The Nail In Obamacare's Coffin

[ch33zw1z]

I'm not going to pretend I know everything about this situation. But I can tell you one thing, since 2010, my premiums for a family of 4 have almost doubled:

2010: family of four was $420

2013: Family of four is $720

This is a BCBS PPO Plus via Anthem, dental for four, vision for 3. We chose the Plus because there's no co-pays. Overall we're happy with the health insurance, the Dental is through Cigna and could be a little better, but it's not terrible.

It's enrollment time again, ready for another $100 increase? Sure, why not.

 

[boomerang]

So once again, who gives a shit besides partisan hacks?

Evidently you give a shit. You're spinning around like a whirligig in several threads right now trying to do some kind of misguided damage control.

I for one only care about healthcare coverage improving and our standard of living increasing.

To put it bluntly, you don't fucking live here. You've chosen to live in another country. Your real reason for wanting Obamacare is based in pure selfishness. You resent what it costs you from a health insurance perspective to return to the states for a visit. You stated this is another thread. To get what you want, everybody else has got to feel some pain. Fuck.that.shit.

 

[AViking]

Evidently you give a shit. You're spinning around like a whirligig in several threads right now trying to do some kind of misguided damage control.

To put it bluntly, you don't fucking live here. You've chosen to live in another country. Your real reason for wanting Obamacare is based in pure selfishness. You resent what it costs you from a health insurance perspective to return to the states for a visit. You stated this is another thread. To get what you want, everybody else has got to feel some pain. Fuck.that.shit.

I'm an American and I pay my taxes. I get just as much a say as you. Even if I live over here for a few years.

Not my fault that the US economy is in the dumpster right now but I can look forward to things getting better. The American healthcare system is a giant joke and although I think the ACA is a far cry from what is needed it's at least a step in the right direction.

 

[Matt1970]

Why the fuck would anyone want to keep these shitty insurance plans?

The new law will provide better coverage for around the same price.

Lots of these plans being cancelled are those that charged a premium to cover people with preexisting conditions. The law nullifies these policies. Others had insurance that only had limited coverage. The law does away with all of that.

So once again, who gives a shit besides partisan hacks? I for one only care about healthcare coverage improving and our standard of living increasing.

But we were told that if we liked our insurance we could keep it AND that the average payer would see a $2500 decrease in premiums. When are the lies going to start having consequences?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Why the fuck would anyone want to keep these shitty insurance plans?

The new law will provide better coverage for around the same price.

I know one person who was dropped by his company and to get the same coverage from the Exchange is significantly more. He is late 20s, very athletic, and in great health. He said he's not going to buy any.

And regardless, you can spin all you want but the fact of the matter is, Obama did say we could keep whatever insurance we already had. Whether he lied or spoke out of ignorance, he did say it. The left cheerleaders (well, except for you apparently) are eerily silent on this latest development. I'm not surprised -- I'm sure they're all huddled in a corner somewhere trying to spin it in such a way that the Republicans are to blame.

But we were told that if we liked our insurance we could keep it AND that the average payer would see a $2500 decrease in premiums. When are the lies going to start having consequences?

Lies only have consequences if Republicans are the ones fibbing, apparently.

 

[Exterous]

Here are the minimum standards

1. Must cover a strong set of comprehensive benefits

2. Provide good value by limiting the amount of money paid out of pocket

404 Outrage not found.

Come on - that's a shallow interpretation at best. Could you find more vague definition? Was it too hard to spend 10 seconds googling what actually comprised 'comprehensive benefits'?

Here - I'll spoon feed you by providing part of the definition of 'comprehensive care':
Ambulatory services, Hospitalization, Emergency care, Maternity care, mental heal and substance treatment, perscription drug, rehabilitative services, labs, preventative services and children's dental and vision care.

It seems you think that plans that don't include those items are 'shitty'

Yes I am outraged that sub-par insurance plans that were screwing consumers are now not allowed! This is unacceptable! Bring back the shitty insurance plans!

Yet absolutely nothing says that the previous plans were, indeed, shitty. Likely some were but also likely is that many were tailored to the needs of the person.

Why does a single man now need to be forced into a plan that offers maternity care? Why are people without children dependants being forced into plans that offer dental and vision coverage for children?

But maybe you consider 'shitty' to mean "Not being forced to pay for something you can't use"

 

[AViking]

I think it's a stretch to say that single men are being forced to pay for maternity leave and people without children are being forced to have dental and vision for their children.

I think this is really where insurance plans and single payer come to a head.

In Sweden I pay taxes that cover all those things. That means that when I have children I have full coverage for them. I get paternity leave. Maternity leave. $150 per month daycare. If I need mental healthcare I got it. Emergency room and hospital stays. Etc.

In the USA we think we can get cheaper coverage by itemizing things off the bill. However every other first world country has shown that if you collectively cover your population healthcare is cheaper. This idea that you can get by with a $100 per month shitty plan and save up for those emergencies has been shown to not work. If you saved $300 a month for 10 years you would be out that in one hospital visit. You would have to borrow money to make up the difference. Maybe go bankrupt.

The fault in ACA is that it still bowed to insurance companies and didn't go single payer. Should be interesting how it plays out. Will Americans go full retard and go back to what we had or will they go single payer? Hell, maybe we'll come up with an even better system that hasn't been thought of yet.

I for one find our healthcare ridiculously stupid and expensive. Something needed to be done. Rather than complain so much about ACA maybe you should come up with a better solution and contact your representative?

 

[boomerang]

I'm an American and I pay my taxes. I get just as much a say as you. Even if I live over here for a few years.

Not my fault that the US economy is in the dumpster right now but I can look forward to things getting better. The American healthcare system is a giant joke and although I think the ACA is a far cry from what is needed it's at least a step in the right direction.

It's a huge misstep. Huge. Ginormous. Epically wrong in virtually every way possible. All the information pouring in right now is not to be ignored, it's to be acknowledged and acted upon.

Democrats, under Obama, will not admit that his signature program is fatally flawed. They could have passed what they desired because Obamacare passed without one single, solitary Republican vote. They could have passed anything... They, instead passed this. They didn't even know what was in it. But they are not going to stand by and watch their arch enemies the Republicans, change it. One year delay? Get fucked was the answer. It doesn't take much imagination to know how a proposal to actually change the law is going to be received.

So here we are between a rock and a hard place. Dem's won't change it on their own and Republicans are not going to be allowed to. But it needs to be changed and in a big, big way.

You want to see the U.S. economy improve? We all do. But government taking control of one sixth of the economy in this manner is not going to improve the economy. People are losing their jobs over this law. People are having their hours cut because of this law. People are having their health care plan canceled and the replacement they are being offered costs more not for more or better coverage, but for shifted coverage. Menopausal women are required to carry maternity coverage to cite one example.

This legislation is not a step in the right direction it's a step from which there is no return. Many of us knew this in the beginning. We were dismissed as fanatical racists.

The easy route, the Democrat route and the route you obviously endorse is to stay the course and hope for the best. No tough decisions, just let it play out. It's better than what we had is the cry. It's not. It's the wrong solution at the wrong time for a problem that was nowhere near as pressing as some of our others. Jobs. Anybody remember those?

 

[nehalem256]

Here - I'll spoon feed you by providing part of the definition of 'comprehensive care':
Ambulatory services, Hospitalization, Emergency care, Maternity care, mental heal and substance treatment, perscription drug, rehabilitative services, labs, preventative services and children's dental and vision care.

How would I, as a man, who has never even drank alcohol manage to survive without that coverage?:hmm:

 

[nehalem256]

Responsible people who have had healthcare will die because of this law. This is a failure on a scale that the USA has, to my knowledge, never before seen.

Obama lied, people died? :twisted:

 

[halik]

Why the fuck would anyone want to keep these shitty insurance plans?

The new law will provide better coverage for around the same price.

Lots of these plans being cancelled are those that charged a premium to cover people with preexisting conditions. The law nullifies these policies. Others had insurance that only had limited coverage. The law does away with all of that.

So once again, who gives a shit besides partisan hacks? I for one only care about healthcare coverage improving and our standard of living increasing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#Logical_fallacy

 

[AViking]

I hear your frustration. What do you propose?

The issue is that every other first world country has a working healthcare system that doesn't bankrupt their population and provides coverage for everyone. I live in one of those countries. Girlfriend was just in the hospital overnight. Total cost for the Emergency room, ambulance, cat scan, doctors, nurses, specialists, and a night in the hospital?

$12.56 for the room
$62.78 for the rest

It's night and day over here. The US needs to change. I prefer single payer but I am willing to see how ACA goes before throwing in the flag. After all what we had was atrociously bad.

We have been brainwashed into thinking that less taxes is better. Taxes are great if they are spent properly. The only people who lower taxes truly benefit in the USA are the rich. Hell my investment portfolio makes out like a bandit since the taxes are so low.

Come election time lets see how ACA is doing.

 

[Doppel]

Why the fuck would anyone want to keep these shitty insurance plans?

The new law will provide better coverage for around the same price.

Lots of these plans being cancelled are those that charged a premium to cover people with preexisting conditions. The law nullifies these policies. Others had insurance that only had limited coverage. The law does away with all of that.

So once again, who gives a shit besides partisan hacks? I for one only care about healthcare coverage improving and our standard of living increasing.

Watching you flail is a true delight. Now you refuse to admit that Obama got this wrong and deride those asking the question as partisan hacks. CBS news this morning reported 2M+ people have lost their health insurance. But why should they care? Although they were told they could keep them they must be partisan hacks.

You are the most profound partisan hack in this thread. Everybody sees it.

 

[Doppel]

I hear your frustration. What do you propose?

The issue is that every other first world country has a working healthcare system that doesn't bankrupt their population and provides coverage for everyone. I live in one of those countries. Girlfriend was just in the hospital overnight. Total cost for the Emergency room, ambulance, cat scan, doctors, nurses, specialists, and a night in the hospital?

$12.56 for the room
$62.78 for the rest

It's night and day over here. The US needs to change. I prefer single payer but I am willing to see how ACA goes before throwing in the flag. After all what we had was atrociously bad.

We have been brainwashed into thinking that less taxes is better. Taxes are great if they are spent properly. The only people who lower taxes truly benefit in the USA are the rich. Hell my investment portfolio makes out like a bandit since the taxes are so low.

Come election time lets see how ACA is doing.

Again.

Again.

You move the goal post. This thread began about people forcibly losing health plans and you continue to scream around that matter by bringing in other ones. You aren't fooling anybody. See halik's wiki link.

 

[fskimospy]

Is this thread serious?

This is not only a good thing, but a lot of it is the whole point behind the law. The policies are being cancelled are ones that allowed for exclusions for pre-existing conditions, had lifetime insurance caps, etc were the horrible things that the ACA was created to eliminate.

This is a feature, not a bug.

I do agree that Obama's statement about being able to keep your insurance was at best inaccurate and at worst dishonest, but I am hardly sad that insurance plans with provisions that everyone agrees are horrible are going away.

Also, I wouldn't sweat the ACA signup rate just yet:

 

[Doppel]

Is this thread serious?

This is not only a good thing, but a lot of it is the whole point behind the law. The policies are being cancelled are ones that allowed for exclusions for pre-existing conditions, had lifetime insurance caps, etc were the horrible things that the ACA was created to eliminate.

This is a feature, not a bug.

I do agree that Obama's statement about being able to keep your insurance was at best inaccurate and at worst dishonest, but I am hardly sad that insurance plans with provisions that everyone agrees are horrible are going away.

Also, I wouldn't sweat the ACA signup rate just yet:

No, the thread is not serious. Obama was not serious when he said it, the media isn't serious in covering it, and those who have this choice taken away (even though grandfathering never means you can't choose from current options) are not serious either.

 

[fskimospy]

No, the thread is not serious. Obama was not serious when he said it, the media isn't serious in covering it, and those who have this choice taken away (even though grandfathering never means you can't choose from current options) are not serious either.

The media isn't serious in covering it? The OP includes a link from the Chicago Tribune.

Regardless, eliminating those two features of insurance plans was one of the primary purposes of this law. That was the whole point.

 

[Exterous]

I think it's a stretch to say that single men are being forced to pay for maternity leave and people without children are being forced to have dental and vision for their children.

I don't think its a stretch to say that at all since thats whats happening. Now it may happen in other areas as well (ie: property taxes going to schools) but that doesn't mean you aren't paying for services you can't use

I hear your frustration. What do you propose?

We could address the actual cost of health care instead of spreading the rising costs over more people by bundling in services they can't use. The problem there is its a much larger issue with causes spread all over the place all the way over into the cost of higher education

 

[K1052]

Apparently few around have ever witnessed the end of an open enrollment period from an HR perspective. You get nothing returned for months then everybody rushes in the last week.

 

[diesbudt]

On top of all these problems with the website, stupidity of the program that was in no way read (and needs reworked) and add in the failure company who put the site together:

What I find funny though is, new insurance accounts that cover pre-existing conditions from the ACA are expensive as hell. I mean, that alone is almost a 50-75% premium increase if you didn't have it.

How many people who NEED Affordable health care AND have a pre-existing condition can even afford insurance FOR SAID condition?

 

[WackyDan]

Isn't this thread kinda worthless until the deadline to have insurance or pay the penalty?

One man who did successfully go through the enrollment and at the end chose to decline an exchange plan because he wanted to shop around more has already received a bill from the IRS for $95.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2735...led-95-after-calling-into-obamacare-exchange/

And yeah... it is a Fox link - got over it.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Let's say Obama wanted to make driving safer so he passed a law requiring all vehicles to have a breathalyzer built into the steering wheel. It would sense alcohol level and not start if over the limit.

Obama: those with existing vehicles will be grandfathered in. You can keep your current car.

Americans: Good thing I am grandfathered in and don't have to buy a new car.

Obama: I meant you can keep your existing vehicle as long as it meets our new safety standards. You need to have your car retrofitted with the breathalyzer or get a new car.

Americans: Fuck.

 

[PokerGuy]

One man who did successfully go through the enrollment and at the end chose to decline an exchange plan because he wanted to shop around more has already received a bill from the IRS for $95.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2735...led-95-after-calling-into-obamacare-exchange/

And yeah... it is a Fox link - got over it.

We haven't even scratched the surface yet of the disaster that is being unleashed here. Think about it: the IRS and other similar government agencies have had a hundred years to get their act together and are pretty much a disaster. Now we're watching a whole new level of disaster unfold.

Kind of comical to watch.

Obummercare: bringing the DMV experience to your healthcare!

 

[xBiffx]

Apparently few around have ever witnessed the end of an open enrollment period from an HR perspective. You get nothing returned for months then everybody rushes in the last week.

What company has open enrollment that lasts months? From my experience its a matter of weeks. A month max.

 

[diesbudt]

We haven't even scratched the surface yet of the disaster that is being unleashed here. Think about it: the IRS and other similar government agencies have had a hundred years to get their act together and are pretty much a disaster. Now we're watching a whole new level of disaster unfold.

Kind of comical to watch.

Obummercare: bringing the DMV experience to your healthcare!

Since they can only take the money from a tax refund, I would LOVE if when he files his taxes he added in another square that granted him an extra 95 dollars to his refund in an attempt to refuse to pay it.