The Most Important Vote of My Lifetime

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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. . . Says Roger Angell, Senior Editor at the New Yorker. This will be his 19th Presidential ballot. This man, who has always written clear, elegant prose packed with grace and insight, high intelligence and heart, well, I'ma share in full what he has to say:

I'm late weighing in on this election—late in more ways than one. Monday brought my ninety-sixth birthday, and, come November, I will be casting my nineteenth ballot in a Presidential election. My first came in 1944, when I voted for a fourth term for Franklin Delano Roosevelt, my Commander-in-Chief, with a mail-in ballot from the Central Pacific, where I was a sergeant in the Army Air Force. It was a thrilling moment for me, but not as significant as my vote on November 8th this year, the most important one of my lifetime. My country faces a danger unmatched in our history since the Cuban missile crisis, in 1962, or perhaps since 1943, when the Axis powers held most of Continental Europe, and Imperial Japan controlled the Pacific rim, from the Aleutians to the Solomon Islands, with the outcome of that war still unknown.

The first debate impends, and the odds that Donald Trump may be elected President appear to be narrowing. I will cast my own vote for Hillary Clinton with alacrity and confidence. From the beginning, her life has been devoted to public service and to improving the lives of children and the disadvantaged. She is intelligent, strong, profoundly informed, and extraordinarily experienced in the challenges and risks of our lurching, restlessly altering world and wholly committed to the global commonality. Her well-established connections to minorities may bring some better understanding of our urban and suburban police crisis. I have wished at times that she would be less impatient or distant when questions arrive about her past actions and mistakes, but I see no evidence to support the deep-rooted suspicions that often surround her. I don’t much like the high-level moneyed introductions and contacts surrounding the Clinton Foundation, but cannot find the slightest evidence that any of this has led to something much worse—that she or anyone has illegally profited or that any legislation tilted because of it. Nothing connects or makes sense; it beats me. Ms. Clinton will make a strong and resolute President—at last, a female leader of our own—and, in the end, perhaps a unifying one.

The Trump campaign has been like no other—a tumultuous and near-irresistible reality TV, in which Mr. Trump plays the pouty, despicable, but riveting central character. “I can’t stand him,” people are saying, “but you know, wow, he never stops.”

We know Mr. Trump’s early transgressions by heart: the female reporter who had “blood coming out of her whatever”; the mocking of a physically impaired reporter; the maligning of a judge because of his Mexican parents; the insulting dismissal of the grieving, Gold Star-parent Khans; the promised mass deportation of eleven million—or two million—undocumented immigrants, and more. Each of these remains a disqualifier for a candidate who will represent every one of us, should he win, but we now are almost willing to turn them into colorful little impairments. “Oh, that’s ol’ Donald—that’s the way he is.”

But I stick at a different moment—the lighthearted comment he made when, in early August, an admiring veteran presented him with a replica of his Purple Heart and Mr. Trump said, “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” What? Mr. Trump is saying he wishes that he had joined the armed forces somehow (he had a chance but skimmed out, like so many others of his time) and then had died or been scarred or maimed in combat? This is the dream of a nine-year-old boy, and it impugns the five hundred thousand young Americans who have died in combat in my lifetime, and the many hundreds of thousands more whose lives were altered or shattered by their wounds of war.

I take this personally, representing as I do the last sliver of the sixteen million Americans who served in the military in my war. I had an easy time of it, and was never in combat, but, even so, as I have written, I experienced the loss of more than twenty close friends, classmates, and companions of my youth, who remain young and fresh in memory. I have named them in previous pieces, along with some wounded survivors, like my friend Gardner, an infantry captain who landed at Normandy Beach and fought at Hürtgen Forest and Aachen and the Battle of the Bulge, was twice wounded, had five Campaign stars, and received numerous decorations, including the French Croix de Guerre, but who for the rest of his life would fall into wary silence whenever a thunderstorm announced itself. Also my late brother-in-law Neil, who lay wounded on the field for two days during the battle of Belfort Gap, and who hobbled with a cane all his life, and with two canes near the end. Every American of my generation can supply stories like these, and once learned and tried to forget that, worldwide, seventy million people died in our war.


Mr. Trump was born in 1946, just after this cataclysmic event of our century, and came of age in the nineteen-sixties, when the implications and harshness of war were being debated as never before, but little or none of this seems to have penetrated for him—a candidate who wants to give nuclear arms to Japan and South Korea and wishes to remain unclear about his own inclinations as commander of our nuclear triad. This makes me deeply doubt his avowed concern for our veterans or that he has any sense of their sufferings.

Reservations like this are predictable coming from someone my age, but I will persist, hoping to catch the attention of a few much younger voters, and of those who have not yet made up their minds about this election. I do so by inviting them to share an everyday experience—the middle-of-the-night or caught-in-traffic moment when we find our hovering second thoughts still at hand and waiting: Why did I ever?… What if?… Now I can see… and come to that pause, the unwelcome reconsideration that quiets us and makes us mature. It’s the same thought that Judge Learned Hand wanted posted in every school and church and courthouse in the land: “I beseech ye … think that we may be mistaken.”

Mr. Trump has other drawbacks I haven’t mentioned: his weird fondness for Vladimir Putin; his destruction of the lives and hopes of small investors and contractors unlucky enough to have been involved in his business dealings; his bonkers five-year “birther” campaign, now withdrawn, though without accountability—but never mind all this, for now.

Mr. Trump is endlessly on record as someone who will not back down, who cannot appear to pause or lose. He is a man who must win, stay on the attack, and who thinks, first and last, “How will I look?” This is central, and what comes after it, for me, at times, is concern for what it must be like for anyone who, facing an imperative as dark and unforgiving as this, finds only the narcissist’s mirror for reassurance.

If Donald Trump wins this election, his nights in the White House will very soon resemble those of President Obama. After he bids an early goodnight to his family, he sits alone while he receives and tries to take in floods of information from almost innumerable national and international sources, much of it classified or top secret. His surroundings are stately, but the room is shadowed and silent. There are bits of promising news here and there, but always more bloodshed, sudden alarms, and unexpected lurking dangers. The import of the news is often veiled or contradictory, or simply impenetrable. The night wears on, and may contain brief hours of sleep. There’s time to tweet. A new day is arriving, and with it the latest rush of bad news—another police shooting out West, another suicide bomber in Yemen, and other urgent briefings from a world already caught up in the morning’s difficult events. He needs to respond, but the beginning of this President’s response is always reliably at hand: How will I look?

I, too, reject the smear campaign long waged against Hillary Clinton, and will cast my vote for her, as Roger Angell put it, with alacrity and confidence, for, yes, this is the most important election of my lifetime as well.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Since around 2000, I've also felt that every election is increasingly more important of my lifetime. I don't think it's hyperbole.

In 2004, we had a president who had led us into Iraq for really no reason at all. It was not going well, and he was absolutely resolute in his conviction. Gotta 'stay the course' no matter what. He and his cronies even thought they would actually win the 2006 mid-terms. That's how delusional they were. Dick Cheney continues to troll today.

In 2008, we had a candidate who was clearly itching to not only expand our presence in Iraq, but also possibly go into Iran. And then there was his VP candidate, a clueless and complete moron. Since the primary candidate was an older guy who had taken a lot of abuse in his life, this couldn't be ignored.

In 2012, a guy who wanted to turn back the clock to the crap that had gotten us into the 2008 financial crisis AKA the Great Recession. Didn't give a shit about or even realize there were people out there making less than $250,000 a year. He basically called them leeches. Unemployment was still high, but improving. He claimed all we had to do was lower taxes on the upper class and the jobs would come raining down.

In 2016, holy shit. That's all that has to be said. The Republicans have basically created and encouraged a culture of proud ignorance that believes in things like birtherism.

I don't actually consider myself a Democrat, but I find them much closer to the center these days. The Republican Party continues to move to the right, while think Dems have stayed relatively stable in their positions.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,281
9,365
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Since around 2000, I've also felt that every election is increasingly more important of my lifetime. I don't think it's hyperbole.

In 2004, we had a president who had led us into Iraq for really no reason at all. It was not going well, and he was absolutely resolute in his conviction. Gotta 'stay the course' no matter what. He and his cronies even thought they would actually win the 2006 mid-terms. That's how delusional they were. Dick Cheney continues to troll today.

In 2008, we had a candidate who was clearly itching to not only expand our presence in Iraq, but also possibly go into Iran. And then there was his VP candidate, a clueless and complete moron. Since the primary candidate was an older guy who had taken a lot of abuse in his life, this couldn't be ignored.

In 2012, a guy who wanted to turn back the clock to the crap that had gotten us into the 2008 financial crisis AKA the Great Recession. Didn't give a shit about or even realize there were people out there making less than $250,000 a year. He basically called them leeches. Unemployment was still high, but improving. He claimed all we had to do was lower taxes on the upper class and the jobs would come raining down.

In 2016, holy shit. That's all that has to be said. The Republicans have basically created and encouraged a culture of proud ignorance that believes in things like birtherism.

Well said on every point! :thumbsupiconneededhere:
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
Why is voting in the election with the worse choices the most important? I'm including Nixon, Reagan and, Bush.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,281
9,365
146
Why is voting in the election with the worse [sic] choices the most important? I'm including Nixon, Reagan and, Bush.
Trumps on a whole 'nother level of unbelievable ignorance mixed with unshakeablly smug arrogance. Nixon actually knew politics and diplomacy. Reagan did a lot of damage to our country, and Bush in one fell swoop (Iraq) even more, but, without much question, I'd . . . shudder . . . vote for either if it meant denying Trump the Oval Office. Believe me, I do not say that lightly.

This is the most important election in my lifetime as well. Also, it's worst, not worse. Bad, worse, worst. Believe me, you have plenty of company right on this forum in seemingly not knowing this. <shrug>

Finally, implicit in your statement is that you believe the smear campaign against the Clintons. Roger Angell and I, for two, do not.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
If anyone ever wondered "What's so bad about narcissism?" the last line in that article should give them something to think about.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,035
5,338
136
I've been thinking the same thing as Balt. Every year someone always trots out the "most important election since...." But over the past few elections it seems to ring more true each time. This year clearly being absolute worst, without a doubt.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
Why must a narcissist not be President?
At all costs?

If anyone ever wondered "What's so bad about narcissism?" the last line in that article should give them something to think about.

The line you reference tries to explain, but it really does not.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Finally, implicit in your statement is that you believe the smear campaign against the Clintons. Roger Angell and I, for two, do not.

Make it three.

Trump is a dangerous charlatan & symptomatic of even more dangerous headsets that Repubs have condoned & nurtured among their base.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,281
9,365
146
Why must a narcissist not be President?
At all costs?

The line you reference tries to explain, but it really does not.

Maybe you should read this relatively short article again. His last line references this, which Mr. Angell wrote a couple of paragraphs earlier:

Mr. Trump is endlessly on record as someone who will not back down, who cannot appear to pause or lose. He is a man who must win, stay on the attack, and who thinks, first and last, “How will I look?” This is central, and what comes after it, for me, at times, is concern for what it must be like for anyone who, facing an imperative as dark and unforgiving as this, finds only the narcissist’s mirror for reassurance.

If you still don't understand why this narcissist, this shallow, thin-skinned, rich boy ignoramus narcissist shouldn't become President, I can't help you further.
 
Reactions: MongGrel

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
Why must a narcissist not be President?
At all costs?

The line you reference tries to explain, but it really does not.

To be more precise, the last 2 lines:

A new day is arriving, and with it the latest rush of bad news—another police shooting out West, another suicide bomber in Yemen, and other urgent briefings from a world already caught up in the morning’s difficult events. He needs to respond, but the beginning of this President’s response is always reliably at hand: How will I look?

The context of the whole article helps as well.

To answer your question, a narcissist would make a bad president because they would prioritize their own self image over everything else, including what is best for the nation.

Take the example of George H.W. Bush. He knew raising taxes after promising not to with the famous line "Read my lips no new taxes" would be very unpopular. He did it anyway for the benefit of the economy. He put the nation's economy over his own self image because he believed it to be more important to do the right thing than to look good doing the wrong thing. It cost him a second term.

Do you think Trump would put the nation's economy ahead of his own popularity? He would be more likely to rationalize his actions by telling himself that re-election would be more important than making the right choice because if he is re-elected he will have 4 more years to bestow his greatness on America.
 
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flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
What's so bad about narcissm (and being a sociopath) is the inability to take responsibility and/or to take responsibility and admit (even: "see") having made a wrong decision. A sociopath/narcissist "CAN" only make good ("the best") decisions (in his warped mind), and even if they turn out total disasters (say, military decisions, whatever) he, Trump, would not even be able to accept the reality that it was because of his decision.

Furthermore, a narcissist/sociopath "lives through" and can actually only exist through others. But others only fullfill the role of pawns who merely serve to putting him in the spotlight of greatness, for example through admiration like in a cult, or with manipulation (many leaders/cult founders are sociopaths), there is no compassion or any other feeling involved, he doesn't really "care" about any other person.

I am sure there'd be more to list...but just combine the two things above, and imagine this person making decision that affect 350 million people.

** The above and the general notion that he is a sociopath is fortunately not just talk, I think it's now really widely accepted. He had proven MANY times already what he thinks about [insert whatever demographics here], he insulted basically everyone, from women, to vets to the disabled. Can you (or any normal person) imagine openly mocking a disabled person, ON TV, in front of millions of people? I learned that this is not appropriate/immature when I was, like, 8 years old? Only a sociopath would behave like this due to this complete disregard for others.
 
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bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Not at all surprised by either the position of the OP or that of the author of the referenced article.

If Trump wins it will be amazing to read the comments in here afterwards though, should that happen I will be sure to swing by for a good laugh.
 
Reactions: x26

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,579
1,629
136
Not at all surprised by either the position of the OP or that of the author of the referenced article.

If Trump wins it will be amazing to read the comments in here afterwards though, should that happen I will be sure to swing by for a good laugh.

Spoken like a true conservative, as childish as ever...

As to the topic, I figure that she's still standing after everything conservatives have thrown at her over the last two decades while they have completely gone off of the rails. No matter what they have tried, she's still here and going strong.

As a small "i" independent who has voted for both Republicans and Democrats (and other parties), she has my vote this round.
 
Reactions: MongGrel

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I'm curious as to what those that think that Trump is the worst ever will actually do? He's an unbelievably bad candidate imo but that's exactly why he has the support he does - not racism, ignorance, fear mongering, etc but a desire to disrupt the status quo in DC by whatever means possible.

What will Trump do or not do in your opinion that makes this the most important vote ever?
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
I'm curious as to what those that think that Trump is the worst ever will actually do? He's an unbelievably bad candidate imo but that's exactly why he has the support he does - not racism, ignorance, fear mongering, etc but a desire to disrupt the status quo in DC by whatever means possible.

What will Trump do or not do in your opinion that makes this the most important vote ever?
It's the Supreme Court. He would lock in a solid, right-wing majority for probably 20 years, maybe more. The winner of this election will literally decide the direction of the court within the first 100 days. Plus, three other justices are about 80 years old (2 liberal, one moderate conservative).
 
Reactions: MongGrel and Blanky

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,579
1,629
136
I'm curious as to what those that think that Trump is the worst ever will actually do? He's an unbelievably bad candidate imo but that's exactly why he has the support he does - not racism, ignorance, fear mongering, etc but a desire to disrupt the status quo in DC by whatever means possible.

What will Trump do or not do in your opinion that makes this the most important vote ever?

This is soooo easy...

My problem with Trump is that I have no idea where he stands on pretty much anything, nor do I think does he. He basically responds to stimuli based on how it will make him look, that's about it. He lets no perceived slight pass and feels slighted by just about everyone who disagrees with him. He has the intellectual depth of a almost-dry mud puddle (and I'm being generous). He does not work well with others, especially in the sharing of power and thus would not respect the legislative and judicial branches of our government. He has foreign business ties that have not been disclosed, some with Russia. He is used to making decisions on his own based on what it will do for himself, not others (as his many bankruptcies and failures to pay for services.shows). As President he would do the exact same thing because the one thing Trump is all about is Trump. I'll stop at this point and leave some points for others...lol! Regarding popularity, that Trump is so popular is both the fault of the parties with their failures of leadership (more so the Republicans, IMO) and those who now want to vote for the crazy guy to blow the country up because reasons.

It takes two to tango, ya kno...
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
Trump, would not even be able to accept the reality

So the condition necessitates delusions.
This is consistent with his promises... delusions of grandeur.
This is consistent with his inability, historically, to lay out plans.

He is essentially being condemned as being incapable of acting as a rationale person.

For all the time Trump has spent in the spotlight, this is the first time I've read a condemnation explained beyond petty insults and partisan smear. I will be watching for this in the debate(s).
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I'm curious as to what those that think that Trump is the worst ever will actually do? He's an unbelievably bad candidate imo but that's exactly why he has the support he does - not racism, ignorance, fear mongering, etc but a desire to disrupt the status quo in DC by whatever means possible.

What will Trump do or not do in your opinion that makes this the most important vote ever?

I can't imagine "what's the worst that can happen" is a question asked much about mcdonalds fry cook applicants, much less the presidency.

But if you're asking anyway, he'll be a degenerate manchild with considerable executive privileges (expanded as of late). Not sure if you've ever seen some kid throw a fit at who knows what, but now imagine one who has the world's largest military at his command.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
I don't understand the notion why everything that is perceived as wrong with politics/america/etc must be fixed during this presidential term. There is no concept of patience or reasonableness anymore. The average american will get 15 opportunities to pick a US president within their lifetime. Most people own less cars and houses in their lifetimes! If I'm shopping for a car or a house against a deadline and the right choice isn't there, you make the reasonable choice that will hold you until you have to shop again. You cause cause decades of harm by going with the nuclear option just because your perfect option wasn't there.

Sigh...I just don't understand WTF is going on
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
I don't understand the notion why everything that is perceived as wrong with politics/america/etc must be fixed during this presidential term. There is no concept of patience or reasonableness anymore. The average american will get 15 opportunities to pick a US president within their lifetime.

Haven't the past 8 years been proof enough that voting for President does not change, lead, or direct this nation towards a new direction?
It's simply not enough of an impact to "win" an election, and people have been waiting for a long time. Stagnation breeds unrest. Because change that is not done through politics is instead done through force.

Sigh...I just don't understand WTF is going on

Obama's election cycle (06 and 08) saw the biggest turnover in election history. It wasn't enough.
If the backlash against Bush for Iraq couldn't do it, nothing can.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Spoken like a true conservative, as childish as ever....

you guys and your perceived superiority and importance are a riot...keep em coming as last time I checked the most important thing in my life is the perception of my posts and or worth on this board...lol.

Again I will love to stop by should he win and watch folks like those contributing in this thread thinking anyone truly cares about their opinions on the matter freak out over it.
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
Trump is a know-nothing who isn't really curious about the topics he opines on and would lead legislation on (clear as day during the forum a couple weeks ago and we'll see more of it tomorrow). Hillary is an accomplished liar with, clearly, a track record of mediocrity. She is also more dishonest about the problems facing the nation, and you can see that in the way she responds to police protests, for example. She will never stop pandering, never say "wait a minute, let's look at what actually happened".

This election is a further tearing apart of the country. The left and right are further apart than they've ever been in my life and it will only get worse. I still believe Trump is the fuck you response to the democrats nominating Clinton. The left has known for years that the right hates her, but they chose her anyway. They were never interested in a candidate who appealed to the entire nation. They chose hillary in part because the right hates her. And in response what better way to say screw you than to put somebody like Trump in office?

Nobody can tell me that either candidate is the best each party has to offer. The nomination system is broken.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Trump is a know-nothing who isn't really curious about the topics he opines on and would lead legislation on (clear as day during the forum a couple weeks ago and we'll see more of it tomorrow). Hillary is an accomplished liar with, clearly, a track record of mediocrity. She is also more dishonest about the problems facing the nation, and you can see that in the way she responds to police protests, for example. She will never stop pandering, never say "wait a minute, let's look at what actually happened".

This election is a further tearing apart of the country. The left and right are further apart than they've ever been in my life and it will only get worse. I still believe Trump is the fuck you response to the democrats nominating Clinton. The left has known for years that the right hates her, but they chose her anyway. They were never interested in a candidate who appealed to the entire nation. They chose hillary in part because the right hates her. And in response what better way to say screw you than to put somebody like Trump in office?

Nobody can tell me that either candidate is the best each party has to offer. The nomination system is broken.

This... the only reason this is the most important election of our lifetime is because it shows just how broken and divided and how awful things have become.

Both candidates are the worst possible options from their respective parties. The funny part is that the party of the "people" fail to select the candidate that resonates with the folks they are trying to appeal to (working class) and instead picked the one which is despised possibly the most by this demographic, whereas the party of the perceived Rich/Elite have selected a candidate that the working class can get behind but the rich and elite can't stomach...talk about twisted.

And on top of that the supposed more "presidential" of the pair is starting things off by stooping to childish behavior by inviting a blowhard idiot to sit front and center of the debates....

Monday will be fun
 
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