy's forgotten all about the Marshall Plan? If it weren't for the US, he'd be speaking Russian...
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Mangos
"By means of background support ('logistical patronage') the Americans were very closely involved in secret supplies of arms to the Croats and Bosnian Muslims (which were illicit in the light of the arms embargo in force at the time). These supplies took the form of covert operations conducted through third party countries such as Iran and Turkey: the so-called `Croatian Pipeline' and the 'Black Flights' to Tuzla. These apparent double standards on the part of the United States can be explained in terms of the complex international relationships in place at the time. Following the Gulf War, the Arab world expected the Americans to support the Muslims. At the same time, the US did not wish to be seen to be in open conflict with European states over the Balkan situation. There were also various background considerations, such as internal political relationships. Both Congress and the media urged the government to support the Muslims."
Link

Yugoslavia vs. United States


Yes lots of charges...This is probably the reason why we do want to join the ICC.

Please show where that the US intentionaly targeted a civilian target.


 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Some of you guys outta wake up and smell the coffee. Anti-American sentiment must be at an all-time high with no peaking in sight, and its not just Muslims either. Either people in the US quit kissin' ahole to "status quo" or terrorism here will probably become like Israel.

Our foreign policies have sucked for years and its just getting clearer and clearer that we use our wealth and military power to achieve our own self-interests without much regard to other nations or other peoples' interests, particularly when they aren't parallel to ours.

The 'fountain of integrity' isn't turned on very in this government and administration, and all of our wealth and military power will never plug all of the leaks that its causing until some serious issues are addressed.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: jjsole
Our foreign policies have sucked for years and its just getting clearer and clearer that we use our wealth and military power to achieve our own self-interests without much regard to other nations or other peoples' interests, particularly when they aren't parallel to ours.


GUess what, every country always acts in the their best interest first. This is nothing new or surprising.

We should worry when our foreign policy agrivates other countries, but the converse is also true. They should worry when their foreign policys agrivates us.

Quite frankly most people i talk are tired of us being the police force of the world. We would much rather have our troops home and not cleaning up other peoples problems on the other side of the world.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Out of curiousity, does the ICC guarantee full constitutional rights to the accused? For example, the Fifth amendment? My understanding is the right to avoid self incrimination does not exist.
 

Mangos

Senior member
Jun 13, 2001
536
0
0
Charrison,
Just like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia...we were fighting Iraq just to be the "police of the world."

Our soldiers faught to save lives, it had NOTHING to do with our oil interests! Ha...riiigghht.

The U.S. usually gets something out of it's "peacekeeping" missions.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Mangos
Hiroshima? Nagasaki?

This saved millions of Japanese and US lives.




Stuff got bombed, war is hell.
If europe could have taken care of their own problems, it would not be us being accused of warcrimes.


Why should we do peacekeeping for the UN if we are going to in turn be charged for warcrimes.


24000 bombs dropped in this operation
30 accidental targets.

That yeilds an error rate of 0.00125%

This is incredible accuracy compared to any other war.

[/quote]

We could have avoiding not killing anyone, by not going and letting europe take care of their own backyard.



We try to help others, we piss people off.
We ignore others, we piss people off.

It is a no win situation.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Mangos
Charrison,
Just like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia...we were fighting Iraq just to be the "police of the world."

Our soldiers faught to save lives, it had NOTHING to do with our oil interests! Ha...riiigghht.

The U.S. usually gets something out of it's "peacekeeping" missions.

Kuwait and Saudi are our trading partners. We helped them out because it was in our interests. It would be foolish to claim otherwise. Saudi and Kuwait ASKED us to come help them.

Things we got from Somalia - nada
Things we got from Bosnia -zilch
Things we got from Kosovo -zip


 

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison GUess what, every country always acts in the their best interest first. This is nothing new or surprising.
We should worry when our foreign policy agrivates other countries, but the converse is also true. They should worry when their foreign policys agrivates us.
Quite frankly most people i talk are tired of us being the police force of the world. We would much rather have our troops home and not cleaning up other peoples problems on the other side of the world.
I wish the rest of the world could (or would) take care of its own problems. But as we've seen time and again, they will do nothing. The Africans were incapable of stopping a genocide in Rwanda. The Europeans were unwilling to stop a genocide in the Yugloslav civil war and in Kosovo. China and the Arabs kinda like genocide, and Latin America is perfectly happy letting us be the big brother of the Western Hemisphere. That leaves us as the only people who give a damn about anyone else and who are willing to do more than piss and moan about it. If the Serbs killed every Albanian in Kosovo, Europe would do nothing. If the Arabs killed every Jew in Israel, all the Arabs would cheer and Europe would do nothing. If China invaded Taiwan, Europe would sigh with relief that another problem had been resolved and would silently go about its business. We are the first, last, and only hope for so many of these people. One can be sad or proud of this, or both, but it is the way the world is.
 

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: chutiya
US
Try the "quote" button or otherwise referencing what you're responding to so people have an idea what you're talking about.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Originally posted by: halik
heres the firstresult form google feelin lucky?

Originally posted by: Mangos
FrancesBeans,

here



Let me be the first (and Im sure, not the last) to tell you that both of those are incorrect. The new hampshire figures (both of those use their numbers) were found to be flawed and the total is no where near that.
 

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: Lucky Let me be the first (and Im sure, not the last) to tell you that both of those are incorrect. The new hampshire figures (both of those use their numbers) were found to be flawed and the total is no where near that.
As I recall they got their numbers from surveying newspaper articles and did a lot of things like counting the death tolls from different stories on the same incident as sepatate deaths. Even without multiple counting, they didn't verify anything. Where was that story about the villagers who claimed that bombers killed a bunch of people but when the reporters went there there were no graves, no mourners, no wounded, and not a single damaged structure?
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Originally posted by: Scipionix
Originally posted by: Lucky Let me be the first (and Im sure, not the last) to tell you that both of those are incorrect. The new hampshire figures (both of those use their numbers) were found to be flawed and the total is no where near that.
As I recall they got their numbers from surveying newspaper articles and did a lot of things like counting the death tolls from different stories on the same incident as sepatate deaths. Even without multiple counting, they didn't verify anything. Where was that story about the villagers who claimed that bombers killed a bunch of people but when the reporters went there there were no graves, no mourners, no wounded, and not a single damaged structure?


Something like that.

Link


Apparently based on the assumption that if the number of Afghan civilians killed by U.S. military action exceeds the number of Americans killed on September 11, the war is unjust or illegitimate, the press had been trumpeting a study by Marc Herold, a professor at the University of New Hampshire, claiming that as of December 2001, some 5,000 civilians had been killed by U.S. military action (he subsequently revised the figures downward to between 3,100 and 3,800).

As Michael Walzer has written in a piece in the spring issue of Dissent, such numbers are propaganda derived largely from Taliban sources. Indeed, an intensive Associated Press investigation indicates that the real number is much lower?500 to 600 through February 2002.



Now show us something else that supports your claims that we enjoy slaugherting people. :disgust:
 
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